Eastern Orthodox - Do they belong in the NC Forum???

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The problem is when people have a particular area that they are interested in. Someone who wants to participate in threads about Orthodoxy may not wish to scroll down past all the thread about Muslims. Another person may wish to participate in threads about Protestants, and may find it to be a chore scrolling down past all the threads about Orthodoxy. Not all posters are interested in threads about all non-Catholic religions. There should be a way to separate the types of non-Catholic religions.
Use the search feature.

I think my suggestion of EOOO is being accepted for all Eastern Orthodox and Oriental Orthodox threads. Protestant tags can be tagged with Ptst. Then you can use the search feature and search the Non-Catholic Religions board for threads with PTST in the title, and you can even choose how new the threads need to be.
 
Yes. I didn’t know how to break up your quotes, quoting my quotes. I do not feel that Orthodox belong in the same forum as non-Christians, such as Muslims. Neither do Protestants.
I understand what you’re saying. Being in the non-Catholic forum.
  • puts them in with everyone outside Catholicism.
  • However, they were calling themselves Catholic(s), or the Catholic Church on a Catholic forum, as was the case in the previous format, and it caused confusion and a blurring of terms.
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Lak:
I would like to see subforums in Non-Catholic Religions: one for Orthodox, one for Protestant, and one for non-Christian.
I’m just thinking outloud on this. CAF is the largest apostolate on the web. It’s not easy or cheap to put this on.
  • I think some were abusing this gift.
  • To address your point, to make all these divisions and micro divisions within CAF, and give each their own platform to espouse THEIR ideology, really isn’t the purpose of CAF and isn’t addressing the problem of all these divisions in general, and may actually give credence to all these divisions and perpetuate them… And THAT’s not what CAF is about either.
    Therefore, it’s probably good for all non Catholic divisions to see the real problem and impact of division, and NOT good to give each group their own cozy little corner at CAF where they can exist on their own at CAF expense.
That’s my :twocents:
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Lak:
I don’t see anything in the document that states that Orthodox sacraments are invalid.
Very true.
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Lak:
True again. That’s why I posted that link to Dominus Iesus.
 
I understand what you’re saying. Being in the non-Catholic forum.
  • puts them in with everyone outside Catholicism.
  • However, they were calling themselves Catholic(s), or the Catholic Church on a Catholic forum, as was the case in the previous format, and it caused confusion and a blurring of terms.
Ok. Now I understand where you are coming from. I rarely read the threads in the Eastern Christianity forum, so I did not see the post where this claim was made.
 
maybe there could be an orthodox sub forum under the non-catholic forum?
This would sure be my preference. But I would like to see this section divided up in to several subfora, Orthodox being one, Trinitarian Protestants, and maybe an atheism. It is very hard to wade through all these various parts, and the Orthodox is so unique as to really warrant it’s own subforum. I have learned a great deal on the Eastern Christianity forum, and don’t want that to get “lost in the sauce”. On the other hand, I can see why the decision was made.
 
But I would like to see this section divided up in to several subfora, Orthodox being one, Trinitarian Protestants, and maybe an atheism.
I would like subfora for Orthodox, Protestant, and everybody else.
It is very hard to wade through all these various parts, and the Orthodox is so unique as to really warrant it’s own subforum.
I agree. There are already so many different threads: Protestant, atheist, Muslim, Wiccan. Adding Orthodox muddles it up even more. 😦
 
I’ve spent quite a bit of time wadding through Lord knows what to find things of interest. I’ve better things to do.
 
I’ve spent quite a bit of time wadding through Lord knows what to find things of interest. I’ve better things to do.
I feel the same way, Isa. Besides, with Fr. Ambrose and others not posting, there isn’t much of a discussion anyway. I’m thinking of leaving the forum for this reason.

God bless,

Adam

P.S. Do you know why the EC forum was removed from the archives?
 
I feel the same way, Isa. Besides, with Fr. Ambrose and others not posting, there isn’t much of a discussion anyway. I’m thinking of leaving the forum for this reason.

God bless,

Adam

P.S. Do you know why the EC forum was removed from the archives?
I am so far out of the inner circle, I don’t think I will ever fully understand what happened.
It may have something to do with the fact the (at last count) 8 of the major posters had been banned, and maybe it was just easier to remove the archives than to remove their posts.
Wild guess…I don’t think we’ll ever know.

Too bad. There was some good information in them, if you could sort through the chaff.

I tried to message and email Fr Abrose through the forum. Have they closed his account? ( I know the others that have been banned-it was not indicated on their profiles.)
I have not heard from him, but maybe he is too busy or has chosen not to reply, which is fine. I just wanted to make sure that the message would have gotten to him.

lucy
 
I have seen Fr Ambrose lurking ffrom time to time .

I guess he is taking a break for a while.
 
I am so far out of the inner circle, I don’t think I will ever fully understand what happened.
It may have something to do with the fact the (at last count) 8 of the major posters had been banned, and maybe it was just easier to remove the archives than to remove their posts.
Wild guess…I don’t think we’ll ever know.

Too bad. There was some good information in them, if you could sort through the chaff.

I tried to message and email Fr Abrose through the forum. Have they closed his account? ( I know the others that have been banned-it was not indicated on their profiles.)
I have not heard from him, but maybe he is too busy or has chosen not to reply, which is fine. I just wanted to make sure that the message would have gotten to him.

lucy
I just noticed your profile, that you are Western Rite.

In happier times I often expressed that we had more WRO, and more Copts, Syrians, etc. on an erstwhile forum.
 
I feel the same way, Isa.

Me too. Or me three?

Besides, with Fr. Ambrose and others not posting, there isn’t much of a discussion anyway. I’m thinking of leaving the forum for this reason.

Sigh. Well, the EO were explicitly told they don’t belong in the Eastern Catholicism forum. And Fr Ambrose said he did not feel too comfy with acceding to the forum definition of Orthodoxy as non-catholic and is, I think, awaiting two priests’ opinions on whether he should still participate or not. If the idea was to lose all the Orthodox and stop the dialog, it’s working.

As a mother, I can at least still enjoy the Family life and Parenting forums 🤷 . That is, if I don’t get banned for complaining.

God bless,

Adam

P.S. Do you know why the EC forum was removed from the archives?

EC archives ARE gone! :eek: Whatever for?
 
I just noticed your profile, that you are Western Rite.

In happier times I often expressed that we had more WRO, and more Copts, Syrians, etc. on an erstwhile forum.
I thought being Western Ritte, and having much in common with the more Traditional Roman Catholics may have added to the conversation.
EO were often accused of hating everything Western, and though I love the Eastern Liturgy, I have grown to love the Western Rite, which is almost identical to their pre-Vatican II Tridentine Rite (except in English, though our Priest does the Canon in Latin sometimes), we do Diivine Offices, all our music is Gregorian Chant, we follow the tradition Western Calendar (though our Easter coincides with the rest of the Orthodox Church), we do the Rosery, so many of the prayers and litanies they are all familiar with and love.

I was overcome with the culture shock, not expecting the reaction that EO got here…I never anticipated it, and I am still not sure I understand this knee jerk reaction (I know there were a handful of…warriors, I don’t know what other term to use, who were more interested in winning an argument, and both sides played in it.)
I knew that the EO have always been very suspicious, and cautious in any dealings with Rome, and it is understandable, but I am not sure why the rage and bitterness on the Roman Catholic side runs so deep, especially among American Roman Catholics, who have had little dealing or experience, let alone a bloody history to overcome. Most do not know the real doctrinal issues, or take at face value some of the ugly misrepresentations and caricatures spread by a few over zealous apologists, most of whom seem to be converts to the Roman Catholic faith.

What really chilled my blood was looking through the other forums, looking for how people were dealing with interchurch (not interfaith) marriage, and the majority concensus was if your only engaged, break it off, or if you are married and it’s not going well, they were being told all the possibilities that might allow an annulment. God over spouse, or rather Roman Catholic over spouse. I don’t understand…I have left off reading in tears many times, and as my husband moves deeper into this culture, the more heartbreaking it is for our marriage, and our children, though grown, are suffering the fallout…in the beginning they went to Mass occasionally with him, but now they leave the room if the subject of the Church comes up…and though I have been around here over a year, I have found few answers, and have become very troubled. Over 20 years of marriage, with rarely a harsh word, and now we can not even speak or “our faith”. And I am at a loss to what has changed, other than the attitudes and environment or those around us. We are have no problem in any other area, and continue to grow in our love toward one another

That’s why I think it is better not to be here. There is something toxic here that I have never encountered before in any other Roman Catholic relationships.

I do not judge anyone, I just don’t understand what dynamic is going on that makes things so difficult.
And I apologize in advance, I am sure the majority or Roman Catholics individually have the best of motives. Maybe it has to do with the facelessness of the encounters…I don’t know.

If anyone has a better answer, ( besides the usual ones that I am too proud to submit to the Pope, am a schismatic or a heretic), I would like to know what it is.
Those who know me, and know the reasons for my situation, have no problem or criticism of where I am now; even the Priest of my RCIA understoods; most offer their comfort and prayers for healing and a solution to this problem…but I would never expose myself, my reasons here…I think there should be enough respect to be taken at my word.

lucy
 
I thought being Western Ritte, and having much in common with the more Traditional Roman Catholics may have added to the conversation.
EO were often accused of hating everything Western, and though I love the Eastern Liturgy, I have grown to love the Western Rite, which is almost identical to their pre-Vatican II Tridentine Rite (except in English, though our Priest does the Canon in Latin sometimes), we do Diivine Offices, all our music is Gregorian Chant, we follow the tradition Western Calendar (though our Easter coincides with the rest of the Orthodox Church), we do the Rosery, so many of the prayers and litanies they are all familiar with and love.

I was overcome with the culture shock, not expecting the reaction that EO got here…I never anticipated it, and I am still not sure I understand this knee jerk reaction (I know there were a handful of…warriors, I don’t know what other term to use, who were more interested in winning an argument, and both sides played in it.)
I knew that the EO have always been very suspicious, and cautious in any dealings with Rome, and it is understandable, but I am not sure why the rage and bitterness on the Roman Catholic side runs so deep, especially among American Roman Catholics, who have had little dealing or experience, let alone a bloody history to overcome. Most do not know the real doctrinal issues, or take at face value some of the ugly misrepresentations and caricatures spread by a few over zealous apologists, most of whom seem to be converts to the Roman Catholic faith.

What really chilled my blood was looking through the other forums, looking for how people were dealing with interchurch (not interfaith) marriage, and the majority concensus was if your only engaged, break it off, or if you are married and it’s not going well, they were being told all the possibilities that might allow an annulment. God over spouse, or rather Roman Catholic over spouse. I don’t understand…I have left off reading in tears many times, and as my husband moves deeper into this culture, the more heartbreaking it is for our marriage, and our children, though grown, are suffering the fallout…in the beginning they went to Mass occasionally with him, but now they leave the room if the subject of the Church comes up…and though I have been around here over a year, I have found few answers, and have become very troubled. Over 20 years of marriage, with rarely a harsh word, and now we can not even speak or “our faith”. And I am at a loss to what has changed, other than the attitudes and environment or those around us. We are have no problem in any other area, and continue to grow in our love toward one another

That’s why I think it is better not to be here. There is something toxic here that I have never encountered before in any other Roman Catholic relationships.

I do not judge anyone, I just don’t understand what dynamic is going on that makes things so difficult.
And I apologize in advance, I am sure the majority or Roman Catholics individually have the best of motives. Maybe it has to do with the facelessness of the encounters…I don’t know.

If anyone has a better answer, ( besides the usual ones that I am too proud to submit to the Pope, am a schismatic or a heretic), I would like to know what it is.
Those who know me, and know the reasons for my situation, have no problem or criticism of where I am now; even the Priest of my RCIA understoods; most offer their comfort and prayers for healing and a solution to this problem…but I would never expose myself, my reasons here…I think there should be enough respect to be taken at my word.

lucy
Praying for you and your family.
 
I was overcome with the culture shock, not expecting the reaction that EO got here…I never anticipated it, and I am still not sure I understand this knee jerk reaction (I know there were a handful of…warriors, I don’t know what other term to use, who were more interested in winning an argument, and both sides played in it.)
I knew that the EO have always been very suspicious, and cautious in any dealings with Rome, and it is understandable, but I am not sure why the rage and bitterness on the Roman Catholic side runs so deep, especially among American Roman Catholics, who have had little dealing or experience, let alone a bloody history to overcome. Most do not know the real doctrinal issues, or take at face value some of the ugly misrepresentations and caricatures spread by a few over zealous apologists, most of whom seem to be converts to the Roman Catholic faith.

What really chilled my blood was looking through the other forums, looking for how people were dealing with interchurch (not interfaith) marriage, and the majority concensus was if your only engaged, break it off, or if you are married and it’s not going well, they were being told all the possibilities that might allow an annulment. God over spouse, or rather Roman Catholic over spouse. I don’t understand…I have left off reading in tears many times, and as my husband moves deeper into this culture, the more heartbreaking it is for our marriage, and our children, though grown, are suffering the fallout…in the beginning they went to Mass occasionally with him, but now they leave the room if the subject of the Church comes up…and though I have been around here over a year, I have found few answers, and have become very troubled. Over 20 years of marriage, with rarely a harsh word, and now we can not even speak or “our faith”. And I am at a loss to what has changed, other than the attitudes and environment or those around us. We are have no problem in any other area, and continue to grow in our love toward one another

lucy
Lucy, your post is troubling and painful to read. Let me offer my perspective, if I may. If any Catholic, whether here or elsewhere, calls you a heretic, he is simply mistaken. The Catholic Church considers EO to be schimatics, but not heretics. On the reverse side of the coin, however, the eight or so Orthodox posters (I never counted them) people are referring to here were systematically anti-Catholic in their statements and behaviour here amongst us, and were never corrected or called to order by the more moderate Orthodox posters at any time while I was active on these forums.

What is my definition of an anti-Catholic?
  1. One who mocks Catholic beliefs or practices.
  2. One who will never concede even a factual point if there is any chance it will favour a Catholic position.
  3. One who continues to misrepresent Catholic beliefs and practices even when corrected with citations from Catholic sources.
  4. One who insists that Catholics are heretics, even in the absence of any authoritative pan-Orthodox pronouncement to this effect.
  5. One who ascribes base and dishonest motives to Catholics without any supporting evidence.
  6. One who argues that wrongs to innocent Catholics in this day can be justified as a response to alleged wrongs by Catholics in the past.
  7. One who responds to Catholic arguments with ad hominem attacks.
It shouldn’t be about winning. It should be about exchanging information, and learning about each other. If those eight Orthodox trolls learned anything positive about Catholicism, while I was a forum participant, they certainly never let on.

I used to be an active participant in the EO forum over a year back, and left in disgust at the anti-Catholicism I met there.

I came back a year later after the EO forum was shut down. It’s a coincidence, but I had no intention of rejoining it. I don’t want anyone banned, but if none of those offensive posters ever make an appearance again, I won’t be shedding any tears.

As to the posts regarding annulments in the other forums you allude to, I am shocked that any Catholic would advise anyone to end a marriage on such flimsy grounds. All marriages between Catholics and other Christians, even those conducted under a purely civil ceremony are sacramental. Only civil marriages to non Christians offer grounds for separation because of differences of faith, and even there the Catholic party isn’t called to leave but to act as a witness for the faith to his or her non Christian spouse. I share your outrage.

Irenicist
 
  1. One who will never concede even a factual point if there is any chance it will favor a Catholic position.
That’s way too subjective to be part of any credible definition. Who decides what is a “factual point”?
I don’t want anyone banned, but if none of those offensive posters ever make an appearance again, I won’t be shedding any tears.
And I won’t be shedding any tears over some of the Roman Catholics who bullied their way around the old forum. Besides, I think you’re being unfair to those who have now been banned. I know of only a couple Orthodox posters who were over-the-top. One was banned on the day (but before) the old forum was shut down.
All marriages between Catholics and other Christians, even those conducted under a purely civil ceremony are sacramental.
This is a change of the doctrine of the ancient Church, which was that a marriage is made sacramental by the blessing of the Church. I suspect that this novel idea comes from the innovative belief of Catholicism that the couple, as opposed to the priest, confects the sacrament of Matrimony.

God bless,

Adam
 
I’m a Latin Catholic and I don’t really feel comfortable labeling the Orthodox as non-Catholic. While I believe that the Catholic Church is present in all the local churches in communion with the Pope, in their faith and practices the Orthodox have kept the catholic faith handed down to them even though they’re not in communion with us. There are differences between our churches but putting them into the same category as Protestants and other non-Catholic religions is definitely wrong, imho.
This is perfectly said, from my point of view, so I will just agree with you here rather than trying to say the same thing with different words. 😉

~Liza
 
If the Orthodox are non-Catholic, then why do Roman Catholics allow Orthodox to partake of the Most Holy Mystery of the Eucharist? (I’m not speaking of grave situations, but of ordinary celebrations).
 
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