Eastern Rite Theology vs Dogma

[Joab_Anias]

I don’t know if you’ve noticed, but most Eastern Catholics left this board saying they didn’t want to defend their faith against Roman Catholics.

No I didn’t notice that. I do recall hearing that the CCC was theirs too and that they accepted all Dogma. But I must admit I haven’t followed it intently and didn’t begin to take note until I noticed misconceptions on what Latins believe purported by orthodox.

Several Eastern Catholics participated in this thread and were dismissed.

Dismissed, how so?

They were told they either believed like this or they weren’t Catholic and what they had to say carried no weight.

Can you direct me to the posts that said Catholics weren’t Catholics?

I am appreciative for the explanations of those like Hesychios and I pray this board will have the eastern representation you are also looking for.

Yes of course.

Peace.

 

[Aramis]

Actually, the CCC is pure Roman.

The Ukrainians are working on their own version.

One of the others has a formal chatechism as well, but not in English.

The Ukrainian will probably get used by many Byzantine Catholic churches

 

[Joab_Anias]

Actually, the CCC is pure Roman.

The Ukrainians are working on their own version.

One of the others has a formal chatechism as well, but not in English.

The Ukrainian will probably get used by many Byzantine Catholic churches

Great. Look forward to it.

 

[Aramis]

Great. Look forward to it.

Я, тоже.
(I, also.)

 

[East_and_West]

Actually, the CCC is pure Roman.

The Ukrainians are working on their own version.

One of the others has a formal chatechism as well, but not in English.

The Ukrainian will probably get used by many Byzantine Catholic churches

Then why does it specifically state that it is intended for use by the entire Catholic Church, both East and West?

 

[Aramis]

Then why does it specifically state that it is intended for use by the entire Catholic Church, both East and West?

Last vestiges of the imposition of latinizations.

 

[Aileen74]

Actually, the CCC is pure Roman.

This is very true. My priests both say the same thing. Our pastor is Melkite Greek Catholic and our other priest received a blessing to act as a priest in the Melkite Greek Catholic Rite, but he is actually a Dominican.

The Ukrainians are working on their own version.

Do you know when it will be done?

 

[Aramis]

Aileen:
No, I don’t know. Next year or two, IIUC.

And it would make life a LOT easier if you were to copy the quote] and / quote] tags so that your comments are not within them.

As it sits, your post just claimed I said your questions…

 

[Aileen74]

Aileen:
No, I don’t know. Next year or two, IIUC.

And it would make life a LOT easier if you were to copy the quote] and / quote] tags so that your comments are not within them.

As it sits, your post just claimed I said your questions…

Sorry! New to this.

 

[Ignatius]

Haha, I noticed that as well. We are particular churches of the east. We are not simply rites.

Amen!!!

 

[Joab_Anias]

Then why does it specifically state that it is intended for use by the entire Catholic Church, both East and West?

Not sure that he meant it was only for Romans but after all it is from Rome. I hope this doesn’t make anyone think they shouldn’t use it because its for everyone.

I guess if you are from the East and have any aspersions toward Rome then you might be inclined to reject it but if you agree Rome is Catholic and your Catholic then I can’t see any conflict.

I think its good that there will be other books that address their unique customs and cultures. I look forward to reading that expression of the same faith. I don’t think this means anything will be contrary to the CCC but maybe more particular to those needs.

Peace.

 

[East_and_West]

Last vestiges of the imposition of latinizations.

Goodness gracious. How can we possibly claim that we are the ONE body of Christ, if we profess two different faiths?

 

[Aramis]

Goodness gracious. How can we possibly claim that we are the ONE body of Christ, if we profess two different faiths?

2? try at least 7; quite probably 23 different ones. Each Sui Iuris Church, in fact, is permitted its own theology and doctrine, provided that it includes the Dogmas.

Dogmas are UNIVERSAL.

Doctrines tend to be based in and shared throughout the Rite, but may vary by church. Most of them in fact are shared across all 23 SI Churches.
Some are not.
A few are even nigh universal.

Teachings includes all the Dogma and Doctrine, and all other which “should be taught”, and varies even within the Rite; in the west, the teachings differ slightly from diocese to diocese even. Not all the teachings are infallible, nor even required to be adhered to.

Theology is the process by which God is examined through examining the scriptures, the writings of the prior theologians, the chruch fathers, the traditions of the church and the actions of the councils. It falls into several schools each in many of the SI Churches…

But it is adherence to Dogma which makes one a Catholic. It is accepting and teaching the Dogmas as ones’s own doctrines that makes a Catholic different from a non-catholic. Especially since the Papacy is one of them.

 

[Joab_Anias]

Last vestiges of the imposition of latinizations.

There is no imposition contained in the CCC.

It was put out as a guide for the faithful.

As one Catholic Church and with Rome as primary see all that comes out of it shouldn’t be viewed as “Latinizations”. All languages are encompassed.

It is however understandable that there may be cultural reconciliation that the CCC does not address adequately as such a volume would be much more immense.

Augmentation by subsequent volumes for such customs would serve the cause of unity well imho.

As the CCC gives the mind of Rome and the voice of the primary see and epicenter of Christianity it would be nice as well to have the mind and voice of Catholics of different rites in print as well; especially for ecumenical referencing purposes.

Peace.

 

[tdgesq]

I agree with Aramis. If having different beliefs means that we have a different faith, then I suppose you could say various groups of Roman Catholics within the RCC also have different faiths.

 

[Joab_Anias]

I agree with Aramis. If having different beliefs means that we have a different faith, then I suppose you could say various groups of Roman Catholics within the RCC also have different faiths.

Exactly,

Irish, Polish, French, Hispanic - all the same faith yet different cultures and customs. Same faith though. No different with Ukrainian, Chaldean, Ethiopian, etc etc etc, same faith just different cultures and customs.

 

[East_and_West]

2? try at least 7; quite probably 23 different ones. Each Sui Iuris Church, in fact, is permitted its own theology and doctrine, provided that it includes the Dogmas.

Dogmas are UNIVERSAL.

Doctrines tend to be based in and shared throughout the Rite, but may vary by church. Most of them in fact are shared across all 23 SI Churches.
Some are not.
A few are even nigh universal.

Teachings includes all the Dogma and Doctrine, and all other which “should be taught”, and varies even within the Rite; in the west, the teachings differ slightly from diocese to diocese even. Not all the teachings are infallible, nor even required to be adhered to.

Theology is the process by which God is examined through examining the scriptures, the writings of the prior theologians, the chruch fathers, the traditions of the church and the actions of the councils. It falls into several schools each in many of the SI Churches…

But it is adherence to Dogma which makes one a Catholic. It is accepting and teaching the Dogmas as ones’s own doctrines that makes a Catholic different from a non-catholic. Especially since the Papacy is one of them.

This view is a complete assault on the unity of the Body of Christ. Remember there is “One Lord, ONE FAITH, one Baptism, one God and Father over all who is in all.”

 

[tdgesq]

This view is a complete assault on the unity of the Body of Christ. Remember there is “One Lord, ONE FAITH, one Baptism, one God and Father over all who is in all.”

No it isn’t, not the way Aramis means it. I’m nominally a Molinist in my beliefs about grace, predestination and free will. Others are Thomists, and would adamantly disagree with my view. I have a different belief than they do. We are all Roman Catholics. I’m not required to believe everything about our faith the same way other Roman Catholics might.

 

[East_and_West]

No it isn’t, not the way Aramis means it. I’m nominally a Molinist in my beliefs about grace, predestination and free will. Others are Thomists, and would adamantly disagree with my view. I have a different belief than they do. We are all Roman Catholics. I’m not required to believe everything about our faith the same way other Roman Catholics might.

We need to be continually working towards an agreement. And when the Church says “you must believe this under pain of anathema” you have two options. Accept it as truth or believe the Church is heretical.

 

[ronyodish]

Joab,

The differences with the Easterners/Orientals are not just with cultures and customs. There are also theological differences, though these differences are complementary with Latin theology, as well as, complementary amongst each others’ theologies.

The Irish, Polish, French, and Hispanics are all members of the Latin Church and therefore share basic Latin theological expressions. Ukrainians, Chaldeans, and Ethiopians have theological expressions not only distinct from but complementary with Latin theology, but are also distinct amongst each other, since each of them arose out of a distinct tradition (Ukrainians use the Constantinopolitan tradition, Ethiopians use the Alexandrian tradition, Chaldeans use the Chaldean tradition).

Check here for the definition of a rite

Now, I agree that there is only one Deposit of Faith received from the Apostles, namely Holy Tradition and Holy Scripture, but this deposit was planted among different peoples such that symbols, terms, formulas, and expressions were used to convey and live out this Deposit of Faith. Out of this planting of the Deposit of Faith arose these theological, liturgical, spiritual, and disciplinary expressions that we see today in the Catholic Church. The Deposit of Faith remains basically the same through out the Catholic Communion, yet the expressions of it are distinct amongst the various Catholic traditions.

God bless,

Rony