Eastern Orthodox?

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Not meaning to put too fine a point on it, but Wow, are you saying you’re more bothered by Prodromos’s post than by the post he was responding to?
Well, I certainly don’t agree that all modern Orthodox are as JurisPrudens claims, nor that they have their traditions “out of spite” for Catholics (but rather perhaps because they simply grew up in that faith), but I have, over the months, come across a few Orthodox online* that tend to share the views JurisPrudens was explaining.

  • Not on this forum, mind you.
 
Not meaning to put too fine a point on it, but Wow, are you saying you’re more bothered by Prodromos’s post than by the post he was responding to?
My post expresses my humble understanding, as far as my erudition goes and as far as answers the straightforward question of the OP. Of course, I’m answering from my Catholic perspective, from my own bias. The Orthodox posters may provide a more accurate information, which, nevertheless, will also be from their biased PoV.
 
Well, I certainly don’t agree that all modern Orthodox are as JurisPrudens claims, nor that they have their traditions “out of spite” for Catholics (but rather perhaps because they simply grew up in that faith), but I have, over the months, come across a few Orthodox online* that tend to share the views JurisPrudens was explaining.

  • Not on this forum, mind you.
Well, I will respect your right to your opinions … or as we used to say it’s a “free country”. :cool:

But I’ll keep my own opinions about your opinions to myself. Good Lent to you!
 
Can someone explain in a concise way the difference between RC and Eastern Orthodox? Why do they say they are the true church and RC is not?
I’ll try to be as concise as possible, especially since I am a convert from Catholicism.

1.) The biggest difference is over the papacy and Papal Supremacy. The Orthodox do not believe that the bishopric of Rome holds any more theological significance than any other bishopric. They recognize its historical significance, but feel that today it has fallen into heresy/heterodoxy. And while they recognize its Petrine status, they do not see how its Petrine status differs from either Antioch or Alexandria’s. In the past, they only recognized Rome as First Amongst Equals in honor.

2.) Original Sin (Catholic/Protestant) vs. Ancestral Sin (Orthodox). Today, the Catholic Church and the Orthodox Church do not differ significantly from their understanding of Man’s fallen nature. However, in the past the Latin West often bought wholesale into Augustine’s extreme positions on Original Sin and even endorsed predestination. So while this difference is no longer existent, it is still something to be aware of.

3.) Communion. Catholics generally wait until a child reaches a certain age before allowing them to receive communion. Orthodox, however, allow them to receive it regardless of age.

4.) Confession. Unlike Catholicism, Orthodox usually have to schedule a personal meeting with their priest for confession. There is no weekend period for confessions as with most Catholic parishes in the USA. Additionally, the confession generally takes much longer, as long as 2-3 hours in some cases, because the priest wants to know all of the details and circumstances of your problems. The priest gives a penance, but the purpose is less tied up with the idea of Purgatory (which the Orthodox reject), and is more concerned with helping you avoid the situations that give rise to sin or at least helping you overcome them. The advice is usually more than a prayer and is specific.

5.) Marriage. Orthodox regard marriage as a sacrament. However, they also recognize that is not the same as baptism, which is forever (since Christ himself granted ground for divorce). So should a marriage tragically fail, they may grant a canonical divorce (not to be confused with an annulment) and allow for a second marriage. But the ceremony for a second marriage involving a divorce is kept solemn in acknowledgment of the participant’s past failure.

6.) Birth Control. Orthodox all condemn abortifacients. That being said, the position on other methods of birth control is not unanimous, such as with condoms. Many have no problem with it as long as it is used within a marriage and in consultation with the parish priest. Others hold a position much closer to the Roman Catholic position, but also generally reject Natural Family Planning too.

7.) Filioque. Orthodox reject the filioque clause of the creed for at least the reason that it inserted into the Nicene Creed unilaterally. Most also believe it to be heretical. The topic is a deep one, so I cannot give an adequate summary about the matter here. As for my own interest in Orthodoxy, I didn’t really pay much attention to the Filioque until after I converted.

Seven general differences seems to be a good number to stop at. I also recommend attending an Orthodox service in English if possible so you can experience more of its flavor. As for why we consider ourselves the one true church, that’s a matter that is of more historical concern. I feel like I’ve already explained a little bit of this aspect of it. That being said, I would be more than happy to provide you with a list of academic books and articles written by Catholics, Anglicans, Orthodox, and secularists on the matter. That way you can reach your own conclusions without fear of severe bias, whatever course of conversion you wind up taking (or staying where you are). Just let me know if you’d like me to share with you my list of suggested reading materials concerning this historical issue.

Note for my Catholic friends: I realize some of these claims, particularly the historical ones, will undoubtedly cause you to object. However, please recognize that I am merely presenting the general Orthodox perspective on the question that the OP asked. I am not asking for a debate, nor will I engage in one on this thread.
 
I sifted through all this but didn’t see any mentions on canons.

Their bible has more books…I think three more.

They revere Mary like we do and interpret John 6 on the Eucharist the same way we do but don’t define things like we do. (Transubstantiation)

They acknowledge the first 7 ecumenical councils.

They called Peter “first among equals”. So they don’t recognize him as Pope.

Their priests get married.
 
3.) Communion. Catholics generally wait until a child reaches a certain age before allowing them to receive communion. Orthodox, however, allow them to receive it regardless of age.

4.) Confession. Unlike Catholicism, Orthodox usually have to schedule a personal meeting with their priest for confession. There is no weekend period for confessions as with most Catholic parishes in the USA. Additionally, the confession generally takes much longer, as long as 2-3 hours in some cases, because the priest wants to know all of the details and circumstances of your problems. The priest gives a penance, but the purpose is less tied up with the idea of Purgatory (which the Orthodox reject), and is more concerned with helping you avoid the situations that give rise to sin or at least helping you overcome them. The advice is usually more than a prayer and is specific.
Thanks. But these two are just the differences in the Rites, they are also present with Eastern Catholics.
 
I sifted through all this but didn’t see any mentions on canons.

Their bible has more books…I think three more.

Their priests get married.
Their Bible is the same in text, only the structure of the chapters is slightly different.

Eastern Catholic priests are also married.
 
My post expresses my humble understanding, as far as my erudition goes and as far as answers the straightforward question of the OP. Of course, I’m answering from my Catholic perspective, from my own bias. The Orthodox posters may provide a more accurate information, which, nevertheless, will also be from their biased PoV.
What you have to understand is that I have been down this road so, so many times that it doesn’t make any sense to go down it again. So, so many times on the internet have I seen a hardcore traditionalist Catholic post something like
I join everything mentioned above.

Also, in addition to what was said, the modern Orthodox, out of spite to Catholics, are trying to highlight the differences in accents in some theological questions and turn them into the full-scale theological differences. Namely:
  1. They claim that the Pope is not a primate and not infallible. They recognize only the first Seven Ecumenical Councils. And the Eighth one, which restored Photius into position in the 10th century.
  2. They claim that the words “Who proceeds from the Father and the Son” in the Creed should only read as “Who proceeds from the Father”, and that this is a matter of significance.
  3. They claim that the dogma of the Immaculate Conception of Mary is an innovation of the Catholics. They also seem to be suspicious of the dogma of Mary’s Bodily Assumption.
  4. They usually deny our Catholic doctrine of substitutionary atonement of the Christ, usually claiming that Christ did not redeem humanity from our debt to God, but redeemed us from someone(thing) else. What did He redeemed us from, they have controversies about. Some say, from the Devil, some - from the “Death”, some - from “reality itself”.
  5. They deny the doctrine of Purgatory. Instead, they usually believe in “Celestial Toll-Houses”, which are the private judgment over dead people, anticipating the Final Judgement at the Second Coming. Generally, the Orthodox understanding of the afterlife is less deterministic than that of the Western Christianity. There is an opinion among them that even after Your death, even if You die without a grave (mortal) sin, the demons may somehow capture Your soul, if You did not take enough sacraments in the earthly life. They also have a different understanding of the “Beatific vision”, claiming that even the saints cannot see the God as He really is.
  6. There is an opinion, especially among the Russian Orthodox, that the Transubstantiation during the Eucharist occurs not at the moment of the Words of Institution, but during the Epiclesis. This is facilitated by the fact that in the Byzantine liturgy the Epiclesis follows the Words of Institution, not precedes them.
  7. Finally, they have their own doctrine of Hesychasm, which was confirmed by one of their provincial councils. Long story short, according to this doctrine, one may see the mystical Divine Light even before death, by following certain meditative practices. The Roman Catholic Church, so far, has been very wary of this doctrine.
But all that is more of the way of putting the correct stresses than of the true differences (except the Papal superiority, maybe). The true reasons for the differences lie in the culture and politics, as well as the Orthodox intent to have as little in common as possible with the “God-damn Latins”. The Schism was not an instant event. The Russian Princes, for example, maintained relationships with Rome for about a century after the Schism; only the jealousy of the Greek-born theologians on Russian soil gradually persuaded the Rus that the West is “evil”.
and then others act like he/she is the real victim, or just needs understanding, or the Orthodox shouldn’t be so thin-skinned, or whatever (I don’t want to go through all the variations of this road that I have been down) – which is their right and all, but I’m just choosing not to engage.
 
What you have understand is that I have been down this road so, so many times that it doesn’t make any sense to go down it again. So, so many times on the internet have I seen a hardcore traditionalist Catholic post something like

and then others act like he/she is the real victim, or just needs understanding, or the Orthodox shouldn’t be so thin-skinned, or whatever (I don’t want to go through all the variations of this road that I have been down) – which is their right and all, but I’m just choosing not to engage.
🤷
 
Doesn’t “it’s a free country” (see my earlier post to Micosil) cut both ways? Or am I not “free” to not engage with your statements about the Orthodox?

Seems like that shouldn’t even need to be asked.
 
Doesn’t “it’s a free country” (see my earlier post to Micosil) cut both ways? Or am I not “free” to not engage with your statements about the Orthodox?

Seems like that shouldn’t even need to be asked.
I just don’t understand the point of the discussion anymore. I meant no offence, only expressed my understanding. And took no offence so far, BTW. 🙂
 
Ok, point taken. :rolleyes:
The point being, you are not in any way shape or form, an authority on what the Orthodox Church teaches, and should make it clear that what you are posting is only your opinion. That way you can avoid bearing false witness.
 
4.) Confession. Unlike Catholicism, Orthodox usually have to schedule a personal meeting with their priest for confession. There is no weekend period for confessions as with most Catholic parishes in the USA. Additionally, the confession generally takes much longer, as long as 2-3 hours in some cases, because the priest wants to know all of the details and circumstances of your problems. The priest gives a penance, but the purpose is less tied up with the idea of Purgatory (which the Orthodox reject), and is more concerned with helping you avoid the situations that give rise to sin or at least helping you overcome them. The advice is usually more than a prayer and is specific.
Every Orthodox parish I am familiar with has a regular weekend (usually Saturday nights, sometimes Sunday morning before Liturgy) period for confessions. Confessions can be scheduled individually, but this is not a requirement. Confessions on average last slightly longer than in the RC church (I have been both Ortho and RC), but 2-3 hour confession would be a rare occurence.
 
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