Easter's coming--time for "The Borgias!"

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Brywan

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Is it just me, or does anyone else notice that at Easter and Christmas, we always get treated to stories of the dark side of Church history…

Not that I’m paranoid, or anything like that…😃
 
**Lets see, tonight’s show will have Rodrigo Borgia becoming Pope Alexander VI, seducing Giulia Farnese, who becomes his mistress, during the rite of confession no less.

Naw, it’s you…you’re paranoid 😉…As they might have said back then, what a pain in the gluteus maximus this is EVERY year !**
 
Is it just me, or does anyone else notice that at Easter and Christmas, we always get treated to stories of the dark side of Church history…

Not that I’m paranoid, or anything like that…😃
It just might also partially have to do with the fact that those two holidays always fall right around when the mid-season replacement shows start…
 
It just might also partially have to do with the fact that those two holidays always fall right around when the mid-season replacement shows start…
Does this also explain why Newsweek and/or Time always trot out controversial cover stories about Christianity at the same time?

Ok, I admit, now I’m starting to sound like a conspiracy theory nut–😃
 
Roman Catholic Doctrine Vs. The Doctrinal Teaching of the Word of God

Eternal life is a merited reward [1821, 2010]. - Roman Catholicism
Eternal life is the free gift of God (Romans 6:23)

No one can know if he will attain eternal life [1036, 2005] - Roman Catholicism
The believer can know that he has eternal life by the Word of God (1 John 5:13)

The Roman Catholic Church is necessary for salvation [846]. - Roman Catholicism
There is salvation in no one but the Lord Jesus Christ, “for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men, by which we must be saved” (Acts 4:12)

Purgatory is necessary to atone for sin and clean the soul [1030-1031]. - Roman Catholicism
Purgatory does not exist. Jesus made purification for sins on the cross (Hebrews 1:3)

Mary was preserved from all stain of original sin from the first instant of her conception (the doctrine of the Immaculate Conception) [490-492].
Mary, a descendant of Adam, was born in sin (Psalm 51:5; Romans 5:12)

Mary is the Mother of the Church [963, 975]. - Roman Catholicism
Mary was the earthly mother of Jesus ( John 2:1)

The Magisterium is the authoritative teacher of the Church. [85-87]. - Roman Catholicism
The Holy Spirit is the authoritative teacher of the church (John 14:26; John 16:13, I John 2:27)

The pope, as the Bishop of Rome, is the successor of Peter [882, 936] - Roman Catholicism
Peter had no successor, nor was he a pope.

The pope is infallible in his authoritative teaching [891]. - Roman Catholicism
God alone is infallible (Numbers 23:19)

Scripture and Tradition together are the Word of God [81, 85, 97, 182]. - Roman Catholicism
Scripture is the Word of God (John 10:35, 2 Timothy 3:15-17, 2 Peter 1:20-21). Tradition is the words of men (Mark 7:1-13).

The sacrificial work of redemption is continually carried out through the Sacrifice of the Mass. [1364,1405, 1846]. - Roman Catholicism
The sacrificial work of redemption was finished when Christ gave His life for us on the cross (Ephesians 1:7, Hebrews 1:3).

God desires that consecrated bread and wine be worshiped as divine. [1378-1381] - Roman Catholicism
God forbids the worship of any object, even t hose intended to represent Him (Exodus 20:4-5, Isaiah 42:8)

Justification is lost through mortal sin [1033, 1855, 1874] - Roman Catholicism
Justification cannot be lost. Those whom God justifies will be saved from the wrath of God (Romans 5:8-9).

Justification is furthered by sacraments and good works [1212, 1392, 2010] - Roman Catholicism
Justification is the imputation of the perfect righteousness of God (2 Corinthians 5:21). In Christ the believer has been made complete (Colossians 2:10).

Salvation is attained by cooperating with grace through faith, good works, and participation in the sacraments [183, 1129, 1815, 2002]. - Roman Catholicism
Salvation is attained by grace through faith apart from works (Ephesians 2:8-9). Good works are the result, not the cause, of salvation (Ephesians 2:10).

Mary, “the All-Holy,” lived a perfectly sinless life [411, 493]. - Roman Catholicism
Mary was a sinner; God alone is sinless (Luke 18:19, Romans 3:23, Revelation 15:4).

Mary was a virgin before, during, and after the birth of Christ [496-511]. - Roman Catholicism
Mary remained a virgin until after the birth of Jesus (Matthew 1:25). Later she had other children (Matthew 13:55-56, Psalm 69:8).

Each Sacrifice of the Mass appeases God’s wrath against sin [1371, 1414]. - Roman Catholicism
The once-for-all sacrifice of the cross fully appeased God’s wrath against sin. (Hebrews 10:12-18).

The Bishops, with the Pope, as their head, rule the universal church. [883, 894-896]. - Roman Catholicism
Christ, the head of the body is the Head of the Church. (Colossians 1:18).

The faithful receive the benefits of the cross in fullest measure through the Sacrifice of the Mass [1366, 1407]. - Roman Catholicism
Believers receive the benefits of the cross in fullest measure in Christ through faith (Ephesians 1:3-14).

God has exalted Mary in heavenly glory as Queen of Heaven and Earth [966]. She is to be praised with special devotion [971, 2675]. - Roman Catholicism
The name of the Lord is to be praised, for He alone is exalted above heaven and earth (Psalm 148:13). God commands, “You shall have no other gods before Me.” (Exodus 20:3).

Mary is the co-mediator to whom we can entrust all our cares and petitions 9 968-970, 2677] - Roman Catholicism
Christ Jesus is the one mediator to whom we can entrust all our cares and petitions (1 Timothy 2:5, John 14:13-14, 1 Peter 5:7).

Mary is the co-redeemer, for she participate with Christ in the painful act of redemption [618, 964, 968, 970]. - Roman Catholicism
Christ alone is the Redeemer, for He alone suffered and died for sin (1 Peter 1:18-19).

The sacrifice of the cross is perpetuated in the Sacrifice of the Mass [1323, 1382] - Roman Catholicism
The Sacrifice of the cross is finished (John 19:30).

Indulgences dispensed by the Church for acts of piety release sinners from temporal punishment [1471-1473]. - Roman Catholicism
Jesus releases believers from their sins by His blood. (Revelation 1:5).

The Magisterium has the right to define truth found only obscurely or implicitly in revelation. [66, 88, 2035, 2051]. - Roman Catholicism
No one has the right to go beyond what is written in Scripture (1 Corinthians 4:6, Proverbs 30:5-6).

Scripture and Tradition together are the Church’s supreme role of faith [80, 82]. - Roman Catholicism
Scripture is the church’s rule of faith (Mark 7:7-13, 2 Timothy 3:16-17).
 
I say forum users should monitor the show for its portrayal of Catholicism. Like what Steven Greydanus of Decent Films does for movies.

Not me though, I don’t have cable. 😉
 
**Lets see, tonight’s show will have Rodrigo Borgia becoming Pope Alexander VI, seducing Giulia Farnese, who becomes his mistress, during the rite of confession no less.
**
Well, I think it’s not a bad thing to face up to the fact that we have had some complete scoundrels for Popes.

If anything, the Church’s survival in spite of some of its Popes is one of the strongest arguments for it being protected by the Holy Spirit.

And there’s no doubt Borgia was one of the very worst, and DID seduce the then-15-year-old Giulia who became a long-term favourite of his.

During confession though? That’s a bit much.
 
Is it just me, or does anyone else notice that at Easter and Christmas, we always get treated to stories of the dark side of Church history…

Not that I’m paranoid, or anything like that…😃
Easter and Christmas every year!
 
**LilyM, Brywan Is noting the fact that these type of “pretend history” shows always seem to come out during the mosy holy times in Christianity every year.

Showing the seduction during Confession as “bit much” is a certainty, but to people that don’t know better, they believe this stuff.

I don’t believe anyone mentioned that there shouldn’t be history with FACTS, good and bad made of the Catholic Church, but why all the tawdry made-up stuff always around our most holy of days?

The proof in the pudding for me would be if they made these kind of shows every year about Muhammad and Islam during Ramadan and say, Eid al-Fitr.**
 
**LilyM, Brywan Is noting the fact that these type of “pretend history” shows always seem to come out during the mosy holy times in Christianity every year.

Showing the seduction during Confession as “bit much” is a certainty, but to people that don’t know better, they believe this stuff.

I don’t believe anyone mentioned that there shouldn’t be history with FACTS, good and bad made of the Catholic Church, but why all the tawdry made-up stuff always around our most holy of days?

The proof in the pudding for me would be if they made these kind of shows every year about Muhammad and Islam during Ramadan and say, Eid al-Fitr.**
I work as a professional historian as a career, so I guess I’m in one of the better positions to review this show. I watched most of the first episode tonight and found it to be a reasonably accurate portrayal of the problems and complexities of the period. Some of the details surrounding some of the supporting characters are not entirely known, so most of the major rumors did find their way into the series, including the seduction of Giulia Farnese in the confessional, and the portrait of her attributed to Raphael (both of which may or may not be true; there is evidence both ways). That’s not necessarily a bad thing, as it does provide the historian a way to introduce these points into classroom discussion. (A decision one way or another had to be made on whether to include them.) Sadly, Alexander VI was an extremely corrupt pope, but I do find it interesting that so far, the show does demonstrate that Alexander VI did nothing to corrupt doctrines on faith or morals in the church. Granted, the series has a long way to go, but I found no major historical red flags so far.

For the record, however, let me say that my area of professional expertise is Latin America, not Renaissance Europe.
 
Wasn’t he pursued by the Assassin Enzio Salvatore in ‘Assassin’s Creed’?! lol

:cool:
And initially by the assassin Micheletto in the beginning of this series (until he becomes employed by Cesare).
 
I’m glad to know that I’m not the only paranoid Catholic out there. 👍

It also means that some of my favorite shows should be gearing up to smear Christianity even more now that Easter is on its way. :mad:
 
**Rolltide, I agree with everything you’ve said. But,

I’m sure a writer can take any one of our whole lives and just find the possible “bad parts” and make it look like our whole life consisted of nothing but that. It would be true to an extent, but it wouldn’t be true as far as the whole life or the whole picture. That is what my concern is about these “historical” shows. They are selective in what they want you to know and spin them the way they want. And this is all some people will ever know about the Catholic Church. It may not be this show, the Borgias per say, but the whole idea.

The point Brywan was going for is the timing of this stuff. It just can’t keep being a “coincidence” that anything associated with the Catholic Church that has anything to do with something showing a negative (even factual ) history has to always be shown at our most holy times. Show this in May, or September already…**

This crimson is just for you Rolltide !
 
And initially by the assassin Micheletto in the beginning of this series (until he becomes employed by Cesare).
The very one!

You play comp. games, Prof?
Somehow, I find that refreshing and heartening!

:cool:
 
**Rolltide, I agree with everything you’ve said. But,

I’m sure a writer can take any one of our whole lives and just find the possible “bad parts” and make it look like our whole life consisted of nothing but that. It would be true to an extent, but it wouldn’t be true as far as the whole life or the whole picture. That is what my concern is about these “historical” shows. They are selective in what they want you to know and spin them the way they want. And this is all some people will ever know about the Catholic Church. It may not be this show, the Borgias per say, but the whole idea.

The point Brywan was going for is the timing of this stuff. It just can’t keep being a “coincidence” that anything associated with the Catholic Church that has anything to do with something showing a negative (even factual ) history has to always be shown at our most holy times. Show this in May, or September already…**

This crimson is just for you Rolltide !
Precisely–it’s the timing that I’m noting here, not the content.
 
I saw the Borgias yesterday and I was actually kind of bored. None of the characters seem to have a good side I could like.

I hope this gets better.
 
Precisely–it’s the timing that I’m noting here, not the content.
Perhaps, but there is a big difference between a show like “The Lost Gospel of Judas” that purports to “completely overturn what we know about Christianity” for sensational purposes, and historical dramas like this that actually recreate actual events with some degree of accuracy. I agree that you do get a lot of terrible revisionist history programs around Easter and Christmas. So far, however, I think the timing of this one is more coincidence. It falls into a totally different category.
 
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