Eastern Orthodoxy and Nationalism

  • Thread starter Thread starter Matthew_Holford
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
M

Matthew_Holford

Guest
It is widely perceived in the West that Eastern Orthodox Churches are highly nationalistic. Is this perception a misconception? How can you demonstrate this to be the case?

If the Eastern Orthodox Churches are nationalistic, how can this fit comfortably with Christ’s teachings?
 
Hello Matthew,
It is widely perceived in the West that Eastern Orthodox Churches are highly nationalistic. Is this perception a misconception? How can you demonstrate this to be the case?

If the Eastern Orthodox Churches are nationalistic, how can this fit comfortably with Christ’s teachings?
I am not going to challenge the fact that eastern churches are nationalistic. The church recognizes that this can be a problem, you can read here for more information.

It is not actually an exclusively Orthodox phenomenon, but that doesn’t make it ok.

On the other hand, the Apostles went out to preach the Good News to all nations, they were not consciously attempting to destroy the concept of nations, just convert them all. We are supposed to see Christ in everyone, and we are not to hide the Light of Truth under a basket.

So it’s ok to preach and teach aliens, and reach them by any means. The problem comes from people identifying their religion closely with their nationality to the point that they become unwelcoming to others. That is exactly the opposite of what Christians are supposed to do.

Essentally, if an Orthodox person moves from one country to another that person will attend the local Orthodox church. The Romanian Orthodox church does not build parishes in Russia or Poland (the Russian and Polish churches are there), and the Polish Orthodox church does not build parishes in Romania or Serbia. These people join local parishes under the hierarchy of the local church, because thay are Orthodox and that is now their home church.

The early church was composed of local synods in communion with one another. It wasn’t an ‘imperial’ church, it was a collection of locally run churches in and out of the empire. Some of these churches were outside the empire from their very beginnings, like the Armenian church and the church in India. Others were within the empire, and it seems that the Fathers decided to use political bounds to delineate the extent of each church’s reach, presumably to avoid overlappping and competing with one another.

Within the empire these provincial bounderies often corresponded to national groupings, it was a reality everyone recognized and understood.

people.ucalgary.ca/~vandersp/Courses/maps/fullmap1.jpg

North America is a special case.

My home parish is a cathedral originally founded as a mission of the Russian church. From it’s inception it has always had a mixed congregation (Russians, Serbs, Ukrainians, Romanians etc.), but that mix has changed over the decades. It now includes Irish, Germans, Poles and African-Americans as well as some descendants of the original population.

Most north Americans see numerous national or ethnic varieties of Orthodox, and wonder about that. It wasn’t that way from the beginning. The Russian church was established early, and other Orthodox migrating tended to join the local (Russian) church if one was available. Of course this made some immigrants uncomfortable and probably would have inhibited their spiritual growth but when enough of a certain nationality would live in a city, they would sometimes choose to erect a new parish for themselves, under the Russian bishops. Priests would come on invitation from those countries to serve these parishes. To address this need the Russian church began to provide bishops for these immigrant groups, I think it first provided an Arabic/Syrian bishop for that population.

Then the Bolshevik revolution occured. The Russian church was suppressed and people were afraid of the possibility that atheists were taking control. In fact there was a large emigre/refugee population of Russians fleeing the communists who refused to have anything to do with the Moscow church. So in America there was a schism, with two Russian hierarchies (the one originally in place, and the refugee bishops who fled but didn’t have a diocese waiting for them). In addition to this some other Orthodox synods sent bishops to care for the flocks from their own countries. Those must have been sad times for the church

This uncanonical situation was to hopefully have been temporary, until the crises passed. Then after WWII the communists overran eastern Europe as well and there were new divisions between those who remained loyal to their home churches and those who would not for fear of church collaboration and subversion. It was quite a mess. 🤷

Today the schisms are almost all gone (the Serbs have reunited and the Russians have reunited, for example), but the Orthodox still have some parallel overlapping hierarchies. There has been a lot of progress in knitting these together and eventually this uncanonical situation should come to an end.

But there will probably always be immigrant communities which will be served in their own languages, it’s rather unavoidable if people keep migrating in sufficient numbers.
 
Has there been any other moves to unify the many national Orthodox Churches that are in North America into a single patriarchy or group since the Ligonier Meeting in '94? From my perspective, it would make Orthodoxy a lot easier for North Americans to understand and approach if they were unified. Though I come from a church tradition where each individual church is autonomous, so I would understand why each Orthodox church would not want to do that.
 
Hi George,
Has there been any other moves to unify the many national Orthodox Churches that are in North America into a single patriarchy or group since the Ligonier Meeting in '94? From my perspective, it would make Orthodoxy a lot easier for North Americans to understand and approach if they were unified. Though I come from a church tradition where each individual church is autonomous, so I would understand why each Orthodox church would not want to do that.
Thank you for asking.

SCOBA has beeen retired. By mutual agreement it has been replaced by a new structure called the Assembly of Canonical Orthodox Bishops of North and Central America now in it’s second year.

The Assembly has been established in accordance with the Decision of the 4th Pre-Conciliar Pan-Orthodox Conference, convoked in Chambésy, Switzerland, June 6-12, 2009, at which met representatives from all the universally-recognized autocephalous Orthodox churches. These representatives recognized substantial canonical ‘anomalies’ in the organization and life of the Church in these regions, and realized that, though these anomalies had arisen from specific historical circumstances and pastoral needs, they nonetheless present a number of serious problems for the faithful; moreover, they give an appearance of disunity in the one holy Church. As such, these representatives unanimously agreed to the formation of the assemblies of bishops to heal, as quickly as possible, these anomalies.

The purpose of the Assembly of Bishops of North and Central America is to preserve and contribute to the unity of the Orthodox Church by helping to further her spiritual, theological, ecclesiological, canonical, educational, missionary and philanthropic aims. To accomplish this, the Assembly has as its goals: i) the proclamation and promotion of Church unity in North and Central America; ii) the strengthening of the common pastoral ministry to all the Orthodox faithful of this region; and iii) a common witness by the Church to all those outside her. In addition, the Assembly has as an express goal iv) the organization of the Church in North and Central America in accordance with the ecclesiological and the canonical tradition of the Orthodox Church.

The Assembly, which meets annually, functions by a consensus of all its members. It has established a number of committees to help further its work. These committees are charged by the Assembly with specific tasks; they are made up of member bishops, and are assisted by lay and clergy advisors. The Assembly understands itself to be the successor of SCOBA, and as such, it has assumed all of its agencies, dialogues, and other ministries.

Unlike SCOBA however, the Assembly is a transitional body. If it achieves its goal, it will make itself obsolete by developing a proposal for the canonical organization of the Church in North and Central America. …

http://www.assemblyofbishops.org/files/homepage/2011meeting-table.jpg

Baby steps.
 
As usual brother Hesychios your responses are worth digesting. I shall savour this one and the hyperlink provided. However, that will have to tomorrow, or rather later today, as it is time (01:51) that I ought to be to bed.
 
It is widely perceived in the West that Eastern Orthodox Churches are highly nationalistic. Is this perception a misconception? How can you demonstrate this to be the case?

If the Eastern Orthodox Churches are nationalistic, how can this fit comfortably with Christ’s teachings?
My friend Hesychios knows but I do not understand. Orthodox churches are often national churches of many countries - popular church of most people. So there is Greek, Russian Romanian, Serbian Orthodox church. This is true in Catolic church also - church is dominant in Ireland, Poland, Italy and there are there Irish, Polish and Italian Catolic churches. What is problem??

Does Christ not tell apostls to convert all peoples and nations! What is wrong with being a nation! Is it you do not like Russians and Greeks and Serbs ?? Why are they less following Christ than Irish Catolics or Polish Catolics??
 
Is it you do not like Russians and Greeks and Serbs??
I do not know any persons of these nationilities. I do not dislike these or any other nationality and have never intimated that I do. I dislike people who twist my words into things that I did not say, especially where they are trying to imply I am racist.:mad:
Why are they less following Christ than Irish Catolics or Polish Catolics??
I think it would be of value for you to read post more clearly. I have not said anything that remotely reflects your interpretation of my words.😦
 
In my original post I was referring more to circumstances when the Church supports that state. An example would be the Serbian Orthodox Church’s support of the Serbian state against its neigbouring states and Muslims.

I do not claim that this is wholly the case with the Orthodox Churches. One only has to lokk at the troubles in Northern Ireland, in my own country. There have also been troubles between Catholic and Protestants in my own city.
 
Mathew, sorry, I am not understanding English perhaps. I never accuse you or racism - Russians are a nation not a race, so are Greeks. But does not Catholic Church of Spain support Franco government, did not French Catolic church support French Bourbons .

But can support their government which perhaps is doing some things bad, but in general churches support patriotism, love of country. Not zenophobia but patriotism. I don’t see why Orthodox church supporting its government is different from Luthernan church of Sweden, or Catolic church in Poland supporting particular political parties to control Polish state.

I am sorry you think i have insult you. I only show I am ignorant of details of English. But also I defend my Church and my country as I should.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top