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PRmerger
Guest
[Human] death is the separation of the body from the soul.
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Bookcat
Guest
"On Easter day the Church tells us that Jesus Christ made that journey to the ends of the universe for our sake. In the Letter to the Ephesians we read that he descended to the depths of the earth, and that the one who descended is also the one who has risen far above the heavens, that he might fill all things (cf. 4:9ff.). The vision of the Psalm thus became reality. In the impenetrable gloom of death Christ came like light – the night became as bright as day and the darkness became as light. And so the Church can rightly consider these words of thanksgiving and trust as words spoken by the Risen Lord to his Father: “Yes, I have journeyed to the uttermost depths of the earth, to the abyss of death, and brought them light; now I have risen and I am upheld for ever by your hands.”
But these words of the Risen Christ to the Father have also become words which the Lord speaks to us: “I arose and now I am still with you,” he says to each of us. My hand upholds you. Wherever you may fall, you will always fall into my hands. I am present even at the door of death. Where no one can accompany you further, and where you can bring nothing, even there I am waiting for you, and for you I will change darkness into light."
~ Pope Benedict XVI Holy Saturday, 7 April 2007
Again:
“I arose and now I am still with you,” he says to each of us. My hand upholds you. Wherever you may fall, you will always fall into my hands. I am present even at the door of death. Where no one can accompany you further, and where you can bring nothing, even there I am waiting for you, and for you I will change darkness into light."
~ Pope Benedict XVI
(w2.vatican.va/content/vatican/en/holy-father/benedetto-xvi.html)
But these words of the Risen Christ to the Father have also become words which the Lord speaks to us: “I arose and now I am still with you,” he says to each of us. My hand upholds you. Wherever you may fall, you will always fall into my hands. I am present even at the door of death. Where no one can accompany you further, and where you can bring nothing, even there I am waiting for you, and for you I will change darkness into light."
~ Pope Benedict XVI Holy Saturday, 7 April 2007
Again:
“I arose and now I am still with you,” he says to each of us. My hand upholds you. Wherever you may fall, you will always fall into my hands. I am present even at the door of death. Where no one can accompany you further, and where you can bring nothing, even there I am waiting for you, and for you I will change darkness into light."
~ Pope Benedict XVI
(w2.vatican.va/content/vatican/en/holy-father/benedetto-xvi.html)
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o_mlly
Guest
When does death occur? How do we know when the soul leaves the body? Troubling questions for the medical community. Organ harvesting only works if organs are still living. An organ that is living is evidence that the soul, the animating principle, is still present.
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NM505StKate
Guest
I would say death is when there is no brain activity and/or heart beat. Please prove the existence of a soul.
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Bookcat
Guest
See the Catechism
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Bookcat
Guest
What death is
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Wesrock
Guest
A human soul is not present in a lung if the lung is kept operating after the rest of the body dies. As for measuring the exact moment when death occurs, not sure we can do that. Biology is complex. Given the brain’s role in the intellect as a material organ, it’s life is probably the most accurate measure if we’re looking for a center, unifying point of operation for a body, but is it itself 100% the entire story in measuring death? Maybe.
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NM505StKate
Guest
How is that is physical proof? I mean can you provide repeatable proof that souls exist?
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Bookcat
Guest
Did not say it was.
I was noting where one could go and read about the reality of the soul.
Tis part of the Catholic Faith and thankfully death is not the end.
One can search out all sorts of sources in Philosophy and Theology and other disciplines for further discussion.
But this is off topic.
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NM505StKate
Guest
Death is the end. I am perfectly okay with this. It is quite calming.
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Bookcat
Guest
Your quite mistaken.Death is the end. I am perfectly okay with this. It is quite calming.
B
Bookcat
Guest
"On Easter day the Church tells us that Jesus Christ made that journey to the ends of the universe for our sake. In the Letter to the Ephesians we read that he descended to the depths of the earth, and that the one who descended is also the one who has risen far above the heavens, that he might fill all things (cf. 4:9ff.). The vision of the Psalm thus became reality. In the impenetrable gloom of death Christ came like light – the night became as bright as day and the darkness became as light. And so the Church can rightly consider these words of thanksgiving and trust as words spoken by the Risen Lord to his Father: “Yes, I have journeyed to the uttermost depths of the earth, to the abyss of death, and brought them light; now I have risen and I am upheld for ever by your hands.”
But these words of the Risen Christ to the Father have also become words which the Lord speaks to us: “I arose and now I am still with you,” he says to each of us. My hand upholds you. Wherever you may fall, you will always fall into my hands. I am present even at the door of death. Where no one can accompany you further, and where you can bring nothing, even there I am waiting for you, and for you I will change darkness into light."
~ Pope Benedict XVI Holy Saturday, 7 April 2007
Again:
“I arose and now I am still with you,” he says to each of us. My hand upholds you. Wherever you may fall, you will always fall into my hands. I am present even at the door of death. Where no one can accompany you further, and where you can bring nothing, even there I am waiting for you, and for you I will change darkness into light."
~ Pope Benedict XVI
(w2.vatican.va/content/vatican/en/holy-father/benedetto-xvi.html)
Amen!
But these words of the Risen Christ to the Father have also become words which the Lord speaks to us: “I arose and now I am still with you,” he says to each of us. My hand upholds you. Wherever you may fall, you will always fall into my hands. I am present even at the door of death. Where no one can accompany you further, and where you can bring nothing, even there I am waiting for you, and for you I will change darkness into light."
~ Pope Benedict XVI Holy Saturday, 7 April 2007
Again:
“I arose and now I am still with you,” he says to each of us. My hand upholds you. Wherever you may fall, you will always fall into my hands. I am present even at the door of death. Where no one can accompany you further, and where you can bring nothing, even there I am waiting for you, and for you I will change darkness into light."
~ Pope Benedict XVI
(w2.vatican.va/content/vatican/en/holy-father/benedetto-xvi.html)
Amen!
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NM505StKate
Guest
‘You’re’ btw. I haven’t seen any proof of heaven or hell.
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Bookcat
Guest
your
yôr,yo͝or/
determiner
possesive pronoun: your; possesive pronoun: Your; determiner: Your
Code:
1.
belonging to or associated with the person or people that the speaker is addressing.
"what is your name?"
2.
belonging to or associated with any person in general.
"the sight is enough to break your heart"Listen to the witness of the Church, Talk with exorcists or read their books and interviews (such as those who have seen the possessed levitate, know things they cannot know, speak in languages they never learned…etc), read the documents concerning the Apparitions of Our Lady and Lourdes and the medically documented Miracles…and of Our Lady at Fatima (both heaven in that is where Our Lady came from…and hell in the vision to the children etc etc.
Yes there is Heaven, Yes there is God, Yes Jesus died and rose from the dead, yes there is a soul, yes there will be a Resurrection, etc
And yes…
To quote Spock:* The hell there is.*
But all this is taking this thread again off topic.
Feel free to call the Apologist line to get into all sorts of topics with a live person (not that I am dead).
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Wesrock
Guest
It’s disingenuous to label yourself as Catholic (full stop) if you are not Catholic.
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NM505StKate
Guest
I was raise Catholic. I am questioning but identify as Catholic.
@Bookcat “You are quite mistaken” is a proper sentence. You do know that exorcists and miracles can be debunked correct? Fatima has been debunked. Ever seen a genuine filmed exorcism with the levitation and stuff? I know I haven’t because with special effects and editing anything can be shown.
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Bookcat
Guest
Your again quite mistaken.
Furthermore, you’re again quite mistaken.
Such is from the witness of the Exorcist Priests. Not about films. One can trust their witness - they are the experts. We do not film exorcisms for that is contrary to the privacy of those who are possessed. Are there films out there that are faked? I could imagine so - lots of movies out there. But I am taking about the real thing. Which is not like most movies and is* not filmed*.
But again this is all off topic. So no need for us to keep going back and forth on other avenues here. I bid you a good eventide.
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Wesrock
Guest
Understood. There’s no rule, but since you label yourself Catholic (full stop) you’re sometimes going to just quickly be referred to the CCC, scripture, and authoritative Catholic teaching sources, but that won’t do you much good.
As for the soul, the best evidence is the human intellect itself. That, paired with reasoned arguments on the nature of being and the philosophy of the mind, can make a convincing case. It’s not something you can measure in a quantifiable way. But that discussion is better directed to the Philosophy board, and is a bit of a tangent here.
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PRmerger
Guest
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o_mlly
Guest
How do we know the person is dead? If a ventilating machine is attached to the person, how do we know the machine is the only reason the lung continues to aspire? The only certain way is to pull the plug. If the soul has departed then the lung will no longer aspire. But in doing so the “dead” lung is no longer a suitable organ for harvest.
The utility of the brain death protocol applies certainly to patients who are on artificial life support as reasonable grounds to cease these extraordinary means. Stopping the artificial devices will determine if the patient is dead. The ordinary signs of life – pulse, aspiration, body heat – will not be present.
But the brain death protocol is now also utilized by doctors to call the death of a person and continue to maintain the artificial life supports devices until the harvesters can remove the patient’s organs. In the former case the brain death protocol was only indicative of death but in the latter it has become determinative.
Ought not the science that seeks to define the death event be harmonious to the science that defines the beginning of life event? Do we allow abortions until the baby’s brain activity registers on some machine? Should we allow the harvesters to possibly kill a living person because a machine could not register their brain activity?
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