Easterners, what do YOU believe about the Papacy?

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Right, but the Succession occured in Rome thus St Peters Chair, also this wasn’t an election process, as St Peter himself chose the first few successors. The exact reason St Peter and Paul wanted Mark in Alexandria, is vague which Paul didn’t elaborate on nor did Peter. However St Paul was strong in this conviction. So there are voids here which are not clearly documented.
Did the first few bishops of Rome think of themselves as successors to Peter’s authority?
For example though, lets say all Christianity become even more persecuted in this area of the World. The geographical location can be re-located with the Apostolic Sees, yet for example as with Alexandria today, these Souls are not easy to give up a area they feel was paid for by the Blood of Martyrs, as we see elsewhere.

However, I think a point in Communion is all the Bishops should be able to succeed in other Apostolic Sees. For example lets say in Russia a very great theologian resides who’s acknowledged through all the churchs, and his upward movement is stagnant because the Chair their is filled. The Pope passed away. Now being these Sees [assuming] in communion, why wouldn’t this be possible in this situation is a great question. I’ve always throught about this. I don’t know, in the early centuries for example the Eastern Church really carried Rome till Constantine. Though they didn’t view it as an Us and Them senerio, but a united Church.
You describe the Papacy as if it is a managerial position waiting to be filled by the next high achiever. Peter was not the smartest among the Apostles. He is also generally believed to be illiterate compared to the learned ones such as Matthew, who is a tax collector and thus literate.

The Pope is the head of the Roman Church, therefore only a Roman bishop (technically, any canonically Roman man can be, but that is highly unlikely).
Why didn’t what happen in the past IMHO bro is a kinda void which we don’t have much info on. I believe many factors came into play such as culture, mass comminication being non-existing. Yet today when this occurs, which may be centuries away, its much more likely now.
There were Popes of varied ethnic background in the past but that was before delineations were clear among the Churches. It still is highly unlikely today. Even if there are Eastern Catholic hierarchs who are Cardinals, they are unlikely to be elected for the simple reason that they are not Roman Catholic clergy. Why would, for example His Beatitude Sviatoslav, be elected Pope? Do you think he would be able to handle the SSPX issue? He probably hasn’t been to a Latin Mass in his entire life, I mean, why would he? He belongs to a different sui juris Church that celebrates a different Rite.
Good question, I don’t know, perhaps someone else has more insight here. 👍

Happy 4th CTG
 
The Ecumenical Councils were always called forth by the Emperor. This is because one bishop or one Patriarch has no authority to summon the others. Not even the Pope of Rome, at least in the First Millennium
What Emperor called the Jerusalem Council?
First, the head of the Church is Christ, not the Pope. Says so in Scripture.
Matthew 16:17-19, and John 21:15-17 Christ is the head the Pope is the visible head.
Did the first few bishops of Rome think of themselves as successors to Peter’s authority?
Yes
]You describe the Papacy as if it is a managerial position waiting to be filled by the next high achiever. Peter was not the smartest among the Apostles. He is also generally believed to be illiterate compared to the learned ones such as Matthew, who is a tax collector and thus literate.
I beleive that Peter wrote two epistles.
 
What Emperor called the Jerusalem Council?
While an authoritative and binding council, that council isn’t generally considered an Ecumenical Council
Matthew 16:17-19, and John 21:15-17 Christ is the head the Pope is the visible head.
What version are you using? I can’t find any mention of a pope.
I beleive that Peter wrote two epistles.
Constantine said compared to. 😉
 
What version are you using? I can’t find any mention of a pope.
The first is Jesus founding His Church on Peter with a significant name change-Peter=Pope giving authority by handing Peter the keys. Of course, I know your not dumb you knew exactly what I was referring to. The second is when Jesus tells Peter to feed his
Our Lord had promised the spiritual supremacy to St. Peter; St. Matt. 16. 19; and here he fulfills that promise, by charging him with the superintendency of all his sheep, without exception; and consequently of his whole flock, that is, of his own Church.
Pope is only a title for the office that Jesus established with Peter being the first to head His Church.

Constantine said compared to. 😉

Either one can read and right or they can’t. You may write better than I do but such comparison would not make me illiterate next to you.
 
The first is Jesus founding His Church on Peter with a significant name change-Peter=Pope giving authority by handing Peter the keys. Of course, I know your not dumb you knew exactly what I was referring to. The second is when Jesus tells Peter to feed his

Pope is only a title for the office that Jesus established with Peter being the first to head His Church.
I’m familiar with the verses, Catholic apologists give them all the time. On their own they do nothing, the second is even somewhat counter productive if you understand the nuances of the Greek, add in patristics and you can have some very interesting conversations.
Either way it isn’t cut and dried.
Either one can read and right or they can’t. You may write better than I do but such comparison would not make me illiterate next to you.
The point of hyperbole is that it isn’t supposed to be taken literally.
 
Did the first few bishops of Rome think of themselves as successors to Peter’s authority?.
Foolish question, do you have degree in mind reading, I didn’t take the class? They were chosen and succeeded.
You describe the Papacy as if it is a managerial position waiting to be filled by the next high achiever. Peter was not the smartest among the Apostles. He is also generally believed to be illiterate compared to the learned ones such as Matthew, who is a tax collector and thus literate…
Perhaps you interpret this way since you chose the words. I believe the BIble and that Peters position was chosen by God through Divine Intervention, and he alone was given the Key of the Kingdom. The rest is irrelevant to the conversation. Faith was the attraction from Scripture.
The Pope is the head of the Roman Church, therefore only a Roman bishop (technically, any canonically Roman man can be, but that is highly unlikely)…
Obviously something the Pope disagrees with as does history and Bible. Historically I have never seen it proved otherwise. Biblically there is “no” leg to stand on for you.
There were Popes of varied ethnic background in the past but that was before delineations were clear among the Churches. It still is highly unlikely today. Even if there are Eastern Catholic hierarchs who are Cardinals, they are unlikely to be elected for the simple reason that they are not Roman Catholic clergy. Why would, for example His Beatitude Sviatoslav, be elected Pope? Do you think he would be able to handle the SSPX issue? He probably hasn’t been to a Latin Mass in his entire life, I mean, why would he? He belongs to a different sui juris Church that celebrates a different Rite.
Perhaps you see historically now why Rome refused forced Byzantine Empire Papal election clearer. However, my point is more involvement on a larger level world wide due to the ease of communication and lack of outside influence…

Why would he? Why would anyone want communion? Or why would anyone in the Latin Rite church care less about you and how you worship? The paradox is your own thinking confirms what you want to believe. Its about viewing this entire situation not from a perspectine of the EO or CC IMO.

The Liturgy of the Eucharist the Consecration is the same in all the Churchs.
 
The Ecumenical Councils were always called forth by the Emperor. This is because one bishop or one Patriarch has no authority to summon the others. Not even the Pope of Rome, at least in the First Millennium
Listen carefully, Your point was the Papacy was created by Temporal rulers. Which I pointed out to you that ignore’s 300 years of history and contradicts scripture. The Ecumenical Councils didn’t create the position of Peters Chair. We don’t even have the actual documentation of the first two councils. How do you know what in fact happened their? The first 300 years is part of the first Millennium right, a 3rd no? Then Rome had to contend with Arianism for how long, which shows it was unwilling to compromise belief regardless of temporal rulers? Perhaps your confusing the East with the West here with Temporal Rulers, they seemed to have the greatest influence their.

Peters Chair existed before “any” council. And for “centuries”. All information recorded from this period which isn’t much indicates Rome as the principle power. Which can be read with Irenaeus, which we don’t have the original text there either but a Latin Copy from 200-AD. It was written in Greek and bits and pieces of the Greek exist.

The Councils do not indicate anything but Romes teaching authority and ability to overrule Canon and heresy. Which they obviously did.
 
I’m familiar with the verses, Catholic apologists give them all the time. On their own they do nothing, the second is even somewhat counter productive if you understand the nuances of the Greek, add in patristics and you can have some very interesting conversations.
Either way it isn’t cut and dried.
One there own? No they are very intertwined with Patristics, Language, Biblcal Context, and century after century of History.

Actually I think it is cut and dry, And the overwheming evidence of History and Scipture indictate exactly this. I keep hearing the good talk that there is this “illusive” other side to the story. I’ve never seen this proven.

If the Anglicans couldn’t prove it I doubt the EO could. I fail to see where there is anything in this arguement which has not already been covered in history. Perhaps you uncovered some new information? And this does take into consideration Patristics, Language and apologists, Bible, Councils etc. Romes arguement is compelling and IMO bears the preponderance of evidence. It could be read through the Anglican debates through Lambeth.

So where should we start with this historic task? I’ve yet to hear another convincing side to this debate. And the burden of proof resides with those who would chose to believe otherwise. The is no indication of this or reason to believe the Papacy didn’t exist in a very similiar fashion, in fact I believe this undermines the scholars of this period.
 
I don’t know what will happen to each heretic, and I’d rather not find out firsthand
But I never suggested that all heretics will go to hell. Martin Luther never stated that all heretics will go to hell. Pope Leo X was not condemning the notion that all heretics will go to hell.
Rather, the proposition I quoted earlier in the thread from the encyclical Exsurge Domine has nothing to do with the eternal fate of heretics, but rather their legal punishment through death by fire:
“33. That heretics be burned is against the will of the Spirit.”
Martin Luther was saying that it is immoral for heretics to be executed in this gruesome manner, and Pope Leo X was condemning this notion
.
If the Church condemned the proposition that it is contrary to the will of the Spirit to put heretics to death, just thinking out loud, how would one answer the following?

*Ex. 22: **18 *
“Do not allow a sorceress to live. 19 “Anyone who has sexual relations with an animal must be put to death. 20 “Whoever sacrifices to any god other than the Lord must be destroyed.d
]

Dt 13:5, 8–10, 15
,
5 That prophet or dreamer must be put to death, because he preached rebellion against the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt and redeemed you from the land of slavery; he has tried to turn you from the way the Lord your God commanded you to follow. You must purge the evil from among you……8 do not yield to him or listen to him. Show him no pity. Do not spare him or shield him. 9 You must certainly put him to death. Your hand must be the first in putting him to death, and then the hands of all the people. 10 Stone him to death, because he tried to turn you away from the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery…… 15 you must certainly put to the sword all who live in that town. Destroy it completely,a] both its people and its livestock

Dt 18:20
20 But a prophet who presumes to speak in my name anything I have not commanded him to say, or a prophet who speaks in the name of other gods, must be put to death.”


Luther was a heretic.

Therefore, If the Church is/was pro burning at the stake for heretics, as some anti Catholics think, and use Leo’s encyclical as some kind of proof text, then why didn’t the Church burn Luther at the stake? Did Leo’s encyclical promote executing heretics, ergo Luther, and particularly executing him by burning him at the stake? No. Read the encyclical in its entirety. Nothing at all suggests that.

I would tend to say, that condemning the statement “33. That heretics be burned is against the will of the Spirit.”] suggests to me, Leo asknowledges the fact, that scripture shows that the HS called for the execution at one time in history, certain heretics and reprobates. And by totally destroying them, as the scriptural footnotes state, suggests to me they were probably burned up in those passages quoted from Ex & Dt.

But that’s just me thinking outloud;)
 
Listen carefully, Your point was the Papacy was created by Temporal rulers.
I never said that.
Which I pointed out to you that ignore’s 300 years of history and contradicts scripture.
What contradicts scripture?
The Ecumenical Councils didn’t create the position of Peters Chair.
Again, I never said this. I think you need to read what I am saying carefully.
We don’t even have the actual documentation of the first two councils. How do you know what in fact happened their?
Here are the canons of the First Ecumenical Council: newadvent.org/fathers/3801.htm

Here are the canons of the Second Ecumenical Council:
newadvent.org/fathers/3808.htm

What other documentation do you need?
The first 300 years is part of the first Millennium right, a 3rd no? Then Rome had to contend with Arianism for how long, which shows it was unwilling to compromise belief regardless of temporal rulers? Perhaps your confusing the East with the West here with Temporal Rulers, they seemed to have the greatest influence their.
Rome did not contend with Arianism. Only a few bishops came from the West and the Pope was represented by two priests. It was St. Nicholas or Myra and St. Athanasius of Alexandria who contended with Arianism. Both are from the Eastern part of the Empire.
Peters Chair existed before “any” council. And for “centuries”. All information recorded from this period which isn’t much indicates Rome as the principle power. Which can be read with Irenaeus, which we don’t have the original text there either but a Latin Copy from 200-AD. It was written in Greek and bits and pieces of the Greek exist.

The Councils do not indicate anything but Romes teaching authority and ability to overrule Canon and heresy. Which they obviously did.
Can you make citations when these happened in the First Millennium? Rome certainly overrules canons, but only for herself and not for the entire Church.
Foolish question, do you have degree in mind reading, I didn’t take the class? They were chosen and succeeded.
Are we resorting to such quips now?

I never said nobody succeeded Peter. Please read my statements carefully. I asked if the successors knew they had the authority of the Pope as we understood it even in the 11th and 12th centuries.
Perhaps you interpret this way since you chose the words. I believe the BIble and that Peters position was chosen by God through Divine Intervention, and he alone was given the Key of the Kingdom. The rest is irrelevant to the conversation. Faith was the attraction from Scripture.
The rest is irrelevant? Which rest? The other 11 Apostles?
Obviously something the Pope disagrees with as does history and Bible. Historically I have never seen it proved otherwise. Biblically there is “no” leg to stand on for you.
There’s plenty of evidence that supports my statements. To be honest with you all your comments point to that you haven’t even read an ounce of Church history. I suggest doing some quick reads. Wikipedia is a good place to start. It may not be the most reliable, but it is concise and usually is about 90% accurate.
Perhaps you see historically now why Rome refused forced Byzantine Empire Papal election clearer. However, my point is more involvement on a larger level world wide due to the ease of communication and lack of outside influence…
It had nothing to do with worldwide communication. The Bishop of Rome is a Roman (Church, not secular) position.
Why would he? Why would anyone want communion? Or why would anyone in the Latin Rite church care less about you and how you worship? The paradox is your own thinking confirms what you want to believe. Its about viewing this entire situation not from a perspectine of the EO or CC IMO.
What? I think you completely missed the point of what I posted.
The Liturgy of the Eucharist the Consecration is the same in all the Churchs.
Actually, no. For one thing the Eastern theology states that, loosely, the “consecration” happens at the Epiklesis, not the Words of Institution.
 
The Ecumenical Councils were always called forth by the Emperor. This is because one bishop or one Patriarch has no authority to summon the others. Not even the Pope of Rome, at least in the First Millennium
… or because it was more practical for the emperor to be the one to do so.
I wonder if such will be the teaching if the Pope wasn’t a head of state? Since he will have no diplomatic immunity.
Interesting question! Yeah, I have no idea what the popular attitude would be in that case.
First, the head of the Church is Christ, not the Pope. Says so in Scripture.
True. But to raise this fact against the application of Apostolic Canon 34 to the papacy’s universal authority is to posit an entirely false dichotomy.

I have never been given any reason to doubt the assertion commonly made in Catholic apologetics that Matt. 16:18 is a reference is Isaiah 22:22. I’m sure you’re familiar with the concept, so I’ll say no more.
Second, we have periods of sedevacante, when the Pope dies. In the past it has taken months, even years in some cases, to elect a replacement Pope. So I don’t see what the problem is with deposing a Pope if it is warranted to do so. Just convene the cardinals after and elect a new one.
Oh, sure. I don’t mean to disagree with you on that. I’m just genuinely unsure who can depose a Pope. How does that happen? In an ecclesiastically valid sense, that is.

It’s much clearer in instances where the valid pontiff gave his assent to step down, such as when Constance resolved the Western Schism.
Did the first few bishops of Rome think of themselves as successors to Peter’s authority?
Of course we can’t know the answer to this question on an historical level. There’s simply not enough data, as we don’t have the writings of Saint Peter’s first few successors.

With one exception, perhaps: the first epistle of St. Clement I, a first century pope, to the Church at Corinth. As Corinth is clearly *way *outside the Holy See, the response of the papacy’s detractors mostly comes down, in my experience, to “Well, he didn’t order them around as if he had the authority to do so.” But I don’t really understand that reply: telling them that their deposition of their elders is invalid and instructing them to reinstate them seems pretty clear to me…
The Pope is the head of the Roman Church, therefore only a Roman bishop (technically, any canonically Roman man can be, but that is highly unlikely).
Technically, any *Catholic *man can be. So yes, a canonically eastern Catholic man could legally be elected pope of Rome.
Even if there are Eastern Catholic hierarchs who are Cardinals, they are unlikely to be elected for the simple reason that they are not Roman Catholic clergy. Why would, for example His Beatitude Sviatoslav, be elected Pope? Do you think he would be able to handle the SSPX issue? He probably hasn’t been to a Latin Mass in his entire life, I mean, why would he? He belongs to a different sui juris Church that celebrates a different Rite.
I agree.
 
There were Popes of varied ethnic background in the past but that was before delineations were clear among the Churches. It still is highly unlikely today. Even if there are Eastern Catholic hierarchs who are Cardinals, they are unlikely to be elected for the simple reason that they are not Roman Catholic clergy.
Unlikely, yes, but there is nothing preventing that from happening. Further, let’s not forget that the Armenian Patriarch of Cilicia, Grégoire-Pierre Agagianian, was also considered in the 1958 conclave. That is hardly ancient history in Papal terms.
Why would, for example His Beatitude Sviatoslav, be elected Pope?
I’d vote for him if I could 😃
Do you think he would be able to handle the SSPX issue?
Actually, his experience in a Church and country still suffering from great divides among the Apostolic Churches might give him a rather unique perspective for dealing with the SSPX issue.
He probably hasn’t been to a Latin Mass in his entire life, I mean, why would he? He belongs to a different sui juris Church that celebrates a different Rite.
Do you really think he has never been to a Roman Catholic Mass? Seriously?

Once again, the faithful of St. Elias come through: Roman Catholics Celebrate 600th Anniversary of Lviv Metropolitanate (with video)

Looks like a Mass to me!
 
… or because it was more practical for the emperor to be the one to do so.
I don’t see any evidence to that. They could have sent a legate to either one, but every time it was the Emperor. Because he is the only one who had universal jurisdiction, albeit a secular one. A bishop summoning another bishop shows that he has authority over the other bishop, and the bishops back then avoided this.
Interesting question! Yeah, I have no idea what the popular attitude would be in that case.
Yeah, we can only speculate.
True. But to raise this fact against the application of Apostolic Canon 34 to the papacy’s universal authority is to posit an entirely false dichotomy.

I have never been given any reason to doubt the assertion commonly made in Catholic apologetics that Matt. 16:18 is a reference is Isaiah 22:22. I’m sure you’re familiar with the concept, so I’ll say no more.
Well, my point is the Church won’t fall on its knees just because there was no Pope for a few weeks. Like I said, this is a normal occurrence with the death of a Pope…
Oh, sure. I don’t mean to disagree with you on that. I’m just genuinely unsure who can depose a Pope. How does that happen? In an ecclesiastically valid sense, that is.
A synod should. There are 23 Catholic Churches. If you synod the Patriarchs and Major Archbishops, or a duly elected representative by their respective synod, then that could be a synodal court.
It’s much clearer in instances where the valid pontiff gave his assent to step down, such as when Constance resolved the Western Schism.
Or when he is forced off his throne.
Of course we can’t know the answer to this question on an historical level. There’s simply not enough data, as we don’t have the writings of Saint Peter’s first few successors.
The lack of evidence is evidence in itself.
With one exception, perhaps: the first epistle of St. Clement I, a first century pope, to the Church at Corinth. As Corinth is clearly *way *outside the Holy See, the response of the papacy’s detractors mostly comes down, in my experience, to “Well, he didn’t order them around as if he had the authority to do so.” But I don’t really understand that reply: telling them that their deposition of their elders is invalid and instructing them to reinstate them seems pretty clear to me…
But in the first century they wrote to everyone and everywhere. St. Paul’s Epistles prove as much.
Technically, any *Catholic *man can be. So yes, a canonically eastern Catholic man could legally be elected pope of Rome.
No doubt. But again the likelihood is subatomic.
Unlikely, yes, but there is nothing preventing that from happening. Further, let’s not forget that the Armenian Patriarch of Cilicia, Grégoire-Pierre Agagianian, was also considered in the 1958 conclave. That is hardly ancient history in Papal terms.
And His Beatitude Lubomyr was “papable” after Blessed John Paul’s death. Until one is elected, all these are just “rumors”.
I’d vote for him if I could 😃
I would too. But the electorate are mostly Roman Catholic Cardinals. Even if you give the election to the laity, we are still outnumbered.
Actually, his experience in a Church and country still suffering from great divides among the Apostolic Churches might give him a rather unique perspective for dealing with the SSPX issue.
A different perspective doesn’t always means better. The struggles in Ukraine may not relate to the problems of the SSPX. But then again, there’s the SSJK, maybe His Beatitude does know how to deal with the SSPX as the UGCC have dealt with their kin.
Do you really think he has never been to a Roman Catholic Mass? Seriously?
A Latin Mass, ie. Tridentine. But unless another bishop has invited him to concelebrate a Mass, he really doesn’t need to be in one.
Once again, the faithful of St. Elias come through: Roman Catholics Celebrate 600th Anniversary of Lviv Metropolitanate (with video)

Looks like a Mass to me!
I said Latin Mass which I meant Tridentine. The SSPX wouldn’t even touch an OF Mass.
 
Well, my point is the Church won’t fall on its knees just because there was no Pope for a few weeks. Like I said, this is a normal occurrence with the death of a Pope.
Agreed.
But in the first century they wrote to everyone and everywhere. St. Paul’s Epistles prove as much.
Saint Paul was an Apostle. Public revelation hadn’t even ended yet while he traveled, wrote, and preached. Bishops may be successors of the Apostles, but they’re not the exact same thing.

On another thread recently, for instance, an Orthodox poster objected to calling Saint Peter “the first bishop of Rome” on the grounds that, unlike a bishop, Saint Peter - as an Apostle - traveled and taught everywhere.

St. Clement I, on the other hand, was not an Apostle. He was a bishop. I’ve yet to see a convincing non-Catholic explanation for why he should have had the authority to take action concerning a crisis in the Church of Corinth.
 
St. Clement I, on the other hand, was not an Apostle. He was a bishop. I’ve yet to see a convincing non-Catholic explanation for why he should have had the authority to take action concerning a crisis in the Church of Corinth.
Here’s one:

Corinth was under direct Roman jurisdiction until the Iconoclast emperors stripped it away from Rome and gave it to Constantinople.
 
Here’s one:

Corinth was under direct Roman jurisdiction until the Iconoclast emperors stripped it away from Rome and gave it to Constantinople.
Oh, thank you! I wasn’t aware of this. I think I didn’t know that due to the fact that I’ve had some pretty knowledgeable Orthodox Christians tell me that the extent of the pope’s authority would be that he is metropolitan of central Italy.

I do have another question, though: when was this jurisdiction established? What canonically put Corinth under Roman jurisdiction? Was this state of affairs in place by the A.D. 90s? And what was the nature of the relationship of the bishop of Rome to the local bishop at Corinth?
 
I do have another question, though: when was this jurisdiction established? What canonically put Corinth under Roman jurisdiction? Was this state of affairs in place by the A.D. 90s? And what was the nature of the relationship of the bishop of Rome to the local bishop at Corinth?
I honestly don’t know when it was established. There is no document giving Greece to Rome, it was only acknowledged as a long-standing tradition later on.
 
Here’s one:

Corinth was under direct Roman jurisdiction until the Iconoclast emperors stripped it away from Rome and gave it to Constantinople.
Not an argument. Church and State were completely seperate. They were like water and oil seperate. You can’t mix them. Especially at this early date. The Roman emperors were trying to eliminate the Church. It’s one of the reasons Clement couldn’t respond to Corinth as quickly as he wanted. The govt was trying to eliminate the Church everywhere. Look at all the Christians killed in the coliseum. Peter and Paul martyred in Rome. The persecution by the govt was relentless until Constantine legalized Christianity in ~315 a.d.

Clement’s actions with Corinth is because it’s the chair of Peter, and has zero to do with secular politics.
 
Not an argument. Church and State were completely seperate. They were like water and oil seperate. The Roman govt was trying to eliminate the Church. It’s one of the reasons why Clement couldn’t respond to Corinth as quickly as he wanted. The govt was trying to eliminate the Church everywhere. Look at all the Christians killed in the coliseum. Peter and Paul martyred in Rome.
The iconoclast emperors lived in the 8th and 9th century.
 
I honestly don’t know when it was established. There is no document giving Greece to Rome, it was only acknowledged as a long-standing tradition later on.
It strikes me as conspicuous that we have no indication that such a specific juridical norm was in place by the A.D. 90s. That’s waaaay before the 700s. And surely this juridical norm has something to do with Rome’s political/secular prominence, but the Church had no relationship with the Roman state in the first century.

1 Clement does seem to imply that an appeal was made to Rome. Why not appeal to a closer authority?

Wasn’t St. John the Apostle still living and far closer to Corinth than Rome was? Why not appeal to him?
 
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