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Peter_J
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That’s what I thought it was, given the “Catholic Answers” (with capitals) in the title.
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Trebor135
Guest
Are you prepared to see the Latin Catholic Church declare the dogmas of papal universal jurisdiction and doctrinal infallibility to be theologoumena not binding upon the consciences of the faithful?
Edit: As well as the filioque.
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Trebor135
Guest
OK, my apologies again. I’m glad my error was pointed out so quickly.
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Peter_J
Guest
Well, I definitely wouldn’t want to be drinking anything at the time, especially if sitting in front of a computer.
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Ubenedictus
Guest
i doubt if rome will say anything, she will hold off making that statement. UCC deserves that status as much as the RCC needs the ecumenism. It is an unpleasant situation, for every one except the other orthodox guys.
Ubenedictus
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Peter_J
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No need to apologize. Wasn’t really a big deal … and anyhow you were just giving the title that the author used.
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Nicea325
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Is that the solution? If it is that easy,they why hasn’t it been done? I am sure other solutions can avoid your move-sorry.
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steve_b
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Accepted :tiphat:
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Trebor135
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If Pope Benedict XVI were at this moment assumed into heaven and by some unusual turn of events I found myself taking his place, I would seriously consider making a proclamation along the following lines:
Most respected fellow disciples of Christ under the guidance of the divinely esteemed Church of Rome:
Sacred Scripture and Sacred Tradition inform us of the gravely sinful and harmful nature of schism. This most humble pope of Rome are painfully aware of this fact on account of the numerous divisions among the Apostolic Churches which arose in and around the years 424, 451, and 1054. I have come to see that, in order for the two lungs of the Church–the Catholic and Eastern Orthodox Churches–to be reunited, we will have to reexamine a few points, for the Lord prayed for us to be one as he and the Father are one, and the will of God must always trump the whims of man.
By my supreme authority as the successor of St. Peter the Apostle in his most splendid chair, and the chief shepherd of the Church, and the most humble Vicar of Christ on Earth, I declare, define, say, and proclaim that the doctrines of the filioque, papal universal jurisdiction, and papal infallibility are no longer to be considered articles of Catholic faith. By the selfsame authority, I pledge that no more ex cathedra statements will proceed from the Apostolic See other than those necessary to remove all obstacles which stand solidly and unmovingly in the way of the reunion of the ancient Churches. Moreover, I bind firmly all my successors in the name of Jesus Christ to this promise which I have solemnly made.
May Our Lord Jesus Christ bless you and protect you and keep you in all ways comprehended most deeply by the omniscient mind of God, and may Our Lady the Blessed Virgin Mary pray unceasingly for your welfare and salvation now and until the hour of your departure into the next world. Amen.
Thank you.
It isn’t that easy… which is the problem. The hypothetical encyclical above is a pipe dream.
If someone has thought of a silver-bullet solution to end the Great Schism between East and West, the Latin Catholics and Eastern Orthodox would have come into full communion with each other by now.
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ConstantineTG
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Is it pride from both sides? If each side believes they have the truth, why should they compromise the truth? For the sake of ecumenism? Of unity? Should we become heterodox just to have everyone under our wing? Its like saying, should we embrace Arianism just so we will have the SDA, JW and LDS under our wing. The problem is each side believes the truth to be the opposite of what the other believes. The Orthodox believe the Pope’s current authority is a heterodox faith. Why would they give in? The Catholic side believes that the Pope’s current authority is dogma. Why would we throw away a dogma?
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ConstantineTG
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Unfortunately it is not that simple. You cannot undogmatize a dogma. You will have to declare it a heresy and excommunicate the Pope and all those involved in the heresy. By doing so you have proven that the Pope lost his Papal authority at the time and thus could not have declared something infallibly. Only then would you have the authority to undo what has been done. But declaring a dogma undogmatized is heresy in itself unless Papal Supremacy is declared a heresy first.
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Trebor135
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Exactly. And that’s why I described the fictional encyclical I wrote as a “pipe dream”.
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ConstantineTG
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Which is as much as those who are calling for the Pope to return to his primacy and authority in the First Millennium. At this point it is just a pipe dream.
By the way, Pope Pius IX is beatified, so there is really no way he will be declared a heretic. There is no way Vatican I will be undone. So there will be no other Petrine View other than the absolutist one. Those are the facts.
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Vico
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When bishops assemble as a council and vote it would be a rare event that they would be unanimous. It is the consensus in union that is significant. So the outsiders in faith and moral must give into the consensus. Any group can declare the other as the out group, but cannot do so validly unless by the majority of the whole assembly. It was not a conciliar consensus of the whole Church that declared the Catholic Church to be heterodox. It could not be so since this was not done at the last united opportunity at the Eighth Ecumenical Council (neither 869–870 nor 879-880 by either reckoning) by the assembled bishops of the entire Church.
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TrueLight
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I don’t think it is a pipe dream at all. The Church seems to be returning to some of its pre- Vatican II traditions.
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ConstantineTG
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The Church needs to return to something way, way back than Vatican II if they want a reunion.I don’t think it is a pipe dream at all. The Church seems to be returning to some of its pre- Vatican II traditions.
And frankly, going back on Vatican II is a bad thing in terms of the Eastern Churches.
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Hesychios
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Yes.
Vatican Council II was the best thing to happen to the Eastern Catholic churches in (perhaps) hundreds of years. And it made dialogue with the other Apostolic churches possible in a more meaningful way, we are still witnessing the unfolding fruits of those efforts.
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ConstantineTG
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Well, Vatican II seems to be on the way to the recycle bin. Because if it is made optional, then no one will adhere to it.
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Trebor135
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But Vatican II emphasized episcopal collegiality, while Vatican I stressed papal supremacy.I don’t think it is a pipe dream at all. The Church seems to be returning to some of its pre- Vatican II traditions.
How would turning back the clock to 1960 alleviate the damage done in 1870 and thereby facilitate East-West reunion efforts?
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Trebor135
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In what ways?
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