Eastern Rite Questions

[morpheus02g]

Hi, I’m a Latin Rite Catholic with some questions on the Eastern Rite…

Do women typically where something covering their hair at Divine Liturgy?

In an Eastern Rite marriage, the couple wear crowns? What does that symbolize?

Do Eastern Catholics pray the liturgy of the hours as we do in the Latin Rite?

Do they pray the Divine Mercy? The Rosary?

Do they have Adoration?

 

[Aramis]

Hi, I’m a Latin Rite Catholic with some questions on the Eastern Rite…

There are 22 churches sui iuris in 5 Rites… note the plural.

Do women typically where something covering their hair at Divine Liturgy?

It varies. Ruthenians (Byzantine Rite) often don’t, but those who do wear a hat or babushka scarf.

In an Eastern Rite marriage, the couple wear crowns? What does that symbolize?

One explanation I’ve heard in the Byzantine Rite is: That they are part of the Royal Family, and rule over their own domain with God’s blessings.

Do Eastern Catholics pray the liturgy of the hours as we do in the Latin Rite?

There are offices of the hours in all 6 Catholic Rites. Each rite differs significantly in the exact contents. Each church sui iuris may vary slightly from other churches sui iuris of the same rite.

Do they pray the Divine Mercy? The Rosary?

I know some who do, many who don’t. I’ve been slacking off, by normally, I use the chotki, rather than the Dominican (aka Marian) Rosary. I do, however, join in the Dominican Rosary during KofC functions.

Do they have Adoration?

As a generality, no.
The Ukrainians and Ruthenians (both Byzantine Rite, Slavonic Tradition) used to have adopted it, but most Ukrainian and Ruthenian parishes no longer use it.

 

[Cluny]

As Aramis has pointed out, there’s no such thing as “the Eastern rite”.

And as I’ve said before, don’t go to any Eastern Catholic church thinking you’ll find the last bastion of pre-V2 1950’s American-style Latin Catholicism. You’ll be terribly disappointed and even angry if you do.

Understand that they all have different traditions–even differing among each other–and spiritual patrimonies from the Western church.

Take them on their own terms, and you will find them a blessing beyond your dreams.

 

[morpheus02g]

Would it be correct to use the term “Eastern Catholics” when referring to the 22 churches?

 

[dancingcrane]

Yes.

I’m glad you’re interested! The Roman Catholic Church makes up about 95% of the whole group of Churches that make up the Catholic Church, so it’s very common for members to not be aware that any other Churches exist.

As Cluny said, though “Take them on their own terms, and you will find them a blessing beyond your dreams.” I did, and though Roman myself, I consider my local Ukrainian Catholic church (Byzantine rite) my spiritual home, and dearly love the local Maronite Catholic church (Antiochene rite) where I go for daily Liturgy.

 

[gloria97000]

The explanation I’ve heard for the crowns from Maronites is that the husband and wife are crowned king and queen of their kingdom. This was mentioned in the context of the line “As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.”…powerful…

We do have adoration, with a different benediction but the same overall format as you see in the Latin Church.

Pretty much no one covered their heads at the Liturgies I’ve attended; however, no one would probably care if you did, if you wanted to.

 

[wynd]

The explanation I’ve heard for the crowns from Maronites is that the husband and wife are crowned king and queen of their kingdom. This was mentioned in the context of the line “As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.”…powerful…

The crowns also symbolize martyrdom, since any true marriage involves dying to oneself and one’s will and the giving of one’s life totally to the other.

 

[gloria97000]

The reference to martyrdom and the notion of dying to self in marriage is beautiful and powerful,too. I can see how well it would fit into the spirituality of the Maronites…but I don’t understand what this has to do with crowns. Can you explain? (Just found the Maronites a few years ago…love to learn more at any opportunity!)

 

[wynd]

The reference to martyrdom and the notion of dying to self in marriage is beautiful and powerful,too. I can see how well it would fit into the spirituality of the Maronites…but I don’t understand what this has to do with crowns. Can you explain? (Just found the Maronites a few years ago…love to learn more at any opportunity!)

Not sure about the Maronites, but in the Byzantine rite it is common to sing of the martyrs as having received the “crown of martyrdom.” A common troparion is this:

Your holy martyrs, O Lord,
through their suffering have received incorruptible crowns from You, our God.
For having Your strength, they laid low their adversaries,
and shattered the powerless boldness of demons.
Through their intercessions save our souls!

 

[Cluny]

Apparently, crowns or wreaths at marriage is an old practice–older than the ring, in fact.

Song of Solomon 3:11​

Go forth, O daughters of Zion, And see King Solomon with the crown With which his mother crowned him On the day of his wedding, The day of the gladness of his heart.

They are also anticipation of the crown to be granted in the Kingdom of Heaven.

 

[gloria97000]

Neat.

 

[Rob_in_Oregon]

Another question:

This has probably been covered before, but I haven’t seen it.

Do the Eastern Catholic Churches believe in the filioque, the Holy Spirit proceeding from the Father AND the Son? Or, like the Orthodox, do they believe that the Spirit proceeds only from the Father?

Do different ECCs hold different positions on this issue?

If they hold the Orthodox position, what does that say about the oneness of the Catholic Church? Isn’t this a serious theological matter?

Do they look to the Holy Father in Rome for the last word on doctrinal matters, or not?

I’m genuinely curious. Thanks for your help… - Rob in Oregon

 

[SyroMalankara]

Depends on the meaning of the word ''proceed".

The Eastern Churches traditionally do not use the filioque, some latinized and adopted it, but the Traditional teaching is that the Spirit exists in a singular spiration imminently within the Holy Trinity from the Father alone, but proceeds through the Son per the economic Trinity as the Father and the Son are One. Eastern Catholics accept this teaching and prefer it, they generally do not view the Latin expression of the procession of the Holy Spirit as heretical (although many believe that the phrase has often been used incorrectly and could lead to error if misunderstood).

The Eastern Orthodox generally believe the Latins (although some don’t) are in error in using the filioque. Within those who do not believe it is error, some still disagree with its use since it was not added by an Ecumenical Council but by the Pope.

The Latin Church believes it is in full conformity with the Eastern Catholics and Orthodox and that the addition of “filioque” is simply a clarification to dispel the Arian heresy. They do not believe this “clarification” added anything to the Creed and therefore have no issue with praying the Creed with or without it, although when praying in Latin, they use the Latin edition with filioque included - since the Latin text is standard for the Latin Rite, the filioque is the norm within the Latin Church.

 

[Rob_in_Oregon]

Syro: Thanks for the reply.

Do Latins and Easterns agree on this first part:? The Father’s knowledge of Himself eternally generates the Person of the Son.

Yet I think the Latin Church believes that the LOVE between the Father and Son is the “spiration” that eternally produces the Spirit. I don’t understand how a spiration can come from only one Person, albeit through the Son, as spiration means back-and-forth, yet proceeding in a direction.

I’m wondering if a good analogy is a football thrown by a quarterback. In this case the quarterback would throw the ball with two hands, one for the Father and one for the Son.

This stuff is fascinating. I’m learning a lot.

Keep the faith, Latin or Eastern! - Rob in Oregon

 

[SyroMalankara]

Do Latins and Easterns agree on this first part:?

Easterners are not one monolith block, there are Alexandrian, Antiochian, Chaldean, Malabarese, Armenian, Byzantine theologies - and subdivisions within each in the East (just as there different and valid theologies in the West).

The Father’s knowledge of Himself eternally generates the Person of the Son. Yet I think the Latin Church believes that the LOVE between the Father and Son is the “spiration” that eternally produces the Spirit. I don’t understand how a spiration can come from only one Person, albeit through the Son, as spiration means back-and-forth, yet proceeding in a direction.

That isn’t dogma - that is just a way of describing the Trinity, one can reject it for its shortcomings or use a different one altogether. Personally, I think it falls short and should be disregarded for a better explanation.

I’m wondering if a good analogy is a football thrown by a quarterback. In this case the quarterback would throw the ball with two hands, one for the Father and one for the Son.

Which means the Holy Spirit becomes de-Personalized and is seen as an object - one of the reasons that the Greeks disagree with that expression.

The problem with this often used, woefully inadequate description is that it leaves many more questions that it answers… What of the Love between the Son and the Spirit – is it a lesser “expression”? What of the Love between Father and Spirit? Is the Holy Spirit now a FORCE and NOT a Person??

According to our Faith - Eastern Catholic, Latin, Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox, Church of the East, even protestants – the Holy Spirit is a Person.

 

[Rob_in_Oregon]

I think we all agree that the Spirit is a Person.

If all of God’s attributes are perfect, then the love between Father and Son shares the same infinite perfection. If that love is of God, it cannot be, “lesser.” And, in the Latin explanation, the Spirit therefore cannot be a lesser, or less of a Person than the Father and Son.

While it is the nature of analogy to fall short, I haven’t heard any other explanation that makes more sense. I think Augustine and Aquinas were onto something.

While the football analogy was flawed, I read one ECC’s post about the Trinity being like a horseshoe, with the Father being in the middle, and the ends being the Son and Spirit. This seems a bit peculiar, and doesn’t explain what should be the perfect dynamic of the three persons.

So, you say that the Latin trinitarian theology is not something that is taught by the ordinary magisterium, so we don’t have to believe it. (I get confused about what we MUST believe and what we MAY believe. How do we know which is which?)

I guess this is an area where we can agree to disagree, and remain in communion.

Thanks so much for your replies. I love this stuff! - Rob in Oregon

 

[Wildkit]

There are 22 churches sui iuris in 5 Rites… note the plural.

It varies. Ruthenians (Byzantine Rite) often don’t, but those who do wear a hat or babushka scarf.

.

Aramis, I have not heard the term babushka scarf for a very long time. My grandmother would always wear her babushka to Church as well as my Mom. She was from Poland. Hearing that term again makes me think our world is indeed smaller than we think!