Eastern Orthodox?

[Peter_J]

Less than half of one percent of them

I haven’t counted married Catholic priests, but I can believe it’s a small percentage.

 

[Augustine]

7) Finally, they have their own doctrine of Hesychasm, which was confirmed by one of their provincial councils. Long story short, according to this doctrine, one may see the mystical Divine Light even before death, by following certain meditative practices. The Roman Catholic Church, so far, has been very wary of this doctrine.
Micosil;13672117:

Never heard of this before.

Methinks that this is a matter of different terminologis. St. Teresa of Avila taught pretty much along the same lines in her “Interior Castle”, which she called “Spiritual Marriage”, though by different means, yet treading the same path, as Hesychasm.

Pax Christi

 

[Augustine]

Their bible has more books…I think three more.

Actually, 1 Esdras, 2 Esdras, Prayer of Manasseh, Psalm 151, 3 Maccabees, 4 Maccabees, Odes. But, IIRC, they usually are in an appendix and are not considered inspired. Still, I’d appreciate if I were corrected or enriched in my understanding of the Orthodox canon.

Pax Christi

 

[wynd]

Since no one appears to have addressed this yet:

They also seem to be suspicious of the dogma of Mary’s Bodily Assumption.

What we are “suspicious” of is the belief that the Theotokos did not die. Our hymns and icons very clearly teach her death along with her bodily assumption.

 

[Lenten_ashes]

Actually, 1 Esdras, 2 Esdras, Prayer of Manasseh, Psalm 151, 3 Maccabees, 4 Maccabees, Odes. But, IIRC, they usually are in an appendix and are not considered inspired. Still, I’d appreciate if I were corrected or enriched in my understanding of the Orthodox canon.

Pax Christi

I have a Orthodox bible in front of me that I got from a Greek Orthodox church, and it doesn’t contain 4 Maacabees. Not sure about the others you listed.

So anyway, I think the Orthodox may not have one canon they have settled on

 

[Peter_J]

I have a Orthodox bible in front of me that I got from a Greek Orthodox church, and it doesn’t contain 4 Maacabees. Not sure about the others you listed.

So anyway, I think the Orthodox may not have one canon they have settled on

I don’t want to speak for them, but they definitely don’t consider Trent to be an ecumenical council.

 

[Lenten_ashes]

I don’t want to speak for them, but they definitely don’t consider Trent to be an ecumenical council.

They only recognize the first 7 ecumenical councils if I am not mistaken.

 

[Augustine]

I don’t want to speak for them, but they definitely don’t consider Trent to be an ecumenical council.

Of course, the canon of the Bible was settled in the West by the 4th century, in particular with the Latin Vulgate.

Pax Christi

 

[Augustine]

I have a Orthodox bible in front of me that I got from a Greek Orthodox church, and it doesn’t contain 4 Maacabees. Not sure about the others you listed.

It’s a checkerboard: bit.ly/1SGs20P

Pax Christi

 

[pablope]

Can someone explain in a concise way the difference between RC and Eastern Orthodox? Why do they say they are the true church and RC is not?

These two articles may be of help:

catholicculture.org/culture/library/view.cfm?recnum=1355

calledtocommunion.com/2011/06/st-optatus-on-schism-and-the-bishop-of-rome/

 

[Peter_J]

Of course, the canon of the Bible was settled in the West by the 4th century, in particular with the Latin Vulgate.

Pax Christi

And Trent just wasn’t aware of that? I find that hard to believe.

(Or do you mean just the NT canon?)

 

[Augustine]

And Trent just wasn’t aware of that? I find that hard to believe.

(Or do you mean just the NT canon?)

Just the canon. The canon had been fixed for centuries before Trent. What Trent did was to declare the canon dogmatic, i.e., end of discussion.

Pax Christi

 

[twf]

Since no one appears to have addressed this yet:

What we are “suspicious” of is the belief that the Theotokos did not die. Our hymns and icons very clearly teach her death along with her bodily assumption.

That Our Lady died and then shared in the resurrection of Her Son is also the traditional Catholic view. It is taught by nearly all Catholic authorities. The iconography at St Mary’s Major in Rome, the most important Marian church in Latin Christendom, depicts the Dormition. It is a modern novelty to suggest Our Lady did not first die before her resurrection and assumption. It’s a popular belief here on CAF, but it was invented in recent centuries and is as foreign to the Latin tradition as it is to the East.

 

[twf]

I’ll try to be as concise as possible, especially since I am a convert from Catholicism.

1.) The biggest difference is over the papacy and Papal Supremacy. The Orthodox do not believe that the bishopric of Rome holds any more theological significance than any other bishopric. They recognize its historical significance, but feel that today it has fallen into heresy/heterodoxy. And while they recognize its Petrine status, they do not see how its Petrine status differs from either Antioch or Alexandria’s. In the past, they only recognized Rome as First Amongst Equals in honor.

2.) Original Sin (Catholic/Protestant) vs. Ancestral Sin (Orthodox). Today, the Catholic Church and the Orthodox Church do not differ significantly from their understanding of Man’s fallen nature. However, in the past the Latin West often bought wholesale into Augustine’s extreme positions on Original Sin and even endorsed predestination. So while this difference is no longer existent, it is still something to be aware of.

3.) Communion. Catholics generally wait until a child reaches a certain age before allowing them to receive communion. Orthodox, however, allow them to receive it regardless of age.

4.) Confession. Unlike Catholicism, Orthodox usually have to schedule a personal meeting with their priest for confession. There is no weekend period for confessions as with most Catholic parishes in the USA. Additionally, the confession generally takes much longer, as long as 2-3 hours in some cases, because the priest wants to know all of the details and circumstances of your problems. The priest gives a penance, but the purpose is less tied up with the idea of Purgatory (which the Orthodox reject), and is more concerned with helping you avoid the situations that give rise to sin or at least helping you overcome them. The advice is usually more than a prayer and is specific.

5.) Marriage. Orthodox regard marriage as a sacrament. However, they also recognize that is not the same as baptism, which is forever (since Christ himself granted ground for divorce). So should a marriage tragically fail, they may grant a canonical divorce (not to be confused with an annulment) and allow for a second marriage. But the ceremony for a second marriage involving a divorce is kept solemn in acknowledgment of the participant’s past failure.

6.) Birth Control. Orthodox all condemn abortifacients. That being said, the position on other methods of birth control is not unanimous, such as with condoms. Many have no problem with it as long as it is used within a marriage and in consultation with the parish priest. Others hold a position much closer to the Roman Catholic position, but also generally reject Natural Family Planning too.

7.) Filioque. Orthodox reject the filioque clause of the creed for at least the reason that it inserted into the Nicene Creed unilaterally. Most also believe it to be heretical. The topic is a deep one, so I cannot give an adequate summary about the matter here. As for my own interest in Orthodoxy, I didn’t really pay much attention to the Filioque until after I converted.

Seven general differences seems to be a good number to stop at. I also recommend attending an Orthodox service in English if possible so you can experience more of its flavor. As for why we consider ourselves the one true church, that’s a matter that is of more historical concern. I feel like I’ve already explained a little bit of this aspect of it. That being said, I would be more than happy to provide you with a list of academic books and articles written by Catholics, Anglicans, Orthodox, and secularists on the matter. That way you can reach your own conclusions without fear of severe bias, whatever course of conversion you wind up taking (or staying where you are). Just let me know if you’d like me to share with you my list of suggested reading materials concerning this historical issue.

Note for my Catholic friends: I realize some of these claims, particularly the historical ones, will undoubtedly cause you to object. However, please recognize that I am merely presenting the general Orthodox perspective on the question that the OP asked. I am not asking for a debate, nor will I engage in one on this thread.

I think your comments on confession are too general to be overly helpful. I have relatives who are Orthodox and the priest hears confessions before every liturgy - people line Up and it didn’t seem to take very long. Likewise in Catholicism, people can and do schedule appointments for confession and a good confessor will give Indepth and personalized advice. There are Dominican Friars in a local parish who hear confessions before and after every Sunday mass. The lines are long and move slowly because the priests take long (sometimes up to a half hour) with each penitent.
Modern popes and most priests I’ve known definitely emphasize confession as a place of healing where we encounter the Living Christ. Sure, purgatory may be in the back of our mind but it definitely isn’t the focus.

 

[Oktava]

Western Christianity developed theology it’s own way, and the East went it’s own way until it was impossible to ignore the differences. Politics only made it happen faster,
Small group of Eastern Catholics somehow ignore these differences and keep union with Rome.

 

[Rohzek]

I think your comments on confession are too general to be overly helpful. I have relatives who are Orthodox and the priest hears confessions before every liturgy - people line Up and it didn’t seem to take very long. Likewise in Catholicism, people can and do schedule appointments for confession and a good confessor will give Indepth and personalized advice. There are Dominican Friars in a local parish who hear confessions before and after every Sunday mass. The lines are long and move slowly because the priests take long (sometimes up to a half hour) with each penitent.
Modern popes and most priests I’ve known definitely emphasize confession as a place of healing where we encounter the Living Christ. Sure, purgatory may be in the back of our mind but it definitely isn’t the focus.

Aside from the purgatory remarks, which I disagree with (it remained a major part of the sacrament when I was Catholic), everything you have said has already been corrected in this thread.

 

[twf]

Aside from the purgatory remarks, which I disagree with (it remained a major part of the sacrament when I was Catholic), everything you have said has already been corrected in this thread.

May I ask when you were Catholic? I can probably count on one hand the number of times I’ve heard the word purgatory mentioned by a priest in the 11 years I’ve been Catholic- in multiple dioceses / parishes. Never once in the confessional. Of course there are differences in our understanding of purgation after death, but certainly since Vatican II the West placed a renewed emphasis on confession as a remedial encounter with Christ the Good Doctor. For better or for worse, confessional booths were often replaced with reconciliation rooms where you meet with the priest face to face. As a note of interest, in my wife’s native Dominican Republic, where I have spent a lot of time, face to face confession in the church proper is the only method practiced (at least as far as my experience goes).

 

[Micosil]

Western Christianity developed theology it’s own way, and the East went it’s own way until it was impossible to ignore the differences. Politics only made it happen faster,
Small group of Eastern Catholics somehow ignore these differences and keep union with Rome.

From what I see, there really aren’t actual differences. Just different focuses, or different emphases.

 

[Oktava]

From what I see, there really aren’t actual differences. Just different focuses, or different emphases.

There are differences, core differences, in very way of thinking. It all starts with premise that Orthodox East teaches that you cant be a person if you don’t relate to another person (ipostas) that is why God is Holy Trinity. While the west teaches that you are person on your own. From this the two sides developed different approach on original sin and Holy Trinity, then in 1014 Rome finally introduced different Creed without consulting the Eastern Church and the Great Schism emerged.
Orthodox remained frozen in time, because Orthodox do not like to change almost anything, and because of slavery to the Ottoman Empire, while the Latin west introduced new stuff in to the faith, and now Schism cannot be healed.

 

[Tomdstone]

From what I see, there really aren’t actual differences. Just different focuses, or different emphases.

If so, it really did not make any sense for the Roman Catholic legates to excommunicate Michael Cerularius.