Eastern Orthodoxy - question about infallibilityDo the Do the

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Do the autocephalous, eastern orthodox churches claim to teach infallibly regarding their established doctrines? If so where can I find that official position, in writing? Thanks, Joe
 
joe370 said:
Do the autocephalous, eastern orthodox churches claim to teach infallibly regarding their established doctrines? If so where can I find that official position, in writing? Thanks, Joe
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I am sure anything that is true in the doctrines of the Church is infallible to the Church that expresses that truth. In truth the infallibility of Orthodox doctrine and how the Orthodox Churches do govern themselves comes from those Ecumenical councils of the past. Whereas the Catholic Church has shifted the responsibility of Infallibility more unto their Popes the Eastern Orthodox have maintained the General Ecumenical councils as their guarantee of what infallibility means to them. The Orthodox look to those councils with the same weight as Catholics look to their Pope. So in fact where you are in the Church infallibility is taught. The Orthodox hold dear to these truths just as much as Catholics do to theirs. The only real infallibility is really what concerns God. Any definition on God, any truth that is His is infallible. Church customs and ways can change in time and it more often now than it was before. But truth about God cannot change.
 
joe370 said:
Do the autocephalous, eastern orthodox churches claim to teach infallibly regarding their established doctrines? If so where can I find that official position, in writing? Thanks, Joe
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In the Orthodox Church, only God is infallible.
 
chimo said:
I am sure anything that is true in the doctrines of the Church is infallible to the Church that expresses that truth. In truth the infallibility of Orthodox doctrine and how the Orthodox Churches do govern themselves comes from those Ecumenical councils of the past. Whereas the Catholic Church has shifted the responsibility of Infallibility more unto their Popes the Eastern Orthodox have maintained the General Ecumenical councils as their guarantee of what infallibility means to them. The Orthodox look to those councils with the same weight as Catholics look to their Pope.
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I was hoping to leave critiques directed at the CC out of the discussion, if possible. 👍 So the autocephalous, eastern orthodox churches do in fact claim to teach infallibly regarding their established doctrines? Where can I find that official position, in writing?🙂
 
ConstantineTG said:
In the Orthodox Church, only God is infallible.
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Chimo seems to disagree with you, I think…I’ll let him comment. So, the autocephalous, eastern orthodox churches** do not claim** to teach infallibly regarding their established doctrines? If they did make that claim it would be because God preserves and transmits truth within those respective churches…I would give God all of the credit…
 
ConstantineTG said:
In the Orthodox Church, only God is infallible.
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All humans are fallible, as well as sinners, just as the apostles were…:thumbsup:However, the fallible writers of the bible somehow managed to write infallibly…👍
 
joe370 said:
Chimo seems to disagree with you, I think…I’ll let him comment. So, the autocephalous, eastern orthodox churches** do not claim** to teach infallibly regarding their established doctrines? If they did make that claim it would be because God preserves and transmits truth within those respective churches…I would give God all of the credit…
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No. No one needs to teach infallibly. Why do you need that? Tell me. Do you believe that Christ gave all revelation to His disciples? If the truth is already been with the disciples and has been passed down to us as Tradition, as St. Paul said in his epistle, what is the use of infallibility? Can we not just test a teaching against tradition?
joe370 said:
All humans are fallible, as well as sinners, just as the apostles were…:thumbsup:However, the fallible writers of the bible somehow managed to write infallibly…👍
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Remember how the Bible itself was put together. It didn’t just appear out of nowhere and then BOOM, here’s your authoritative book. Each Gospel and Epistle was tested against Tradition.
 
joe370 said:
I was hoping to leave critiques directed at the CC out of the discussion, if possible. 👍 So the autocephalous, eastern orthodox churches do in fact claim to teach infallibly regarding their established doctrines? Where can I find that official position, in writing?🙂
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I am an Orthodox who grew up more “catholic” in the first half of my life. I find the Catholic Church better able to convene councils than the Orthodox would. I would simply believe it is because Rome is only one Church in the West so it can do this quite simply on its own. However the situation changes in the East. When I found out these Orthodox Churches are all self governing it gave me understanding why these Churches do not act out the same as Rome. There are too many Churches to enact an council because the Orthodox must have all of them in agreement in the first place to have such a council. The only real authority by which I believe the Orthodox Churches belong to are those seven general Ecumenical councils and other councils around those times which they hold dear to as much as a Catholic holds dear to those Papal announcements. I can’t really say if the Orthodox have made statements similar to Rome. I really do not think they have. The East governs herself under a different principal. On the surface it may look different but under the same mat the Orthodox do look to those earlier counsels as binding on all the Eastern Churches. I would study the Ecumenical Counsel decisions of the past especially the 7 known Ecumenical ones including the Council of Chalcedon in the 5th century as close to what infallibility means to the Orthodox. You cannot know the Orthodox understanding on infallibility by looking somewhere else.
 
chimo said:
I am an Orthodox who grew up more “catholic” in the first half of my life. I find the Catholic Church better able to convene councils than the Orthodox would. I would simply believe it is because Rome is only one Church in the West so it can do this quite simply on its own. However the situation changes in the East. When I found out these Orthodox Churches are all self governing it gave me understanding why these Churches do not act out the same as Rome. There are too many Churches to enact an council because the Orthodox must have all of them in agreement in the first place to have such a council. The only real authority by which I believe the Orthodox Churches belong to are those seven general Ecumenical councils and other councils around those times which they hold dear to as much as a Catholic holds dear to those Papal announcements. I can’t really say if the Orthodox have made statements similar to Rome. I really do not think they have. The East governs herself under a different principal. On the surface it may look different but under the mat the Orthodox do look to those earlier counsels as binding on all the Eastern Churches. I would study the Ecumenical Counsel decisions of the past especially the 7 known Ecumenical ones including the Council of Chalcedon in the 5th century as close to what infallibility means to the Orthodox. You cannot know the Orthodox understanding on infallibility by looking somewhere else.
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Some Orthodox theologians believe that the age of Ecumenical Councils is over. It was possible before because the Emperor convenes it and he makes sure that bishops come. And even then, not all bishops come anyway. In the 5th Ecumenical Council, the Pope of Rome was exiled in Constantinople, but he refused to attend the council which was in the same city where he was living in. The Emperor threw him into prison where he suddenly said his advisers gave him bad information about the council which is why he refused to come.
 
ConstantineTG;10728002]No. No one needs to teach infallibly. Why do you need that? Tell me.
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Sure. My sister tells me that you and I are wrong about the Eucharist. She then proceeds to tell me that the bible is infallible but there is no way for us to know the truth about the Eucharist because no humans, regardless of church affiliation, are guided by God to discern truth. Is she right? If she is wrong, then how can I convince her that that particular truth about the Eucharist has been preserved? I really am asking for help on this particular matter???
 
chimo said:
I am an Orthodox who grew up more “catholic” in the first half of my life. I find the Catholic Church better able to convene councils than the Orthodox would. I would simply believe it is because Rome is only one Church in the West so it can do this quite simply on its own. However the situation changes in the East. When I found out these Orthodox Churches are all self governing it gave me understanding why these Churches do not act out the same as Rome. There are too many Churches to enact an council because the Orthodox must have all of them in agreement in the first place to have such a council. The only real authority by which I believe the Orthodox Churches belong to are those seven general Ecumenical councils and other councils around those times which they hold dear to as much as a Catholic holds dear to those Papal announcements. I can’t really say if the Orthodox have made statements similar to Rome. I really do not think they have. The East governs herself under a different principal. On the surface it may look different but under the same mat the Orthodox do look to those earlier counsels as binding on all the Eastern Churches. I would study the Ecumenical Counsel decisions of the past especially the 7 known Ecumenical ones including the Council of Chalcedon in the 5th century as close to what infallibility means to the Orthodox. You cannot know the Orthodox understanding on infallibility by looking somewhere else.
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Thanks chimo for the feedback…👍🙂
 
ConstantineTG said:
Some Orthodox theologians believe that the age of Ecumenical Councils is over. It was possible before because the Emperor convenes it and he makes sure that bishops come. And even then, not all bishops come anyway. In the 5th Ecumenical Council, the Pope of Rome was exiled in Constantinople, but he refused to attend the council which was in the same city where he was living in. The Emperor threw him into prison where he suddenly said his advisers gave him bad information about the council which is why he refused to come.
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That was not very nice of the emperor…:eek:
 
ConstantineTG said:
In the Orthodox Church, only God is infallible.
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It is my understanding that is true in the Catholic Church today, since it is the Holy Spirit working through the Bishop of Rome that prevents him from teaching error and allows him to declare a definitive teaching based on the original deposit of faith, when a controversy might arise.
 
ConstantineTG said:
Some Orthodox theologians believe that the age of Ecumenical Councils is over. It was possible before because the Emperor convenes it and he makes sure that bishops come. And even then, not all bishops come anyway. In the 5th Ecumenical Council, the Pope of Rome was exiled in Constantinople, but he refused to attend the council which was in the same city where he was living in. The Emperor threw him into prison where he suddenly said his advisers gave him bad information about the council which is why he refused to come.
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Interesting development! Did the Pope ever get back to his home? It is interesting what you said about the age of the Ecumenical Councils are over by some Orthodox theologians. I was not aware that during those times of Ecumenical meetings that the emperor was the one who called in such councils. This type of calling must have been very important to both Church and state. It is good to see the state in seeing the importance of such matters. I wonder if our states today could learn this to their benefit and see how important the Church was and still is.

How this was done in the past (convening important councils)can the Churches today convene such a council on their own? Will for instance the Pope, to bring more understanding on all fronts, ask the Orthodox leaders to convene someday an eighth general assembly so that all issues that are so dear to each Church be discussed. The Pope of that council may even give this council its full weight in determining the future of the Church and may regards its decisions as binding to all. Could a council of this type happen in our day?
 
joe370 said:
Sure. My sister tells me that you and I are wrong about the Eucharist. She then proceeds to tell me that the bible is infallible but there is no way for us to know the truth about the Eucharist because no humans, regardless of church affiliation, are guided by God to discern truth. Is she right? If she is wrong, then how can I convince her that that particular truth about the Eucharist has been preserved? I really am asking for help on this particular matter???
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Tradition.
 
Jon_S said:
It is my understanding that is true in the Catholic Church today, since it is the Holy Spirit working through the Bishop of Rome that prevents him from teaching error and allows him to declare a definitive teaching based on the original deposit of faith, when a controversy might arise.
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I was hoping we could leave the Catholic Church out of the discussion, if possible…As a convert to Catholicism, (and loving it) I thought it would be nice to learn a little about Eastern Orthodoxy, regarding the preservation of doctrinal truth, and the way in which they would handle doctrinal differences today if they were to surface within Orthodoxy. Thus far, it looks as if they (who ever they might be) would defer to the first 7 ecumenical councils and tradition…Thanks brother…🙂
 
joe370 said:
That was not very nice of the emperor…:eek:
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Why? There was an important council, he’s already in the city, the Pope really had no excuse.

Oh, and Emperors do tend to persecute Christians, even the Christian Emperors. It wasn’t all roses and rainbows during the 1100-year Christian Byzantine Empire.
 
ConstantineTG said:
Why? There was an important council, he’s already in the city, the Pope really had no excuse.

Oh, and Emperors do tend to persecute Christians, even the Christian Emperors. It wasn’t all roses and rainbows during the 1100-year Christian Byzantine Empire.
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I was just joking around…😃
 
Jon_S said:
It is my understanding that is true in the Catholic Church today, since it is the Holy Spirit working through the Bishop of Rome that prevents him from teaching error and allows him to declare a definitive teaching based on the original deposit of faith, when a controversy might arise.
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That is the thing on my other post, if Christ already gave all revelation He intended to give to the disciples, why the need of someone being infallible?
 
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