Eastern Orthodox

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Nicholas82 said:
Sorry if I seemed upset, I really wasn’t, just sort of baffled 🙂 … I’ve seen that site before, what a piece of work! The eerie music on some of the pages is definitely a nice touch . 😉
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what saddens me the most is that the Word of Our Lord has been blasphemed all around us.

:bowdown: :highprayer: :gopray2:
 
I don’t think the Orthodox could define the validity of Mysteries in the Catholic Church, even if they wanted to. There is no one to speak for them all collectively. Technically, an Eastern Orthodox could believe in the Immaculate Conception and Purgatory if they so chose.

I believe that’s another reason why they cannot call an Ecumenical Council.

Alaha minokhoun,
Andrew
 
Harpazo said:
I don’t think the Orthodox could define the validity of Mysteries in the Catholic Church, even if they wanted to. There is no one to speak for them all collectively. Technically, an Eastern Orthodox could believe in the Immaculate Conception and Purgatory if they so chose.

I believe that’s another reason why they cannot call an Ecumenical Council.

Alaha minokhoun,
Andrew
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How would they call one??? Does anyone know the answer to that??
 
charlesbarkley said:
How would they call one??? Does anyone know the answer to that??
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There’s no one to call an Ecumenical Council. Each National-State Church could call their own respective synods, but there is no one that can call an Ecumenical Council on behalf of all the Eastern Orthodox Churches.

Alaha minokhoun,
Andrew
 
Harpazo said:
I don’t think the Orthodox could define the validity of Mysteries in the Catholic Church, even if they wanted to.
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They shouldn’t want to. It’s a distraction that doesn’t concern us.
There is no one to speak for them all collectively. Technically, an Eastern Orthodox could believe in the Immaculate Conception and Purgatory if they so chose.
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I believe that’s another reason why they cannot call an Ecumenical Council.
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We can. Just don’t have the need so far.
Harpazo said:
There’s no one to call an Ecumenical Council. Each National-State Church could call their own respective synods, but there is no one that can call an Ecumenical Council on behalf of all the Eastern Orthodox Churches.

Alaha minokhoun,
Andrew
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The Patriarch of Jerusalem call the Pan-Orthodox Synod of Jerusalem, and several Pan Orthodox Councils have been called by the EP. Should the need arise, calling an Ecumenical Council would not prove a problem.
 
Eastern Orthodoxy has no externally verifiable authority. For them, right-belief is proclaimed by right-believers. So before you can know what the right belief is according to them, you have to determine who the right-believers are. Even ecumenical Councils have to be received by the right-believers–they are not authoritative in and of themselves. Of course, it becomes apparent that this leads nowhere fast.

Here’s an article that explores this in more depth (it is in the context of a person conversion story so there is a bit long):

rtforum.org/lt/lt133.html#Harrison
 
Harpazo said:
There’s no one to call an Ecumenical Council. Each National-State Church could call their own respective synods, but there is no one that can call an Ecumenical Council on behalf of all the Eastern Orthodox Churches.

Alaha minokhoun,
Andrew
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To make matters worse, even if they did call a pan orthodox council, there is no way for them to no for sure if its an Ecumenical council or not.
 
East_and_West said:
To make matters worse, even if they did call a pan orthodox council, there is no way for them to no for sure if its an Ecumenical council or not.
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Whereas the Roman Catholic Church could be sure a council it called would be “ecumenical” because it says so. :confused: :rolleyes:
 
Genesis315 said:
Of course, it becomes apparent that this leads nowhere fast.
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Nowhere being defined as holding fast to the Apostolic Faith, changing nothing, and somewhere being defined as the innovations of the Catholic Church.

I’ll take nowhere anyday…👍

Yours in Christ
Joe
 
josephdaniel29 said:
Nowhere being defined as holding fast to the Apostolic Faith, changing nothing, and somewhere being defined as the innovations of the Catholic Church.

I’ll take nowhere anyday…👍

Yours in Christ
Joe
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As will I… the day a “clown Mass” takes place in an Orthodox Church, gimme a call. :rolleyes: 👍
 
josephdaniel29 said:
Nowhere being defined as holding fast to the Apostolic Faith, changing nothing, and somewhere being defined as the innovations of the Catholic Church.
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But how does one determine what is the Apostolic faith? When confusion filled the empire, how was the matter settled so the faithful who sought the truth could know it? When the Early Fathers disagree, who can settle the matter?

What happens in reality is most Orthodox do not actually follow the principle that the whole Church (which is defined as right-believers)is the final authority. They generally accept the judgment of a Council of prelates (authorized by previous prelates, etc. back to the Apostles) which intends to bind the entire Church (or which is later made binding on the entire Church).

In terms of innovation, it was the Orthodox who officially abandoned this principle when their prelates, during movements of anti-Latinism, decided certain pan-Councils were in error and reprobated them. The general faithful were never before permitted to judge the acts of such a Council–they could be and were excommunicated forthwith if they denied its acts. Yet now, the principle is stated as official (again by prelates; which is internally inconsistent with the doctrine they are proclaiming) that there is no binding teaching authority.

Again, as I said before, the Eastern Orthodox people who have been able to generally maintain the faith have done so because they do cling to a past externally verifiable authority–and the historical snapshot of the authority they cling to included the Apostolic See of Rome. They cling to no authority that does not include the See of Rome.
 
Nicholas82 said:
As will I… the day a “clown Mass” takes place in an Orthodox Church, gimme a call. :rolleyes: 👍
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Maybe not a clown Mass in particular, but read, for example, some letters of St. Basil the Great or others. Grave liturgical abuse is not something unheard of in the true Church.

A set of beliefs that is internally inconsistent cannot be true, even if the society of those who have that as their rule have less dissenters from that rule or more pristine appearances. If the Orthodox doctrine is taken to its logical conclusions it becomes completely subjective–of course, taking things to their logical conclusion is seen as Latin innovation…

There are plenty of erroneous religious groups and churches that have very ardent faithful and even beautiful liturgies–and there have also been times when what we all agree was the true Church in the first millennium was much less pristine and appeared much more buffeted by waves than certain heretical sects.
 
charlesbarkley said:
So the answer is NO??? You do not officially recognize the catholic Eucharist as the Real Presence?? Or Catholic confession or Anointing of the Sick as valid?
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CharlesB,

It might help to consider this: in 1896 Pope Leo XIII declared in Apostolicae Curae Anglican Holy Orders are “absolutely null and utterly void”. From that time onward, Catholics have not been permitted to hold the opinion that Anglican Orders or Holy Communion are valid.

However, prior to that time Catholic were allowed to hold either opinion. (Of course, even if a 19th century Catholic held the opinion that Anglican Orders were valid, he/she would still not have been permitted to request Holy Communion from an Anglican minister.) This is, I think, much more similar to way it is in Orthodoxy: an Orthodox won’t be excommunicated for believing that Catholic Orders are valid or invalid.

Hope that helps.
-Peter.
 
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