Eastern Vestments: Why the simplicity?

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For the life of me I have a hard time believing that Byzantine vestments developped in contradistinction.

**The Bishop’s Mantle (mantya) is a monastic mantle that the ladies of the altar guild got hold of. Bishops are chosen from among the monks.

The vestments in East and West have the same origin–but just developed differently.**
 
bpbasilphx said:
For the life of me I have a hard time believing that Byzantine vestments developped in contradistinction.

**The Bishop’s Mantle (mantya) is a monastic mantle that the ladies of the altar guild got hold of. Bishops are chosen from among the monks.

The vestments in East and West have the same origin–but just developed differently.**
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Sure, blame the women. :rotfl: LOL
 
bpbasilphx said:
For the life of me I have a hard time believing that Byzantine vestments developped in contradistinction.

**The Bishop’s Mantle (mantya) is a monastic mantle that the ladies of the altar guild got hold of. Bishops are chosen from among the monks.

The vestments in East and West have the same origin–but just developed differently.**
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This I understand - I say again, though, I have a hard time believing that they were developped in contradistinction to the West. In fact, they simply weren’t. Making Servus Pio XII’s comment odd to me.
 
Woodstock said:
Eastern clerics, Catholic and Orthodox, usually purchase their own vestments. They need two complete sets–dark and light–and should eventually have more. White, black, red, gold, and blue are common. At $1500-3000 a set times by 5 sets, you have $7500-15000 out of pocket. The headgear costs just as much and is separate. Under cassocks are also separate. That comes right after living on a pittance for 4-5 years after paying their way through seminary, easily in the $50,000 plus range.

Some priests are not able to afford even the most inexpensive printed vestments and get old hand-me-downs. Beggers can’t be choosers.
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no joke. . . esp. among the ranks of the “transitional diaconate”. they’re mostly hand-me-downs.

I’ve made both eastern and western, – western is infinitely easier, tho’ as an eastern Catholic I’ve made more Eastern. Talk about $$$$$ – $40 per yard (minimum) for fabric – need at least six yards, Trim starts at $5 per foot – need at least 15 yards, when you count in the matching veils, etc. Granted, I’ve cut corners a couple of times using a cotton/poly blend tablecloth material and found a good close-out on galoon, and gotten by a lot cheaper, but still the materials alone were more than a moderate set of Western vesments.

Young priests tend to “get by” with one set of gold for the first year, add on a purple set the second year, then move on to blue, red and green.

Cassocks are heavily embroidered – black on black. The exorassa is about the only inexpensive easy to make liturgical garment in the East.

Everything needs to be tailored to the individual – no one-size-fits-all!

Any simplicity in liturgical wear one sees in the East is very carefully constructed!
 
ASimpleSinner said:
This I understand - I say again, though, I have a hard time believing that they were developped in contradistinction to the West. In fact, they simply weren’t. Making Servus Pio XII’s comment odd to me.
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More correctly, in isolation from each other…

The syriac priestly vesture and the byzantine, while very different, show signs of common ancestry:
A sticheron, the fundamental garment of men of the middle and near east…
A stole of office, a belt to hold it in place
Cuffs to keep the sticheron sleeves out of things, especially the holy gifts.
A great cloak or great mantle (WHich the phelonian essentialy is), or a heavy over-tunic (the dalmatic and saccos).
Appropriate headgear (klobuks, mantles, or priestly hats…)
The crowns of the bishops and archpriests, showing their place as equal to the nobility.
Appropriate shoes.

And the Roman:
The cassock, a robe of the wealthy classes, but in black.
The Alb, a robe of older, roman cut, worn over in tradition to show purity.
The Amice, a hood worn under the Alb, yet over the head.
The stole of office. A cincture (belt) of rope to hold it down.
The maniple, a sweat rag, that grew all out of proportion… and then was done away with…
The overgarment, be it dalmatic, chasuble, or cope
The hat of the priest, removed for liturgy.
The bishop’s miter, a cloth crown, very different from a civil coronet, and yet, worn in the same kinds of circumstances… only later reducing in use to the liturgies. It shows the same kind of God-given authority, but for different realms and reasons.

Fundamentally, both have origins in the common clothing of the upper classes.

And, having made roman vestments (diaconal) for my dad, they are simple and straightforward, like almost all 3rd to 6th century roman garments. Also, they are often (now) of simple but rich fabrics. Dad’s rose set is of watermarked upholstery silk we found for under $10/yard… but he only gets to wear it twice a year.

Now, one can find suitable fabrics well under $40/yard… but they are still in the $20/yard+, except as endlots. And if one is lucky and/or patient, end lots of up to 5 yards often get discounted.

Google vestment fabrics
Found a nice ivory & gold for $14/yd plus shipping right off…
 
ASimpleSinner said:
This I understand - I say again, though, I have a hard time believing that they were developped in contradistinction to the West. In fact, they simply weren’t. Making Servus Pio XII’s comment odd to me.
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So many of the vestments etc… a Byzantine Rite/Eastern ORthodox bishop wears are derived from Byzantine Empire days, perhaps the mantilla shares the same tradition.
 
So many of the vestments etc… a Byzantine Rite/Eastern ORthodox bishop wears are derived from Byzantine Empire days, perhaps the mantilla shares the same tradition.
__________________

The bishop’s mantile is a monastic mantle the ladies of the altar guild got ot.
 
Khoria_Anna said:
Young priests tend to “get by” with one set of gold for the first year, add on a purple set the second year, then move on to blue, red and green.

Cassocks are heavily embroidered – black on black. The exorassa is about the only inexpensive easy to make liturgical garment in the East.
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This is why we do well as grateful parishoners to put a little aside privately as a group to Father’s birthday, name day, anniversary of ordination or Christmas… (hint, hint!)

One set a year or every other year - the cost divided between 8-12 families throwing in $10 per month… It is an exceptional way to show your love and gratitude.

And for what it is worth, I have seen some really elegant linen vestments and some cotton-poly blends that were so well embroidered that no one would notice they were not exacly made of gold…
 
PS - you didn’t hear this from me… but a more talented and creative seamstress or tailor can do wonders with a Roman Cope from eBay…

…or so I have heard.
 
PS - you didn’t hear this from me… but a more talented and creative seamstress or tailor can do wonders with a Roman Cope from eBay…

…or so I have heard.
 
ASimpleSinner said:
PS - you didn’t hear this from me… but a more talented and creative seamstress or tailor can do wonders with a Roman Cope from eBay…

…or so I have heard.
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They would easily be converted to the Syriac style of priestly vestment (don’t know the name; equivalent to the phelonian), and with new trim, or matching trim, it’s possible to make a phelonian out of the fuller copes.

The smaller ones from the early/mid 20th C? Veils for the chalice and patton…
 
ASimpleSinner said:
PS - you didn’t hear this from me… but a more talented and creative seamstress or tailor can do wonders with a Roman Cope from eBay…

…or so I have heard.
Click to expand...
(in a stage whisper)…this is true, as I am one of those tailors.
 
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