Eastern Orthodox view of Catholics?

[siciliano]

Listen, both sides of this argument are equally infuriating with each side saying that we are the true church and vice versa. Let’s be real, both sides are the TRUE church, two lungs, two hearts that SHOULD be beating as one.

Stop the madness!

 

[Frank_J]

Hi

Sicilians were forced to convert by the Catholic Church 500 years ago. Many Sicilians may not know of the culture background in Orthodoxy; I didn’t even know of the religionist history of my ethic back ground in it.

When I first joined my Orthodox Church I started to wonder what I was see seemed so very close to what my mother would teach me when I was young. I started to look at Sicilian history and found out that Sicilians were Byzantine Christians for the longest time.

I readed that the Sicilians were forceful converted by the Catholics a long time ago. Nice going very ecumenical on the Catholics part Hummm??? I feel that Sicilians should be shown their past and let them chooses. They are the ones that were wronged by the Roman Church. Let the Sicilians and understanted what was done to them and their families.

The Roman Church has not changed it still treat people like old rags. I’ve spoken to an Eastern Catholic and we spoke on the subject on how they are treated by the Latins. He is a religionist Archdeacon who name I will protect so he will not get a call down.

He told me that they’re treat like they are not to be trusted. They are pushed to Latinize themselves. This tells me everything about the Roman Catholic Church.

Like I said many time, look at what is done, not what is said.

Roman Catholic Church picks and chooses what is right whether it is good or not for people. I’ve seen many mistakes done by the Catholics from Liturgy revisions of Vatican II to Altar Girls that one I see as a pip. I could go on and on. If were to say why do you think the Catholic changes stuff just look at Pope Pius XXII doc. MEDIATOR DEI and you will see what he said about the Catholic and what would happen to it if it changed the Liturgy. Look and see for yourselves don’t take my words for it look for yourself.

Then tell me the Catholic Church dosen’t pick in choose evern when it comes to faith. Pope Pius XXII said that if the Church made these changes it would be in error…

Have a good day.

Frank J.

 

[Fuerza]

Hi

Sicilians were forced to convert by the Catholic Church 500 years ago. Many Sicilians may not know of the culture background in Orthodoxy; I didn’t even know of the religionist history of my ethic back ground in it.

When I first joined my Orthodox Church I started to wonder what I was see seemed so very close to what my mother would teach me when I was young. I started to look at Sicilian history and found out that Sicilians were Byzantine Christians for the longest time.

I readed that the Sicilians were forceful converted by the Catholics a long time ago. Nice going very ecumenical on the Catholics part Hummm??? I feel that Sicilians should be shown their past and let them chooses. They are the ones that were wronged by the Roman Church. Let the Sicilians and understanted what was done to them and their families.

The Roman Church has not changed it still treat people like old rags. I’ve spoken to an Eastern Catholic and we spoke on the subject on how they are treated by the Latins. He is a religionist Archdeacon who name I will protect so he will not get a call down.

He told me that they’re treat like they are not to be trusted. They are pushed to Latinize themselves. This tells me everything about the Roman Catholic Church.

Like I said many time, look at what is done, not what is said.

Roman Catholic Church picks and chooses what is right whether it is good or not for people. I’ve seen many mistakes done by the Catholics from Liturgy revisions of Vatican II to Altar Girls that one I see as a pip. I could go on and on. If were to say why do you think the Catholic changes stuff just look at Pope Pius XXII doc. MEDIATOR DEI and you will see what he said about the Catholic and what would happen to it if it changed the Liturgy. Look and see for yourselves don’t take my words for it look for yourself.

Then tell me the Catholic Church dosen’t pick in choose evern when it comes to faith. Pope Pius XXII said that if the Church made these changes it would be in error…

Have a good day.

Frank J.

This is getting off topic, but Sicily has been Catholic for way more than 500 years. 500 years ago, as a matter of fact, Sicily was under Spanish control (and continued to be so in various forms via the Crown of Aragon, Kingdom of Spain, and the Spanish Borbones/Bourbons until the 1800s). Sicily was Catholic way before Spain came, and of course from a Catholic point of view, has been consistently since the founding of the Church.

Now you can argue that Sicily should have retained the Byzantine Rite and I would probably agree, but to say that we should all belong to a church with whom we feel no connection is wrong. It sounds to me like you’re basing your feelings on Catholicism on the negative opinions of a few and a poor understanding of history. You’re entitled to your opinion, but keep in mind that you are doing the same thing of which you accused me only a few posts ago. With that, I’m done.

 

[Contrabass101]

My country was inhabited by Heathens 1200 years ago.

My country has a culture background in Heathen practices.

My fathers were Heathens.

But then came the Catholic Church, and ritual sites were replaced with churches.

Should we give our churches back to the Heathens?

• CB

 

[Frank_J]

Hi Fuerza

I do read history; got some good books on religion and the wars it has created.

I have books on the Catholic Church actions in Eastern Europe during WWII. I seen pictures of Serbian men, woman and child murdered by so call Catholic. I can not say what the picture look like but if I had to place them with another group who did stuff like this I would put in the same league with the Germans. I seen pictures with Children who eyes were removed by the so call faithful of the so called religion. If you know what I mean?? That just getting started I could tell you so much more of the nice things done to the Serbian Orthodox in there home country. By the so call Western Christians They were told to renonce their faith or die, If they did they were to become Catholic.So did but others did not and die faith.

I have friends who lost family and homes in Croatia. They had to start life over and had nothing when they came here to escape the troubles. You want to see what Orthodox see, just asked them and they will tell you. Also ask the converts who have come out of the Catholic Church and have become Orthodox Christians they know best.

Fast question for you. When you make the sign of the cross do you put the first three fingers together and fold the last to down??

If you do that, that is not Catholic. If Sicilians are to be Catholic and then why do it? The Sicilians I know all do it and they don’t know why.

Since this Eastern Orthodox view of Catholics here one to add to it. My friend just got married to a Serbian woman who until she came here never meet a Catholic before.She asked me why Catholic hate Orthodox Christians?? I told her you will find people who don’t like you for who you are. I told her not to let it get to her, just brush off the dirt from her feet and walk away.

I asking you; how should I have answered her question??

I keep track of what happens to the Uniates to see if you are treating them well. You should talk to the so call Uniates and see what they think of the Latinization that was force on them. Orthodox see what you do to your own and learn from it, and from that, we find out how you would treat us. Examples on how your treat people direct one to the right answer on how the othe side will present itself to the other side.

This part had nothing to do with the subject but just so tha you see that I read a book or watch TV. some of what I can say is stated below. But you could say that the we learn from this too.

Before I go I want to say, What nice neighbors living in my neighborhood. We had Father Proter and Father Gagen being guests at the Massachusetts State Police office here in my area. Catholic Church did a hell of bang up job fining this group of priests. Hey we had Cardinal Law to over look the troubles he made. Don’t forget Pope John Paul II pick Cardinal Law for the job.

I just want you to know I read and see you can’t help see the zoo that air on TV a few years ago in the Boston, MA area.

I’m sometime sharp with my mouth.

Have a great day.

 

[Frank_J]

Hi contrabass,

I not saying that. My talk is about being forced to change one religion for another. Catholics complain if they were force to not practice there religion openly in other countries.

The Catholic church complains about the Russian Church using the Russian Government to crack down on so foreign religions.

I like the laws pasted by the Duma on controlling foreign religions.Many cults that try to convert Orthodox Christians from the faith. The people need to be protected by the state

The west is very morally bankrupt you see in your own country look around you. The future for Western Europe is it new religion coming down the pike and that religion is Islam. I see and read what is happening there. If you’re Lutheran you maybe form Germany but it will not make much of a differents with the growth of Islam. Numbers count when it comes to births of muslim babies. Watch one day they will vote for a new leadership.

Euope has forgotten GOD and shows it hate for GOD. In Russia in so called state schools they have Christian religionist training and teach morals to the young people. I like to thumps up for the Russians. Good for them…

Orthodoxy is the heart and soul of Russia. With out that, that country would go down hill. We’ve seen what can happen to a country like the USSR.

Orthodox Christians have had lot of problems with Catholics who have done damage to out people in many ways. We could start with the Uniate Church plus the sending priest trying to convert my brothers and sisters to their Catholic religion. The forced conversions of the Serbians people.

Same thing happen to you group don’t you remember from reading?? You stated you’re of what you stated “Lutheran by tradition - which is an oxymoron” Not sure why you used “which is an oxymoron:” your remarks about your religion??

But lets get back to main focus and that is how Eastern Orthodox view Catholic people.

Orthodox use to say "better un the Muslims rule then the Pope Tara.

Will say more in my next chat Have to go.

Have a great day.

Frank J.

 

[Fuerza]

Hi Fuerza

I do read history; got some good books on religion and the wars it has created.

I have books on the Catholic Church actions in Eastern Europe during WWII. I seen pictures of Serbian men, woman and child murdered by so call Catholic. I can not say what the picture look like but if I had to place them with another group who did stuff like this I would put in the same league with the Germans. I seen pictures with Children who eyes were removed by the so call faithful of the so called religion. If you know what I mean?? That just getting started I could tell you so much more of the nice things done to the Serbian Orthodox in there home country. By the so call Western Christians They were told to renonce their faith or die, If they did they were to become Catholic.So did but others did not and die faith.

I have friends who lost family and homes in Croatia. They had to start life over and had nothing when they came here to escape the troubles. You want to see what Orthodox see, just asked them and they will tell you. Also ask the converts who have come out of the Catholic Church and have become Orthodox Christians they know best.

Fast question for you. When you make the sign of the cross do you put the first three fingers together and fold the last to down??

If you do that, that is not Catholic. If Sicilians are to be Catholic and then why do it? The Sicilians I know all do it and they don’t know why.

Since this Eastern Orthodox view of Catholics here one to add to it. My friend just got married to a Serbian woman who until she came here never meet a Catholic before.She asked me why Catholic hate Orthodox Christians?? I told her you will find people who don’t like you for who you are. I told her not to let it get to her, just brush off the dirt from her feet and walk away.

I asking you; how should I have answered her question??

I keep track of what happens to the Uniates to see if you are treating them well. You should talk to the so call Uniates and see what they think of the Latinization that was force on them. Orthodox see what you do to your own and learn from it, and from that, we find out how you would treat us. Examples on how your treat people direct one to the right answer on how the othe side will present itself to the other side.

This part had nothing to do with the subject but just so tha you see that I read a book or watch TV. some of what I can say is stated below. But you could say that the we learn from this too.

Before I go I want to say, What nice neighbors living in my neighborhood. We had Father Proter and Father Gagen being guests at the Massachusetts State Police office here in my area. Catholic Church did a hell of bang up job fining this group of priests. Hey we had Cardinal Law to over look the troubles he made. Don’t forget Pope John Paul II pick Cardinal Law for the job.

I just want you to know I read and see you can’t help see the zoo that air on TV a few years ago in the Boston, MA area.

I’m sometime sharp with my mouth.

Have a great day.

Frank J,

I really do not wish to get ino this type of thing. You say you’ve seen Serbians killed by a Catholic. What does this prove? Do you truly believe that not a single act of atrocity was committed by an Orthodox Christian during the genocide in Serbia or at any point in history?

If how we treat other people, whether they be our own or not, is the mark of the true Church, then the Orthodox are out of contention as well. There’s really no need to keep slinging mud. If you want to go off on the abuses in the history of the Church, you should probably start a new thread.

 

[Frank_J]

Hi Fuerza,

I not saying that Orthodox had a good records being saints and have done things that should have happened. I was told by the Serbians that they were protecting themselves.

There was a radio broadcast back in 1930’s called the Shadow and the line from that radio show is as followed: What evil lurks in the hearts of men, the Shadow knows" it kind of corny use the line but somewhat a good one.

Sorry If I come across as very sharp with my mouth. knowing the people that have gone through this in there lives. We can all say the other side did it.

Have a great day.

Frank J.

 

[Athanasiy]

Greetings Contrabass !
Greetings to every one who takes part in this thread.
Unfortunately I did read only the starting question , because I am at the moment in the internet cafe.
I remember I had a discussion with one woman , and she tried to prove that the Poles are heretics and sectarians.
And I tald her

• May be they are sectarians , but in communist Poland the God’s Law was tought in the secondary school.

They say ;
As I take my shoes from my shoe maker , and my coat from the tailor , so I take my religion from the priest.
I think its understandable , when the Orthodox clergyman gives a pastoral and caring advise when the church member asks about the catholics or other faith.
In my personal experience , I find Catholicism as a more complete version of religious truth.
I admit that , I did not study the history , and I am also not the one who is expert in theological formulas , and really could not be good in describing undescribable or in understanding the shadows and types of spiritual reality.
But I used to live in the West Europe for a four years , and I found out the Roman Catholicism Spirituality is … how is it better to say… not narcissistic , not unsocial.
When I saw how the Catholics serve the society , or ministering for the society.
You know , I would rather be wrong with Catholics , than right with Orthodox.
To answer your question.
I think when the Eastern Church teacher turns to Cathechism making , or philosophy , or esthetics , or socio-economics , its very important to inter-change the views and experience and learn from each other , but not with a cunning or superiority feelings but openly and cinsirely .
I think that at the 21-st century , in our age when religion is on the tribunal of educated man, its extremely important for the clergyman to be tremendously educated.
And ‘defence faith arguments’ must not link with violence or uncharitable statements or insulting blames , but in the open true and may be even bitter truth.
To be the Orthodox or Catholic is not to have hatred or bitterness towards any one.
The people say that ’ religion is in the heart not in the knees’ , and also there is a proverb - ’ the greatest of falts is to be conscious of none’
I think that the future relations of the Orthodox Church with its statements , positions and relations with the Catholic Church in great measure depends from the education of the prieasts.

 

[Hesychios]

You know, I would rather be wrong with Catholics , than right with Orthodox.

What an unusual statement to read.

Do you think all Roman Catholics think this way?

Michael

 

[Hesychios]

I was just responding to Fuerza’s statement in Sicilian Dialect. I said he was right…Sicilians don’t want to change and go over to the Orthodox Church. We’re quite content as Catholics. Va bene?

It happens to be the case that there are Orthodox parishes in Sicily, not very many, and not from the original establishment. They are relatively new.

But some Sicilians are obviously attracted.

To be honest, we don’t want you back if you are not ready. So bloom where you are planted.

Michael

 

[ASimpleSinner]

It happens to be the case that there are Orthodox parishes in Sicily, not very many, and not from the original establishment. They are relatively new.

But some Sicilians are obviously attracted.

To be honest, we don’t want you back if you are not ready. So bloom where you are planted.

Michael

Honestly Michael, we fell the same way. When you are ready to come back do so in full faith, we will be happy to have you abjure your rejection of the Catholic Faith.

It cuts both ways.

 

[ASimpleSinner]

Because of the widely differing opinions within the various Orthodox churches, you get everything from those who are seeking some form of reunion, to others who believe the Papacy is the Anti-Christ.

EXACTLY.

And there is no one to say any one party is definately wrong or definately right.

In “The Orthodox Church” which is actually a communion of national churches, you will find parties that accept Catholic priests through simple vesting and allegiance to the bishop, and parties that demand re-baptism. Then again, there are Orthodox who demand some of there fellow Orthodox be re-baptized. I am too familiar with too much to even take it personally.

In a communion that widely presents itself as a conciliar church, ask for documents from the council that deals with that Catholic Church. And then make sure the council presented to you (if one is presented) is accepted and “received” as a council universally enough to (whomever’s) understanding.

 

[Athanasiy]

What an unusual statement to read.

Do you think all Roman Catholics think this way?

Michael

Excuse me please , may be I do not misunderstand the monks tasks of prayers in full measure , which I really do not , but when the prominent and well known and authoritative Eastern Church scholar expresses the criticizing remarks about the monasteries involvement in the social service , and says that ministering the society is a kind of a 'danger of secularizing the faith ’ , I consider it as a fundamental misunderstanding of the church’s mission and church’s role in the modern society !
To serve the society , I do not only mean the schools, boarding-schools , orphanages , hospitals,dispensers , asylums and prisons;
I also mean some originality projects which could be done by the church , for example ; such as to teach emigrants the language , to defend the prisoner for his human rights that he would be improved and not demoralized and corrupted after his prison ’ sentence and would be worthy member of society.
It is also adoption agencies , the free lawyer 's or doctors advises and help.
The winter tents for the homeless where they could eat for free and get warm , the agencies which help the people insulted by the social unjustice and the people who are outside the framework of our consern as a society… and many many other church’s projects.

You know , I reminded that song , when capitalists saying to the people , that you’ll get the pie in the sky.
Our faith is not fatalistic submission to the fate , if we would take the hands out of our pockets and instead of scratching one another’s faces and pulling one another’s hair we could realize that no body can do that or that without the us , without the church’s initiatives and actions.
or if to say according to the topic of our thread , if we would realize that the Holy Spirit can speak in many different ways and can be present not only among Orthodox but among Catholics also , I think it would be much better way.

We see in the other spheres of human activities , in the progressive countries , the changes and denamism are inevitable and constant and the growth is the evidence of life.
The same I think must be in the spiritual sphere in the life of the church.
But I think its more actual and necessary to hear for the Orthodox Christians of the ex-communists countries than American Orthodox Christians.

 

[ASimpleSinner]

Hi

Sicilians were forced to convert by the Catholic Church 500 years ago. Many Sicilians may not know of the culture background in Orthodoxy; I didn’t even know of the religionist history of my ethic back ground in it.

When I first joined my Orthodox Church I started to wonder what I was see seemed so very close to what my mother would teach me when I was young. I started to look at Sicilian history and found out that Sicilians were Byzantine Christians for the longest time.

I readed that the Sicilians were forceful converted by the Catholics a long time ago. Nice going very ecumenical on the Catholics part Hummm??? I feel that Sicilians should be shown their past and let them chooses. They are the ones that were wronged by the Roman Church. Let the Sicilians and understanted what was done to them and their families.

The Roman Church has not changed it still treat people like old rags. I’ve spoken to an Eastern Catholic and we spoke on the subject on how they are treated by the Latins. He is a religionist Archdeacon who name I will protect so he will not get a call down.

He told me that they’re treat like they are not to be trusted. They are pushed to Latinize themselves. This tells me everything about the Roman Catholic Church.

Like I said many time, look at what is done, not what is said.

Roman Catholic Church picks and chooses what is right whether it is good or not for people. I’ve seen many mistakes done by the Catholics from Liturgy revisions of Vatican II to Altar Girls that one I see as a pip. I could go on and on. If were to say why do you think the Catholic changes stuff just look at Pope Pius XXII doc. MEDIATOR DEI and you will see what he said about the Catholic and what would happen to it if it changed the Liturgy. Look and see for yourselves don’t take my words for it look for yourself.

Then tell me the Catholic Church dosen’t pick in choose evern when it comes to faith. Pope Pius XXII said that if the Church made these changes it would be in error…

Have a good day.

Frank J.

Frank we have been through all this before on here. Bringing up atrocities as anything more than proof of sinners being present in the Catholic Church. God will not be mocked, they will pay or are paying for things they did that were wrong. Additionally their “wrongness” is no more proof of anything thatn THEIR “wrongness”. It is not an indictment of the Catholic Faith anymore than particularly dark episodes in history perpetrated by those who identified themselves as Orthodox. Russian history will teach us that membership in the Orthodox communion is not tantamount to wandering through life blamelessly.

So you bring up these things by these “so-called” Catholics and interject “if you know what I mean” and franly I DO NOT know what you mean, Frank.

If you aren’t proposing that this is actual proof of a sort of the error of Catholocism (using similar litmus tests on the Orthodox would likely not be welcome and just as useless!) why bring them up? You seem to want to have it both ways. “I am not saying, I am just saying…”

 

[Hesychios]

Honestly Michael, we fell the same way. When you are ready to come back do so in full faith, we will be happy to have you abjure your rejection of the Catholic Faith.

The Orthodox have never rejected the Catholic Faith.

We Orthodox Christians have embraced it continually since 33AD.

I came a little late to the table, myself. I have no regrets about my past affiliation, it helped prepare me for the Fullness of Faith, something I appreciate very much.

Peace, and all good things

 

[Hesychios]

EXACTLY.

And there is no one to say any one party is definately wrong or definately right.

As opposed to what?

Holy Orthodoxy is right.

Michael

 

[jam070406]

The Orthodox have thousands of stolen church properties that belong to the Catholic Church, especially in the Ukraine. this is a blatant moral evil. And yet, you refuse to even acknowledge this fact.

This is true. Our Lady even visited the Ukraine.

Our Lady of Hrushiv:

On May 12, 1914, two weeks before the First World War, twenty-two people in the village of Hrushiv who were mowing fields near the local church witnessed an apparition of the Virgin. The Virgin told them: “There will be a war. Russia will become a godless country and the Ukraine, as a nation, will suffer terribly for eighty years and will have to live through the world wars, but it will be free afterward.” Then on April 27, 1987, exactly one year after the Chernobyl nuclear reactor disaster, the Virgin appeared to twelve-year-old Marina Kizyn above a small church. Subsequently, nearly five hundred thousand people witnessed the apparition as the Virgin appeared daily until August 15, often before crowds of tens of thousands at a time. The Virgin said, “I have come on purpose to thank the Ukrainian people because you have suffered most for the church of Christ in the last seventy years. I have come to comfort you and to tell you that your suffering will soon come to an end. Ukraine will become an independent state.”

About the Chernobyl catastrophe she said, “Do not forget those who have died in the Chernobyl disaster. Chernobyl is a reminder and a sign for the whole world.”

“Forgive your enemies. Through you and the blood of the martyrs will come the conversion of Russia. Repent and love one another. The times are coming which have been foretold as being those in the end times. See the desolation which surrounds the world… the sin, the sloth, the genocide. Pray for Russia. Oppression and wars continue to occupy the minds and hearts of many people. Russia, despite everything, continues to deny my Son. Russia rejects real life and continues to live in darkness… If there is not a return to Christianity in Russia there will be a Third World War and the whole world will face ruin.”

“Teach the children to pray. Teach them to live in truth and live yourselves in truth. Say the Rosary. It is the weapon against Satan. He fears the Rosary. Recite the Rosary at any gathering of people.”

motherofallpeoples.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=731&Itemid=82

 

[ASimpleSinner]

As opposed to what?

Holy Orthodoxy is right.

Michael

As opposed to what?

As opposed to when asked, should Roman Catholics be baptized or just chrisimated or recieved with profession… are their priests valid priests? the answer to all of the above is “yes” “no” and “maybe”…

Who says?

The Johnstown Greek Catholics were taken in en masse with simple profession. French monks went to Athos to get baptized. ++PHILLIP has blessed the use of a revised BCP as western rite orthodox. +ANTHONY said it was a no go.

 

[Hesychios]

The Orthodox have thousands of stolen church properties that belong to the Catholic Church, especially in the Ukraine. this is a blatant moral evil. And yet, you refuse to even acknowledge this fact.

This is true.

No, it’s not.

The issue has been in ongoing resolution for years now. There were 300 cases in dispute a few years ago and there are less now.

Exaggeration is not necessary, and not at all becoming.

Our Lady even visited the Ukraine.

That would be a different issue entirely, assuming it were true. She does not seem to be talking about Orthodox or property in your quotes here.

*Michael *