Eastern Rite and Orthodox Unity

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

Hello brother David, Your issue seems to be that I have left the Latin Catholic/Eastern Catholic church, not with what I have actually said.

Its more that you seem to try to speak as an expert on the Catholic Church that bothers me at times.

This is just bilge water.

If I said “the sky is blue” would you respond with “your testimony is just that, yours, it does not necessarily refelect everyones”.

But, as I stated, your experience does not match what I have experienced, so you expect others to ignore my experience while listening to yours.

If you disagree with something I have said, just come out and say "I disagree with … ". Don’t impugn my motives. It is like back-biting.

I would agree that in the ‘home territories’ the Melkites are the closest to their Orthodox forebears.

I said "The rub is that most EC were not actually able to keep their traditional Liturgy and practices substantially intact. " Do you disagree?

http://www.melkite.org/LATIN-IN.jpg

May God bless you in your vocation.

How old is that picture? Things have changed, do you deny this?

 

[Hesychios]

How old is that picture? Things have changed, do you deny this?

Now I think that I see the problem here.

In my statement, I was trying to point out (correctly, I think) that the eastern Catholic traditions were not consistently kept, that they were interrupted. That is the sense in which I posted that they were not " … were not actually able to keep their traditional Liturgy and practices substantially intact. "

I meant continually. I also know of Byzantine Catholics (generally older folk) who to this day deny that their church was ever ‘Orthodox’, and resist the restorations. I have met them and talked to them.

I agree it is an old picture, it merely serves as evidence that the Eastern Catholic churches were not able to preserve their traditions inviolate in the face of opposition from within the big sister church.

 

[prodromos]

But, as I stated, your experience does not match what I have experienced, so you expect others to ignore my experience while listening to yours?

Please post where in this thread such a suggestion was made.

John

 

[dvdjs]

I have issues with Orthodox individuals speaking out as experts on the inner workings of the Catholic Church and its practices, especially when those individual have chosen to leave the Catholic Church for the Orthodox Church.

Just to be clear, I meant my comment as a sincere compliment. I thought you made the point, without belaboring it, and were admirably irenic in response to a drive-by post.

 

[Hesychios]

Just to be clear, I meant my comment as a sincere compliment. I thought you made the point, without belaboring it, and were admirably irenic in response to a drive-by post.

I beg your pardon, but the post in question was my fourth.

When people ask for comments or opinions, I may elect to give it. When people want facts I do make some serious effort to be factual. I always make some attempt to be substantive in my contributions to a thread.

I agree that the response was irenic.

I hate to admit it but I am a slow reader and a slow typist, most of my efforts take me a substantial amount of time to compose. Whether or not you agree with me, *or my background, *I don’t (as a rule) do drive-by posts. I simply take this too seriously.

I will admit that I am not the most knowledgeable person at CAF, far from it, and I apologize for offending the sensibilities of people like you, it is not deliberate. But please do not belittle my efforts.

 

[dvdjs]

I will admit that I am not the most knowledgeable person at CAF, far from it, and I apologize for offending the sensibilities of people like you, it is not deliberate. But please do not belittle my efforts.

Since you make a request of me, I hope you don’t mind if I respond in kind with a simple request. Please refrain from posts that are critical of ECC’s, especially if the accuracy and/or scope of your knowledge is not the best.

The information contained in your first post on the thread cast the BCC and UGCC in a negative light with no context (or scope) - and the remark was completely irrelevant to the topic. Sorry, I don’t get it.

Your post #43 again put EC churches in a negative light, and IMO was little more than a swipe. You developed no criteria for examining “tradition in liturgy and practices” and no norms for gauging “substantially intact”. I don’t think an opinion was asked for, but that is what was given.

Interestingly, that same, old picture, and the discussion of Latinizations that accompanies it, was raised on another forum in the past few days. One orthodox deacon was quick to point out that much of what was discussed was also part of the American experience of Orthodoxy, and that some practices, such as the use of musical instruments, were (and are) even more prevalent within Orthodoxy.

So, have the Orthodox in America “kept” their “traditional liturgy and practices”? Some serious reflection on that question would probably help you temper your remarks and give you a better perspective on what to make of the glib comments you hear about Orthodox being not “impressed” with us, or how it “can happen again”.

And to address your final question in your post #54: People rarely challenge a compliment. But if you choose to make denigrating remarks, then be prepared to be asked, perhaps in some round about manner, to justify them.

 

[Mickey]

I beg your pardon, but the post in question was my fourth.

When people ask for comments or opinions, I may elect to give it. When people want facts I do make some serious effort to be factual. I always make some attempt to be substantive in my contributions to a thread.

I agree that the response was irenic.

I hate to admit it but I am a slow reader and a slow typist, most of my efforts take me a substantial amount of time to compose. Whether or not you agree with me, *or my background, *I don’t (as a rule) do drive-by posts. I simply take this too seriously.

I will admit that I am not the most knowledgeable person at CAF, far from it, and I apologize for offending the sensibilities of people like you, it is not deliberate. But please do not belittle my efforts.

Hi Michael,

I find that your posts are always informative and charitable. Your presence on this forum is beneficial. Sadly, someone will always be offended no matter what is written. I have learned much over the years from your posts. Thank you.

 

[brigantine]

Hi Michael,

I find that your posts are always informative and charitable. Your presence on this forum is beneficial. Sadly, someone will always be offended no matter what is written. I have learned much over the years from your posts. Thank you.

I agree with this. Both yours and Mickey’s posts have helped me with recent struggles!