Eastern Orthodox approach to theology

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So has anyone’s else here looked into Eastern Orthodox apologetics. They seem to take a disliking to any kind of formal defense through scripture or even history and favor a more Spirit-led approach. Maybe I am misrepresenting them but does anyone here know why that is or when this kind of dislike of overly formal apologetics stopped for them (or started for Roman Catholics)? Particularly, the thoughts of Eastern converts to or from catholicism would help. Thanks! (Also their view of evangelization is a lot different- anyone know why)

GOD bless!
 
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It was explained to me by an EO monk, that Roman Catholic scholasticism is what made them venture into over-analyzing everything until it did not resemble the tradition handed to them by the Apostles. Where the Orthodox accept teachings on their merits, Catholics have to have 500 pages of Canon law to explain it to the nth degree.

My two cents.
Btw, I am Eastern Catholic, we think like the Orthodox.
 
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The EOs used to have a similar approach as the Latin Catholics, but moved away from it in the growing anti-Latin sentiments of the 19th century and the Neo-Palamite movement of the early 20th which grew out of it. The Neo-Palamite approach is now pretty much universal among the EOs, but it was not always so.

The Catholic Church has always had a place for a variety of approaches, even if the more systematic or scholastic has been the most popular at times (especially in the West)-- but the Eastern approach has also always had its place too.
 
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I’m not sure I understand the questions. I think you are claiming that you have seen Orthodox Christians somewhere that did not like to use scripture to defend their beliefs? I do not know what you mean by using history for defense of their beliefs, is this supposed to mean traditions from the early centuries of Christianity? I also do not know what a spirit-led approach to defending the Church’s Faith. I don’t want to guess at what you mean, so please explain this as I have never heard of such a thing (edit, I should say in contrast to using Holy Scripture and Tradition). I have also never heard of an Orthodox Christian that does not use Holy Scripture and Tradition to defend the Faith. What else is there to explain the Faith?

You might have run into people that are not qualified to defend the faith and gave you some misinformation. The Orthodox Church is similar to Roman Catholics in using Holy Scripture and Tradition to defend the faith. Evangelization is also not viewed differently from the RCC, but because of its relatively small presence in the USA and other factors dealing with people from foreign countries, evangelization in the USA is not thriving like it should and God-willing will in the future.
 
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Many on both sides lay a lot of the blame at the feet of Augustine.
 
I might have been experiencing a minority. I am not entirely sure and that is why I am asking but hopefully I can be a little clearer. Their attitude towards apologetics probably differs among orthodoxy but the ones i saw seem to think that it was a choice that the HOLY SPIRIT convicts you of. I think. I can clarify on this though: they (from what i have experienced) don’t go out of their way to evangelize but if someone comes to them they will answer their questions and not turn them away.

GOD bless!
 
Gmsod said:
I might have been experiencing a minority. I am not entirely sure and that is why I am asking but hopefully I can be a little clearer. Their attitude towards apologetics probably differs among orthodoxy but the ones i saw seem to think that it was a choice that the HOLY SPIRIT convicts you of. I think. I can clarify on this though: they (from what i have experienced) don’t go out of their way to evangelize but if someone comes to them they will answer their questions and not turn them away.

GOD bless!
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I was at Bible study this past weekend with my priest (he has a Ph.D. in Systematic Theology) and meets a few times a year with other religious leaders of Christianity and Judaism.

He was telling us that he once told the Rabbi that one of reason God choose the Jews was so they could introduce the world to the One True God. The rabbi said “thank you for reminding me, we often forget.”

Which promoted me to ask, “well, if they are supposed to introduce the world to the One True God, why don’t they evangelize?” My pastor said, because the Jews view their role/job to focus on “doing the good deed” and leading by example, not my preaching, teaching or evangelizing.

Then, he went on to say that the Greek Christianity (both Eastern Orthodox and Byzantine Catholics), over time, inherited (or developed) that same mindset from the Jews. After all, the Jews were mostly in the East during the early centuries of the Church. And while there were Jews in Rome, most were still in the east. So in a way, Greek Christianity was perhaps more influenced by the Jews than Western Christianity.

Point is, the Greek Christians have developed a passive stance on evangelization, compared to the Latin Christians - who spread the Christianity all around the world. After the evangelization of Russia, Greek Christianity basically stopped growing geographically.

The Greeks also (like the Jews) have much more of a cultural / nationalist element to their religion, while the Latin Church as tried hard to be more welcoming of different cultures.

Anyway, that’s what we discussed.

God Bless

BTW - obviously, the Evangelical Protestants (whether they admit it or not) have inherited their evangelical spirit from the Roman Catholics 🙂
 
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Keep in mind for many centuries EOs have been surrounded by, often under the rule of first Muslims, later Communists and Muslims. Their lack of much evangelisation may have other causes than theological.

My understanding is that Sacred Tradition occupies a greater role than RCC, and much greater role than in most Protestant denominations. I suspect the apologetics or “analysis” is still there but takes on a somewhat different form than in Catholicism and Protestantism.
 
I always find it amusing when Protestant converts to Orthodoxy say they were attracted to the Orthodox Church rather than the Catholic Church because the Orthodox “don’t try to explain things”. 🤨 🤣 I’m not sure why that’s a good thing.
 
Thanks all!
Thanks for the explanations, phil19034 and commentor. Also BoomerangToo that is what I am talking about with their not explaining things- but they seem to feel the same way i think towards those who feel the need to explain them. Anyone understand why?

GOD bless!
 
Greetings all,

Growing up Roman Catholic I was “forced” into apologetics when being questioned about my faith from some Protestant Christians that I worked with back when I has in college, 20 years ago haha! As I have ventured east, I now attend a Ruthenian Byzantine Catholic Church, I have read some great books about Orthodoxy. First off, and I could be very wrong since I am new to the eastern church, but it seems that the east never really had to defend their faith the way Catholics had to in the west, primarily due to the Reformation (again, I’m not a church historian so I could be wrong).

Now being attracted to the Orthodox Church or even the Byzantine Catholic Churches because they “don’t try to explain things”, that makes sense to me. Both styles of worship, east and west, have wonderful experiences, but I must say that there is a special beauty that is found in the Byzantine Churches with it’s icons, incense and chanting. Bishop Kallistos Ware, in his book The Orthodox Church: An Introduction to Eastern Christianity, writes a story about Vladimir the Great. He sends some of his followers to find the true religion. First they went to the Muslims and found that they prayed like men possessed and that there was no joy among them. Next, they travelled to Germany and Rome and found their worship to be much more pleasing but lacked beauty. Finally, when Vladimir’s followers travelled to Constantinople they entered the great Church of the Holy Wisdom and attended the Divine Liturgy. They reported back to Vladimir the Great saying, “We knew not whether we were in heaven or on earth, for surely there is no splendor of beauty anywhere upon the earth. We cannot describe it to you: only this we know, that God dwells there among humans, and that their service surpasses all other places. For we cannot forget the beauty.”

Now, I am not trying to say that the Latin Church does not have a wonderful, solemn worship, but the eastern churches are known for their beauty and eastern theology is often found within the Divine Liturgy and within the Liturgy of the Hours.

Again, I’m a novice so forgive me if I am not on point 🙂

Peace,
ZP
 
So you converted for the experience of worship and the beauty of the church as opposed to doctrinal or theological reasons, right?
 
That’s been pretty standard on the Eastern half of Christianity from the beginning from my understanding, and even in pre-Christian Roman Empire the Eastern half of the empire was generally more mystical in their pagan religions than the western half. It’s a cultural thing.

I don’t think this is a negative however, God speaks to people in their own language. I’m not the type of person that hears through mysticism, I like the RC way of getting down into the deepest part of an idea, whereas I know other people who would benefit more from just feeling God through experience.

To quote JPII poorly, “The church needs to breathe with both lungs”
 
Yes, beauty is what struck me. Theology came with study while I journeyed eastward.

ZP
 
Apologetics and evangelization are not the same thing. Orthodox apologetics are very sound and are the reason why many are converting to the Orthodox Church. Evangelization on the other hand is more touchy. The Orthodox faith emphasizes a personal spiritual transformation and that it is not good to try to convince others before you are a good model to follow. And to top it off, we do trust God to bring people in contact with the Holy Church either by individuals or to the Priests. In that sense we are more trusting in the Holy Spirit. But most good Orthodox Christians want all of their friends and family to be Orthodox. Careful to not push people away by evangelizing with too many words prematurely. But this whole idea that explanations are lacking is totally bogus. Just attend a Vespers or Matins service and you will hear so much Theology you won’t be able to keep up. The beauty is an added bonus from God.
 
I will say that it is not an Orthodox practice to debate with anyone who is simply arguing for argument’s sake. This is sinful to just try to prove that you know more than others. Giving Holy things to dogs and Pearls of God to swine.
 
Brother, I am a Roman Catholic and I too have recently been attracted to the Orthodox Church. However, allow me as a companion, to point out some things which you have just narrated (please do treat this a filial remark).
  1. I agree with you in terms of the beauty of the liturgy. I too find more beauty in the liturgy of the Eastern Churches. However, if this is the sole reason then it certainly is not enough. There are Eastern Catholic Churches (You have mentioned the Byzantine Catholic Church. Remember they are in communion with Rome) that have the same liturgy. Furthermore, try attending an Extraordinary Form of the Roman Rite. You may be surprised. I have heard many Catholics who converted to the Orthodox Church then went back to the Roman Church because their sole reason was the liturgy. They were surprised when they discovered the Extraordinary Form.
  2. You mentioned the approach to theology of “not trying to explain everything.” I assume you are referring to Scholasticism (e.g. St. Thomas Aquinas, St. Bonaventure, St. Anthony de Padua, etc.) that is dominant in the Latin Church. However, the Latin Church also has a tradition of mystical theology like the Eastern Churches. Most notably are St. Teresa of Avila, St. John of the Cross, St. Ignatius of Loyola, St. Benedict, etc. Just like the Eastern Churches, we too get our theology from the Desert Fathers and from writings such as the Philokalia.
I hope these remarks could help you as you discern in this journey, brother.
 
Thank you for your insight ThereseFrancis!
  1. I attend a Byzantine Catholic Church for the reason that it is in communion with Rome. I believe in the importance of the Papacy. I’m able to live a fully Orthodox life and be in communion with Rome. In my opinion it’s the best of both worlds 🙂 I agree, the Extraordinary From is a wonderful liturgy.
  2. I agree, the Latin Church does have a wonderful tradition of mystical theology. Thanks for reminding me of that!
Blessings,
ZP
 
Well, I think the response could be at least in part that overly formal apologetics are a product/hallmark of Roman Catholicism in particular but also Protestantism and it is a fair question whether they’ve done more good or harm in either case (actually I am not sure there is much question there, unfortunately). What you refer to (a tad simplistically but not necessarily erroneously) as the ‘Spirit-led’ approach being more in accord with Scriptures and Tradition of the Church, not to mention Christ himself. This is not a fight I would pick with them. Try something else. 🙂 Find firmer ground.
 
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