Eating Bread

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Eating a piece of bread is eating a piece of bread. The rest is your imagination.
True or false?

Jesus said to the multitude, “You come to me seeking bread, but when you have eaten the bread you seek, you will be hungry again. Look, I am the Bread of Life. He who eats my body will neither be hungry nor thirsty again. Come to me, all you who are hungry, and you will eat the fruit of Eternal Lives.”

Andrew asked him, “Lord, what is the fruit of Eternal Lives?”

Jesus said to him, “Do you not yet know me, Andrew? Look, my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink, for he who eats and drinks of me will never die. And the fruit which I give, the fruit of Eternal Lives,** is that Spirit of Peace and Love and Joy and Patience which I have received from my Parents**.”

We do not live by bread alone. Jesus is with us in Spirit and in Truth, just as he said, not in a piece of bread and/or a goblet of wine on the alter. Jesus gives us truth and life; with the truth, we can experience the life. With the truth, we can eat from the Tree of Life, the fruit of Eternal Life, Abundant Life. Life is always new in the Present. Open up your Present, and accept the life that God is giving you.
 
Jethro_Tull said:
Eating a piece of bread is eating a piece of bread. The rest is your imagination.
True or false?

Jesus said to the multitude, “You come to me seeking bread, but when you have eaten the bread you seek, you will be hungry again. Look, I am the Bread of Life. He who eats my body will neither be hungry nor thirsty again. Come to me, all you who are hungry, and you will eat the fruit of Eternal Lives.”

Andrew asked him, “Lord, what is the fruit of Eternal Lives?”

Jesus said to him, “Do you not yet know me, Andrew? Look, my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink, for he who eats and drinks of me will never die. And the fruit which I give, the fruit of Eternal Lives,** is that Spirit of Peace and Love and Joy and Patience which I have received from my Parents**.”

We do not live by bread alone. Jesus is with us in Spirit and in Truth, just as he said, not in a piece of bread and/or a goblet of wine on the alter. Jesus gives us truth and life; with the truth, we can experience the life. With the truth, we can eat from the Tree of Life, the fruit of Eternal Life, Abundant Life. Life is always new in the Present. Open up your Present, and accept the life that God is giving you.
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Actually, your own interpretation of what Jesus says actually contradicts the whole idea of your post. The Catholic Church, the one Church founded by Jesus Christ, takes her Divine Spouse at his Word. When Jesus says, “This is my body”, that “bread” as you call it, really becomes His Body. When Jesus says, “This is my blood”, the wine really becomes His Blood. With all due respect, do you not even take Jesus at His very word?

The Mass is also the eternal present. At every Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, the veil between time and space and heaven and earth is lifted. We enter into God’s time and we are just as present at the Upper Room, as were the apostoles and just as present at Calvary as were the Blessed Mother, and Sts. John and Mary Magadalene. God lives in the eternal present, and, at every Mass, we get to experience that.

It’s rather interesting. There are some who will say that they take the Bible literally, especially where the creation timeline is concerned, but, when it comes to the sixth chapter of St. John, they do not take it literally (and, this is actually more important than the time frame it took God to create the world).

Furthermore, what you are also quoting is, as I understand it, something from the gnostic “gospels” which are not really the Genuine article. Even the Protestant ecclesial communities do not recognize these.
 
What you post isn’t in the bible. Fruit of eternal lives??? What the heck is that? Stick with what we know Jesus said, there’s enough argument over that without posting this stuff.
 
Jesus said to him, “Do you not yet know me, Andrew? Look, my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink, for he who eats and drinks of me will never die. And the fruit which I give, the fruit of Eternal Lives, is that Spirit of Peace and Love and Joy and Patience which I have received from my Parents.”
**You think you can impress us with made up pseudo-Bible verses?

Try again.**
 
benedictgal said:
The Mass is also the eternal present. At every Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, the veil between time and space and heaven and earth is lifted. We enter into God’s time and we are just as present at the Upper Room, as were the apostoles and just as present at Calvary as were the Blessed Mother, and Sts. John and Mary Magadalene. God lives in the eternal present, and, at every Mass, we get to experience that.
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God is always in the present. You don’t need to go to mass to be with God. You just open up and receive the life that God is giving you in the present through your life senses.
 
Jethro_Tull said:
God is always in the present. You don’t need to go to mass to be with God. You just open up and receive the life that God is giving you in the present through your life senses.
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Actually, the First Commandment, loving God, compels us to follow the third commandment, keeping the Lord’s Day. Keeping the Lord’s Day means offering Him due worship through that which He, Himself, has mandated, the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. At the Mass, we have a divine encounter with the Triune God. It is the moment where He meets with us, opens up His Word and where we go back to the moment of the supreme Sacrifice of Calvary and, where we eat His Body and drink His Blood.
 
Jethro_Tull said:
God is always in the present. You don’t need to go to mass to be with God. You just open up and receive the life that God is giving you in the present through your life senses.
Click to expand...
It is true that God is always in the present. God, however, sent his son Jesus to tell us to eat his flesh and drink his blood as true food and true drink unto eternal life. So God apparently disagrees with your last two statements. The following might help to clear up some of your misconceptions:

Please keep in mind that man fell by eating food (i.e. Adam and Eve eating the apple). Interestingly enough Jesus tells us that part of what we need for eternal life is the eating of the bread that is his body. In both cases it is real food. Please note the language in John Chapter 6 as Jesus presents the discourse on the bread of life. The word to “eat” comes in two forms in the Greek. The Greek words are based on *phago *and trogo.

Here is the sequence in John 6 for phago and** trogo**…i.e. the transition to stronger language for the word eat.
  1. Your fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, and they died.[ate/phago]
  2. This is the bread which comes down from heaven, that a man may eat of it and not die.[eat/phago]
  3. I am the living bread which came down from heaven; if any one eats of this bread, he will live for ever; and the bread which I shall give for the life of the world is my flesh."**[eats/phago] **
  4. The Jews then disputed among themselves, saying, “How can this man give us his flesh to eat?”**[eat/phago] **
  5. So Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in you;**[eat/phago] **
  6. he who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.**[eats/trogo] **
  7. For my flesh is food indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.
  8. He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him.[eats/trogo]
  9. As the living Father sent me, and I live because of the Father, so he who eats me will live because of me.**[eats/trogo] **
  10. This is the bread which came down from heaven, not such as the fathers ate and died; he who eats this bread will live for ever." [eats/trogo]
As far as the term symbol or symbolic is concerned I would say that it is important to note that there is a significant difference between a symbol and the thing that it represents. Jesus did not speak figuratively and He did not indicate that the bread and wine would be symbols. He does compare the bread of the Eucharist in verse 49 with the manna in the desert. Please note that the manna was real food. The manna is a prefiguring of the Eucharist. The Eucharist is the greater miracle just as it is the greater miracle compared to the ascension which is mentioned in verse 62. The old covenant is but a shadow and prefigures the good things to come in the New Covenant. Since the Eucharist is a greater miracle than both the manna and the ascension it cannot be a symbol. There is nothing miraculous in something that is only a symbol.

By the way this is just the beginning of what can be said on the topic of the Eucharist.

I hope this helps.
 
Jethro_Tull said:
God is always in the present. You don’t need to go to mass to be with God. You just open up and receive the life that God is giving you in the present through your life senses.
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In other words, I’ll take God on my terms, not on his. I’ll set the agenda, I’ll control the schedule, I’ll hold the power.
 
**God is always with us and “God is Love” (1 Jn 4:8).

Jesus gave us our lives and He gave us His Body and Blood as a gift to strengthen us.

Why would anyone refuse such a beautiful gift from Jesus?

Imagine if you give of yourself and prepare a gift for someone you love and they reject or ignore it. Your heart would be broken.

This precious gift of Jesus Christ costs us nothing, but so many of us doubt, ignore or simply reject this incredible gift.**

Sancta Maria, Mater Dei, Ora Pro Nobis Peccatoribus!

mark
 
Jethro_Tull said:
Eating a piece of bread is eating a piece of bread. The rest is your imagination.
True or false?

Jesus said to the multitude, “You come to me seeking bread, but when you have eaten the bread you seek, you will be hungry again. Look, I am the Bread of Life. He who eats my body will neither be hungry nor thirsty again. Come to me, all you who are hungry, and you will eat the fruit of Eternal Lives.”

Andrew asked him, “Lord, what is the fruit of Eternal Lives?”

Jesus said to him, “Do you not yet know me, Andrew? Look, my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink, for he who eats and drinks of me will never die. And the fruit which I give, the fruit of Eternal Lives,** is that Spirit of Peace and Love and Joy and Patience which I have received from my Parents**.”

We do not live by bread alone. Jesus is with us in Spirit and in Truth, just as he said, not in a piece of bread and/or a goblet of wine on the alter. Jesus gives us truth and life; with the truth, we can experience the life. With the truth, we can eat from the Tree of Life, the fruit of Eternal Life, Abundant Life. Life is always new in the Present. Open up your Present, and accept the life that God is giving you.
Click to expand...
I assume you also reject Baptism. After all water is just water.
 
Jethro_Tull said:
God is always in the present. You don’t need to go to mass to be with God. You just open up and receive the life that God is giving you in the present through your life senses.
Click to expand...
Which is a really neat way to look at it. it allows one to create their own personal god-a god that just happens to apporve of the way they live their life.
 
Pax, I forwarded your post to a friend on here, Simeon Harvey, whom you may look up under that name. Here was his response.

What am I to make of someone who, apparently thinks, “(i.e. Adam and Eve [ate an] apple).”? The Bible doesn’t tell us what they ate only that it’s fruit.

They fell because they ate? No it was because they didn’t follow God’s will and an express commandment, one rule. Despite His warning that when they ate from that tree they would die, which they didn’t, Adam lived 130 years. Genesis 5:3.

Jesus never spoke figuratively? What then are the parables?

Eating a loaf of bread manifestly isn’t literally eating the body of Christ. The Eucharist is a holy union with Christ until we can be with Him in paradise. For a long, long time (centuries maybe, I’d have to look it up again.) the rumor was spread that Christians were cannibals.

As for the manna prefiguring the Eucharist, Nietzsche said, some people will grab onto “any stick of wood in the Old Testament and say it prefigures the cross.”

The Greek word for manna is manna.

At the bottom I’ve placed Young’s Literal Translation of the Greek quoted by the author.

The Snnnn is from Strong’s Exhaustive Concordance and Dictionary. After the number is the word and enunciation. (Sorry that I didn’t quote the verse and definitions but I’m too tired to do it now, it’s 5:15AM now, at 11:15PM I got a call from a friend who badly needed to talk.

S5176 trogo tro’-go: the idea of corrosion or wear; or perhaps rather through the idea of a crunching sound; to gnaw or chew, i.e. (generally) to eat:–eat.

S5315 phago fag’-o: a primary verb (used as an alternate of 2068 in certain tenses); to eat (literally or figuratively):–eat, meat.

S2068 esthio es-thee’-o: strengthened for a primary edo (to eat); used only in certain tenses, the rest being supplied by 5315 [see above def]; to eat (usually literal):–devour, eat, live.

S3131 manna man’-nah: of Hebrew origin (4478); manna (i.e. man), an edible gum:–manna.

S4478 man mawn: from 4100; literally, a whatness (so to speak), i.e. manna (so called from the question about it):–manna.
S4100 mah maw: or mah {mah}; or ma {maw}; or ma {mah}; also meh {meh}; a primitive particle; properly, interrogative what? (including how? why? when?); but also exclamation, what! (including how!), or indefinitely what (including whatever, and even relatively, that which); often used with prefixes in various adverbial or conjunctive senses:–how (long, oft, (- soever)), (no-)thing, what (end, good, purpose, thing), whereby(-fore, -in, -to, -with), (for) why.
S740 artos ar’-to: from 142; bread (as raised) or a loaf:–(shew-)bread, loaf.

I wonder why the writer left of 59? It’s at the bottom.

49 your fathers did eat the manna in the wilderness, and they died;
50 this is the bread that out of the heaven is coming down, that any one may eat of it, and not die.
51 I am the living bread that came down out of the heaven; if any one may eat of this bread he shall live--to the age; and the bread also that I will give is my flesh, that I will give for the life of the world.' 52 The Jews, therefore, were striving with one another, saying, How is this one able to give us his flesh to eat?’
53 Jesus, therefore, said to them, Verily, verily, I say to you, If ye may not eat the flesh of the Son of Man, and may not drink his blood, ye have no life in yourselves; 54 he who is eating my flesh, and is drinking my blood, hath life age-during, and I will raise him up in the last day; 55 for my flesh truly is food, and my blood truly is drink; 56 he who is eating my flesh, and is drinking my blood, doth remain in me, and I in him. 57 According as the living Father sent me, and I live because of the Father, he also who is eating me, even that one shall live because of me;
58 this is the bread that came down out of the heaven; not as your fathers did eat the manna, and died; he who is eating this bread shall live–to the age.’
59 These things he said in a synagogue, teaching in Capernaum;
“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God…”

Simeon Hovey :compcoff:
 
My great appology!!! That was meant to be Simeon Hovey named in the above post. (Sorry, Simeon, don’t know where my head was!) :o
 
Spirithound~~“Why can’t it be both?” I think it is both/and. “Jesus” (Iusu) is wherever you put Him, eh?

Benedictgal~~“Actually, the First Commandment, loving God, compels us to follow the third commandment, keeping the Lord’s Day.” What if “the Lord’s Day” isn’t Sunday, but a state of enlightened Awareness? What if the First and Third Commandments are an injunction to wake up? If the Jesus story was re-mythologized, I do believe we would be much better off than treating it as the pseudo-history it was made into by the church in the first three hundred years of its contentious proto-existence. It’s not that it’s bad, mind you, except in such instances as the destruction of the Crusades, the Inquisition and missionary-ism*, just prophylactic of deeper understanding. By literalizing the bread, water, and wine, you have missed the point, or “sinned.” The original word for “sin,” btw, was “to miss the point.”

VociMike~~“In other words, I’ll take God on my terms, not on his. I’ll set the agenda, I’ll control the schedule, I’ll hold the power.” You can only say that because you have abdicated your autonomy to a faith, or have not yet found a way from belief. JT’s stand is one of utter responsibility for one’s self, and can be made only when belief is traded for what’s Real. He may be taking God far more on God’s terms by internal integrity than you are through faith.

EstesBob~~"*Which is a really neat way to look at it. it allows one to create their own personal god-a god that just happens to approve of the way they live their life. * Same comment as to VociMike.

*At least the Zoroastrians and their derivatives eschew this activity and thus display a deal of sanity. Insofar as missionaries do charitable work, that is fine, but that also ought to be the limit, without indulgence in proselytizing.
 
Detales,
Insofar as missionaries do charitable work, that is fine, but that also ought to be the limit, without indulgence in proselytizing.
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I guess we can be expecting your charitable works around here, then? :cool:
 
Convert66~~"I guess we can be expecting your charitable works around here, then? :cool: "

Doing my best, thanks. I’m currently doing errands for and helping both someone who is recovering from an e-coli infection (don’t get one!) and an 86yo woman. I used to do from 2-6 hrs volunteer work a day, but don’t have the juice for it any more after more than two decades of that. I’m saying that because I’m not sure if you are being sarcastic or genuine. I’m a great fan of talking one’s walk. It keeps things simple. But we all trip, occasionally! 🤷

As for on here, I expect some very small percentage will be able to take courage in hand and actually look at how and why they aquired their belief systems of any kind, and maybe make a small but significant course correction. It’s not unlike one of those magic pictures. You know: it looks like an ordinary picture or a lot of fuzz, and then, if you look at it just right, BAM! its in three dimensions and you see what’s really there. For a few it can be like that. Miracles happen. 😃
 
Detales,
I’m saying that because I’m not sure if you are being sarcastic or genuine. I’m a great fan of talking one’s walk. It keeps things simple. But we all trip, occasionally! 🤷
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Just ribbin’ ya’ a little because of the whole “proselytizing” thing.

My own journey took me the long way through inherited “faith”, dabbling, doubts, more dabbling, skepticism and a long detour through hell. That is how I came to hold my beliefs.

All my best . . .
 
We get stronger by giving each other “the business.” At least friends do. Kind of emotional “buddy bread.” At least you didn’t freak as some do. We all earn our stripes, and need respect each other for that, at least. It is more basic than agreement; it is recognition of having lived through. Agreement might eventually be built on that. It is not easy to go through a personal experience of hell, whatever one might conclude from it. But here you are, on the other side, and maybe know how to reach out a hand. That is golden grained Bread with leaven.

BD
 
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