Eastern Saints and Eucharistic Adoration

[smad0142]

I seem to remember seeing a list on here once with a bunch of quotes from Eastern Saints speaking favorably of Adoration. Can somebody dig up this thread for me, or simply provide any that you know? Thanks!!

 

[chaldobyzantine]

I seem to remember seeing a list on here once with a bunch of quotes from Eastern Saints speaking favorably of Adoration. Can somebody dig up this thread for me, or simply provide any that you know? Thanks!!

We adore Christ perfectly during the Divine Liturgy or Holy Qurbono. Eucharistic Adoration separate from the Liturgy is a Latin practice and is not considered as part of Byzantine/Oriental praxis. It has too long been a Latinization in Eastern churches, and has been somewhat removed and replaced by Byzantine services such as Akathists.

However, nobody here would oppose you adoring the Eucharist in a Roman Catholic chapel or church, if you so desire. It is a perfectly valid and beneficial form of Western prayer.

~God Bless

 

[smad0142]

I am not trying to promote or denigrate the practice or anything else like that. Simply trying to find a resource.

 

[Zak1031]

I attend a Maronite Church and, particularly during Lent, after Friday noon Liturgy, there is always Eucharistic Adoration. It is a separate service in which Priest and members of the Church participate. In fact, while the service is going on, it is requested that nobody enter and/or leave the chapel. I know St. Charbel spent hours daily in Eucharistic Adoration. I will see if I can locate you some of his direct quotes.

 

[smad0142]

Thank you Zak. My brother loves the Maronite Liturgy much more than the Byzantine Liturgy. He attended one of their Adoration services once and was deeply moved.

 

[Trebor135]

I attend a Maronite Church and, particularly during Lent, after Friday noon Liturgy, there is always Eucharistic Adoration. It is a separate service in which Priest and members of the Church participate. In fact, while the service is going on, it is requested that nobody enter and/or leave the chapel. I know St. Charbel spent hours daily in Eucharistic Adoration. I will see if I can locate you some of his direct quotes.

The impression I have, though, is that the Maronites have succumbed to severe latinization. St. Charbil lived during the nineteenth century, and I would posit that the OP was looking for Eastern support for Eucharistic adoration from some time prior.

(I have nothing against Eucharistic adoration, but simply wish to see Eastern Catholics stay true to their glorious heritage.)

 

[ByzCathCantor]

Likewise, I have no objection to Eucharistic Adoration, and definitely see its place in Latin praxis. I have often attended with members of my extended family who are practicing, faithful Roman Catholics in their churches.

It is fabled that a form of Eucharistic Adoration can be traced back to St. Basil the Great (this is also suggested in a oft-cited Wikipedia article). It is said that St. Basil would reserve and set aside parts of the Prosphora for himself, the monks and a third part would be placed in a golden vessel shaped as a dove and suspended over the altar. However, it is likely this was done for practical reasons (e.g. later distribution to the infirmed) and not for adoration, as no such practice really exists in the Eastern Christian traditions (Catholic and Orthodox, although Benediction was part of Eastern Catholic practice for some time, as an adopted practice from the Latin tradition).

Many parishes to this day (my own included) have such a vessel in their churches, which serves the same general purpose as the tabernacle of Latin tradition.

 

[smad0142]

The impression I have, though, is that the Maronites have succumbed to severe latinization. St. Charbil lived during the nineteenth century, and** I would posit that the OP was looking for Eastern support for Eucharistic adoration from some time prior.**

(I have nothing against Eucharistic adoration, but simply wish to see Eastern Catholics stay true to their glorious heritage.)

Actually anytime period is fine. Prior would be great but any Saints, Martyrs, Bishops, etc. would be great. Catholic or Orthodox. I am simply trying to re-compile a list I saw on here earlier but can no longer find at all.

 

[Zak1031]

My Msgr. would be amused about the Maronites succumbing to Latinization. He prides himself as being uniquely Maronite. I think it is now time for me to bow out of this website. Blessings to you all.

 

[dvdjs]

The impression I have, though, is that the Maronites have succumbed to severe latinization. St. Charbil lived during the nineteenth century, and I would posit that the OP was looking for Eastern support for Eucharistic adoration from some time prior.

(I have nothing against Eucharistic adoration, but simply wish to see Eastern Catholics stay true to their glorious heritage.)

But of course. What could a Saint of the nineteenth century offer to us, as compared to Saint of an earlier time? What would the recently glorified know of the glorious heritage of his church.

On his death bed, when because of injuries he could not receive the Eucharist, Blessed Theodore Romzha asked that reserved gifts be brought to him so that he could adore the blessed sacrament. That is our a stunning and recent part of our heritage. I’ll take the actions of Saints.

 

[smad0142]

But of course. What could a Saint of the nineteenth century offer to us, as compared to Saint of an earlier time? What would the recently glorified know of the glorious heritage of his church.

On his death bed, when because of injuries he could not receive the Eucharist, Blessed Theodore Romzha asked that reserved gifts be brought to him so that he could adore the blessed sacrament. That is our a stunning and recent part of our heritage. I’ll take the actions of Saints.

Great story! Thanks!!

 

[ByzCathCantor]

On his death bed, when because of injuries he could not receive the Eucharist, Blessed Theodore Romzha asked that reserved gifts be brought to him so that he could adore the blessed sacrament.

That’s interesting. I do nor recall that in any of the accounts of his life (or death) that I have read. Is this highlighted in any particular account that you may have read?

 

[Trebor135]

But of course. What could a Saint of the nineteenth century offer to us, as compared to Saint of an earlier time? What would the recently glorified know of the glorious heritage of his church.

I was not intending to denegrate any saint, whether from recent times or long ago; I was instead under the impression–as I mentioned previously–that “the OP was looking for Eastern support for Eucharistic adoration from some time prior”.

On his death bed, when because of injuries he could not receive the Eucharist, Blessed Theodore Romzha asked that reserved gifts be brought to him so that he could adore the blessed sacrament. That is our a stunning and recent part of our heritage. I’ll take the actions of Saints.

Thanks for this story. I will have to look into the blessed man involved.

 

[CleverUserName]

My Msgr. would be amused about the Maronites succumbing to Latinization. He prides himself as being uniquely Maronite. I think it is now time for me to bow out of this website. Blessings to you all.

I also winced at the comment you are responding to. Please don’t leave because of it. There is much to be learned and enjoyed here, despite this happening now and then.

:console:

 

[Phillip_Rolfes]

As has been said before, Eucharistic Adoration is a tradition peculiar to the Latin West. It arose in part as a response to Protestant reformers’ attempts to reduce the Eucharist to a mere symbol. It was also, in part, an expression of popular piety and an extension of the Eucharistic celebration. Since most people couldn’t hear or understand what was going on at the Mass, when the Host was elevated that became a time to adore they newly consecrated species. This sense of adoration was eventually carried over into para-liturgical activity and became what we now know as Adoration and Benediction. At least, this is according to my Dominican liturgy professor. I may be remembering some of this incorrectly as my Liturgy class was many years ago.

I don’t really know the history of Adoration among the Maronites, nor am I familiar with their particular “brand” of theology. I do know that throughout the centuries the Maronites, for better or worse, have been heavily influenced by the Roman tradition. It seems to me that any attempt to separate “Latinizations” from the “pure” Maronite tradition leads ultimately to confusion over who exactly the Maronites are. This may be in part because there is a general ignorance of the various schools of Oriental theology, and folks start to get the idea that if it isn’t Byzantine that it must either be Roman or a Latinization. But from what little I’ve gathered it seems as though in many ways proper Oriental theology often more closely reflects Latin/Roman theology than it does Byzantine. So whether or not Eucharistic Adoration can really be considered a Latinization among the Maronites is really kind of a tough question to answer.

Among the Byzantines, it is very much a Latinization. It simply doesn’t really fit into our theological framework. It’s fine as a pious devotion. And if one wants to one can go to any number of Roman parishes for Adoration if one wants. My spiritual father, the above mentioned Dominican priest/professor, said that he considers Adoration to be the “great icon of the West.” I believe that is a very beautiful and accurate way of looking at it.

In the 18th Century the Melkites introduced a rite of Benediction into their tradition. Whether this happened before or after the split in the Antiochian Patriarchate that took place in 1724 I do not know. But it should be noted that it was a rite of Benediction, not Adoration. In the form it takes in the Byzantine Daily Worship, it is a rather short service. I’d imagine it would take no more than five or ten minutes to celebrate. But I believe it is not at all used among the Melkites here in the U.S. It may still be used in the Middle East, but I don’t know for sure.

 

[dzheremi]

I don’t really know the history of Adoration among the Maronites, nor am I familiar with their particular “brand” of theology. I do know that throughout the centuries the Maronites, for better or worse, have been heavily influenced by the Roman tradition. It seems to me that any attempt to separate “Latinizations” from the “pure” Maronite tradition leads ultimately to confusion over who exactly the Maronites are.

Some say they were originally a section of the Syrian Jacobites, sharing in common with them the pearls of the West Syrian tradition (which seems weird and overly vague to me, as “Jacobite” refers to 6th century bishop Jacob Baradeus, who of course lived after Maron; and today the term is used mostly with reference to the various strains of Syriac Christianity in India). Others say they are direct descendents of the Phoenicians. I’m not quite sure how that one is supposed to work, either. It’s probably best to let them define themselves as whatever the heck they think they are, precisely because of the potential sensitivity of this issue.

This may be in part because there is a general ignorance of the various schools of Oriental theology, and folks start to get the idea that if it isn’t Byzantine that it must either be Roman or a Latinization. But from what little I’ve gathered it seems as though in many ways proper Oriental theology often more closely reflects Latin/Roman theology than it does Byzantine.

Hahaha. Ignorance of the Oriental tradition? You mean like when people say things like “it seems as though in many ways proper Oriental theology often more closely reflects Latin/Roman theology than it does Byzantine”? Where were the nearest “Latins” in the formative days with whom the Orientals could be found to be in concord? St. Arsenius and the other Romans of the Egyptian desert? Yes, I have no problem with their theology, though something tells me that’s not what most people have in mind when they think of “Roman theology”! Or do you mean like something more like the relatively Western-looking (to a Westerner) practices of the Armenians, who let’s not forget originally worshiped in Syriac before getting their own alphabet in the beginning of the 5th century from St. Mesrop? (A significant number of you probably started out that way, too, and ended up through political machinations considering yourselves proper Byzantines…the “Melkites” aren’t named that for nothing!)

Also, why can’t we just be our own thing? I attend an Oriental Church all the time now, and I don’t really see the affinity towards Latin theology that outsiders seem to see. It would seem that some would recast St. Cyril, St. Athanasius, St. Ephrem, Jacob of Serug, etc. as Latins, if they had the chance. I think this way of thinking comes precisely from the ignorance you write of, Phillip, that sees everything in relation to the two poles of Eastern and Western Christianity that think they’re the center of the universe and everything must be mapped out in relation to them (so that everything, by default, is either “A” or “B”), when the Syriac tradition is of course much older than even Byzantium itself. I don’t think Byzantines and Latins are ever really going to understand, as both have the same impulse toward uniformity that seems really weird from the perspective of Oriental history, where, for instance, the Ethiopians have this huge canon and everyone else is fine with it, the Armenians for a time anathematized St. Severus (whoops), the Indians to this day cannot decide whether they are under the Syriac Orthodox Church or independent, etc.

So whether or not Eucharistic Adoration can really be considered a Latinization among the Maronites is really kind of a tough question to answer.

I bet it’s probably less tough to answer for an educated Maronite.

Among the Byzantines, it is very much a Latinization. It simply doesn’t really fit into our theological framework. It’s fine as a pious devotion.

I am pretty sure that the priests, and all the deacons, and all the laity in the Coptic Church wouldn’t think it fine even as a pious devotion. The Eucharist is for eating. “Take, eat of this all of you…”, not “Take, look at this and pray in front of it”. But let the Latins do as they wish, so long as we’re not expected to follow suit. The Maronites, unfortunately, were not only historically expected to do so (as evidenced by the quality and assumed prerogative of various Papal legates sent to them in the late Middle Ages who burned their traditional books and enforced upon them Latin customs), but have practically done so for quite some time now.

 

[ByzCathCantor]

Ignorance of the Oriental tradition?

Dear brother, I’m sure our brother Phillip meant no offense. Regrettably, many of us (myself included) suffer from an incomplete appreciation of the Maronite tradition, and much more so its history.

Unfortunately, it is generally held (fully true or not) that Maronite tradition most resembles Latin tradition in many respects among the Oriental and Eastern Churches.

I bet it’s probably less tough to answer for an educated Maronite.

Indeed, and hopefully we have a few here who can help us out. The only thing that seems reasonably clear for the moment is that Eucharistic Adoration is known to be practiced among the Maronites.

Even when my own Ruthenian Church succumbed to pressure in the U.S. last century to adopt Latin practices, it opted for Benediction as opposed to Adoration, likely for reasons you alude to in the following (by way of example of the Copts):

I am pretty sure that the priests, and all the deacons, and all the laity in the Coptic Church wouldn’t think it fine even as a pious devotion. The Eucharist is for eating. “Take, eat of this all of you…”, not “Take, look at this and pray in front of it”. But let the Latins do as they wish, so long as we’re not expected to follow suit.

And in fairness, even absent a detailed working knowledge of the history, fellow Eastern Catholics can certainly relate to their own histories in comparison to the following:

The Maronites, unfortunately, were not only historically expected to do so (as evidenced by the quality and assumed prerogative of various Papal legates sent to them in the late Middle Ages who burned their traditional books and enforced upon them Latin customs), but have practically done so for quite some time now.

And now, back to the OP, and I would agree along the lines of some of your reasoning (with notable saints mentioned) - whatever list of Early Fathers someone may have assembled to support an ancient tradition of Eucharistic Adoration is likely to be somewhat flawed. Even the Latin Church traces the history back to the late 11th century and gives some attribution to St. Francis of Assisi and his Franciscan order in popularizing the practice. It is assumed that it was also catechetical in nature, reinforcing the notion of the Real Presence as expounded by Pope Gregory VII (stemming from the conflict with Berengar of Tours over transubstantiation).

 

[ByzCathCantor]

a decent exposition on the subject

The History of Eucharistic Adoration (EWTN Library)

 

[dzheremi]

Dear brother, I’m sure our brother Phillip meant no offense.

Oh. I"m sorry, I didn’t think he did! I thought what he posted was funny. That’s why I laughed. It is a natural reaction to hearing that statement from far more people than Phillip, who expressed it unoffensively and with a seeming curiosity (which is far better than some of the other ways I’ve heard the same point made). I just felt the need to point out that looking from the inside out, it doesn’t really seem that way (of course, with the caveat that I am just one person…though no one at my church would claim to be closer to the Latins, either; they actually received from the local Greek Orthodox before the Bishop assigned us two priests from neighboring Arizona so that we could start holding services, 16 years or so ago). I apologize if it came across as angry. Perhaps I should have used more smilies.

And now, back to the OP, and I would agree along the lines of some of your reasoning (with notable saints mentioned) - whatever list of Early Fathers someone may have assembled to support an ancient tradition of Eucharistic Adoration is likely to be somewhat flawed. Even the Latin Church traces the history back to the late 11th century and gives some attribution to St. Francis of Assisi and his Franciscan order in popularizing the practice. It is assumed that it was also catechetical in nature, reinforcing the notion of the Real Presence as expounded by Pope Gregory VII (stemming from the conflict with Berengar of Tours over transubstantiation).

Yes, fine. All of that is okay by me. All I was trying to do in my reply was to assert the right of the Oriental Churches to actually be Oriental churches – not Latinesque by way of comparison to Byzantines, nor Byzantinzed in a doomed attempt to recover some sort of vague “Easternness”. In another thread concerning some ancient Maronite documents (I can’t remember which thread, or else I’d link it), there was some writing from a Maronite that acknowledged the sainthood of one of our particularly anti-Chalcedonian saints…I believe it was St. Severus? Anyway, this would seem to support the contention that the Maronites have, if not Oriental origins, at least (historically) Oriental sympathies. And so, to bring it back to the OP, it is not crazy to suggest that what is not proper to the Oriental worship (if Eucharistic Adoration is one of those things; I know that we don’t do it in the COC, but we’re Orthodox, so that’s neither here nor there) must’ve come in through some other means, rather than developing naturally over the centuries. I would guess that that might also be a better summation of the challenge facing the Maronites, in this as in all things: Newer and older traditions are to some extent in conflict, and so far as I’ve been able to tell (via internet broadcasts from Noursat and MTV-Lebanon; I’ve never been to a Maronite Qurbono, and now I’m afraid that is completely off the table), the newer traditions are accepted without much fuss, but with much damage being done to the traditional Syriac-rooted praxis and spirituality of the Maronites. Lord have mercy.

But that is just one outsider’s opinion, and I welcome correction from Malphono, Keefbarmaroun (where is this poster lately?! Great posts, and then nothing…), or any who are serious and well-studied in the life of this very unique Church and its traditions.

 

[ByzCathCantor]

I apologize if it came across as angry.

No need, dear brother! The desire to be both fully Eastern and fully Catholic comes with challenges and, at times, frustrations …

Perhaps I should have used more smilies.

We can always use more smiles!

All I was trying to do in my reply was to assert the right of the Oriental Churches to actually be Oriental churches

Certainly no agrument there! Let us pray they and all the Oriental and Eastern Catholic Churches have every opportunity to do so!

P.S. The angst over the married priesthood (or lack thereof) in the Ruthenian Church has been rekindled with the recent ad limina visits of the US Eastern Catholic hierarchs. All is quiet here on the subject, but raging onward on other forums.

I welcome correction from Malphono, Keefbarmaroun (where is this poster lately?! Great posts, and then nothing…), or any who are serious and well-studied in the life of this very unique Church and its traditions.

Yes, their wisdom and knowledge would be a blessing on this topic.