Eating 'Halal' meat?

[meltzerboy]

Given the description I found -

To be halal certified the animal must be facing Mecca, have its throat cut while still alive and then ritually sacrificed by a Muslim who recites a prayer dedicating the slaughter to Allah.

If this isn’t a ritual sacrifice of an animal, I don’t know what is.

Sorry, I disagree.

I understand how you can get that from 1 Corinthians 8, however, in 1 Corinthians 10 he tells us not to eat it and in 1 Corinthians 8 I believe he mainly talks about the fact that it would lead your non believing brothers and sisters astray (again counselling against it).

However, aside from those two passages, I believe it is made clearer in other passages such as these -

Acts 15:28-29
28 For it has seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things: 29 that you abstain from what has been sacrificed to idols and from blood and from what is strangled and from unchastity. If you keep yourselves from these, you will do well. Farewell.”

Revelation 2:14
14 But I have a few things against you: you have some there who hold the teaching of Balaam, who taught Balak to put a stumbling block before the sons of Israel, that they might eat food sacrificed to idols and practice immorality.

Revelation 2:20
20 But I have this against you, that you tolerate the woman Jez′ebel, who calls herself a prophetess and is teaching and beguiling my servants to practice immorality and to eat food sacrificed to idols.

The same God as revealed in Jesus Christ our Lord? I don’t think so.

Okay, would be good to have a read because I am a little alarmed by this.

Okay. I believe we should probably not be prohibited, but counselled against and recommended to bless the food rededicating it to Christ before we eat it.

Yes.

I will continue eating my Vegemite and Halal meats at this stage (And avoid the Halal meats wherever and whenever possible), but I will be sure to bless them with the sign of the Cross beforehand (as I normally try to do with before I eat any food, unless they are snacks).

p.s. does simply making the sign of the cross before one eats also bless the food that one is about to receive?

Thank you

God Bless

Thank you for reading
Josh

In the description you cite, the cutting of the animal’s throat while it is still alive is required to inflict the least suffering upon the animal, rather than stunning the animal into an unconscious state without killing it immediately. Further, the blade used to cut the throat must be sharp with no nicks since otherwise it might inflict pain. This is all the same procedure as required according to Jewish dietary law regarding the humane treatment of animals. Further, in Jewish law, the knife must be wielded in one stroke.

AFAIK, the animal that is killed is not dedicated to Allah as in a pagan ritual, but rather a blessing is said in the name of Allah. Muslims are strictly monotheistic and would certainly not engage in pagan practices.

 

[KendraDZ1902]

Idk if I’ve ever had halal foods, but kosher dill pickles are the bomb dot com.

 

[josh987654321]

Paul wrote explicitly about food offered to idols. You do not have to concern yourself with worrying about that. All foods are clean, even foods offered to idols are harmless.

That said, I don’t think halal meat even meets the definition of idol food in any sense, but that’s irrelevant. If the meat was offered as a bloody sacrifice in the temple of Apollo and to Apollo, it’s fine for you to eat.

Okay, I’m still not entirely sold on this point yet, however posts here have helped and the following article also did gotquestions.org/food-sacrificed-idols.html, but I still plan to do some more research into it.

In the mean time I would rather be safe than sorry and bless myself with the sign of the cross before I eat anything in the future.

Thank you for your reply

God Bless You

Thank you for reading
Josh

 

[josh987654321]

Josh, I suggest you try searching the Catechism for yourself. It should not be hard to verify what I have said. It will be a better use if your time than watching whatever random YouTube nonsense you’re referring to.

Okay.

I found the following Catholic Answers article in regards to Muslims worshipping the same God and I am officially sold on this point.

catholic.com/blog/tim-staples/do-muslims-worship-the-same-god-catholics-do

The problem I had was with the implications of ‘the same’ as I believe we do worship the same God (One God, the God of Abraham Isaac and Jacob), however I believe the Muslims have an incomplete and faulty understanding of Him. Which in layman’s terms would mean we are not worshipping the same and that nevertheless, none comes to the father accept through Christ.
Ask a Saint – He Knows:

catholic.com/blog/tim-staples/do-muslims-worship-the-same-god-catholics-do

Pope St. John Paul II strikes the balance beautifully, concisely, and without compromise between acknowledging what Muslims get right, and challenging where they go wrong, in his excellent book, Crossing the Threshhold of Hope. After pointing out that the Church has a “high regard for Muslims who worship one God, living and subsistent, merciful and omnipotent, the Creator of heaven and earth,” he then observes after reflecting on Islam and the Koran:

Whoever knows the Old and New Testaments, and then reads the Koran, clearly sees the process by which it completely reduces Divine Revelation. It is impossible not to note the movement away from what God said about Himself, first in the Old Testament through the Prophets, and then finally in the New Testament through His Son. In Islam all the richness of God’s self-revelation, which constitutes the heritage of the Old and New Testaments, has definitely been set aside. Some of the most beautiful names in the human language are given to the God of the Koran, but He is ultimately a God outside of the World, a God who is only Majesty, never Emmanuel, God-with-us. Islam is not a religion of redemption. There is no room for the Cross and the Resurrection(p. 92).

St. John Paul first acknowledges the truth that Muslims get it right when they profess faith in one God. Then, and only then, does he point out they have it as wrong as wrong can be when it comes to what God has revealed to us in Scripture about who he is, and, I would add, what he asks of his people by way of his commandments.

Thank you for your reply,

God Bless You

Thank you for reading
Josh

 

[josh987654321]

Jews don’t recognize Christ or the Trinitarian nature of God. Do they worship a different God? Islam recognizes the truth of monotheism. They forbid idolatrous practices. Even Jews a thousand years ago were forced to concede that, and some Jews even found Islam to be closer to their understanding of the truth than Christianity, which they saw as very pagan influenced and some even argued not monotheistic (relations between Jews and Christians were also much more strained at the time I’m thinking of). That’s not to say that Islam’s understanding of God’s nature is correct or that they have the fullness of revelation or that they haven’t been misled in some aspects. But I wouldn’t call them idol or demon worshippers. I suggest checking out Scott Hahn’s talk, Abba or Allah.

vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p123a9p3.htm

This doesn’t mean they don’t need Jesus, of course. I suggest reading the whole section.

Thank you Wesrock, As I said above, my main problem was with the implications of ‘the same God’ in which the following I believe helped me greatly -
"Ask a Saint – He Knows:

catholic.com/blog/tim-staples/do-muslims-worship-the-same-god-catholics-do

Pope St. John Paul II strikes the balance beautifully, concisely, and without compromise between acknowledging what Muslims get right, and challenging where they go wrong, in his excellent book, Crossing the Threshhold of Hope. After pointing out that the Church has a “high regard for Muslims who worship one God, living and subsistent, merciful and omnipotent, the Creator of heaven and earth,” he then observes after reflecting on Islam and the Koran:

Whoever knows the Old and New Testaments, and then reads the Koran, clearly sees the process by which it completely reduces Divine Revelation. It is impossible not to note the movement away from what God said about Himself, first in the Old Testament through the Prophets, and then finally in the New Testament through His Son. In Islam all the richness of God’s self-revelation, which constitutes the heritage of the Old and New Testaments, has definitely been set aside. Some of the most beautiful names in the human language are given to the God of the Koran, but He is ultimately a God outside of the World, a God who is only Majesty, never Emmanuel, God-with-us. Islam is not a religion of redemption. There is no room for the Cross and the Resurrection(p. 92).

St. John Paul first acknowledges the truth that Muslims get it right when they profess faith in one God. Then, and only then, does he point out they have it as wrong as wrong can be when it comes to what God has revealed to us in Scripture about who he is, and, I would add, what he asks of his people by way of his commandments.

I will be sure to check out that Scott Hahn’s talk too, Thank you for your reply.

God Bless You

Thank you for reading
Josh

CCC 841: The Church’s relationship with the Muslims. "The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day.

That is current Church teaching. They just have an incomplete understanding of His nature. They only see part of the picture, but it’s the same picture–not a different picture.

The peace of Christ,
Mark

Thank you MarkInOregon, I believe I mainly had trouble with this because of the implications I had of ‘the same God’ which were different than what was intended.

God Bless You

Thank you for reading
Josh

 

[josh987654321]

In the description you cite, the cutting of the animal’s throat while it is still alive is required to inflict the least suffering upon the animal, rather than stunning the animal into an unconscious state without killing it immediately. Further, the blade used to cut the throat must be sharp with no nicks since otherwise it might inflict pain. This is all the same procedure as required according to Jewish dietary law regarding the humane treatment of animals. Further, in Jewish law, the knife must be wielded in one stroke.

AFAIK, the animal that is killed is not dedicated to Allah as in a pagan ritual, but rather a blessing is said in the name of Allah. Muslims are strictly monotheistic and would certainly not engage in pagan practices.

It wasn’t specifically certain rules/guidelines for the preparation of food that got me but more the fact that it had to be done facing towards Mecca. That’s what first alarmed me and created similarities between Idols.

Thank you for your reply though.

God Bless You

Thank you for reading
Josh

 

[Rau]

It wasn’t specifically certain rules/guidelines for the preparation of food that got me but more the fact that it had to be done facing towards Mecca. That’s what first alarmed me and created similarities between Idols.

It’s beyond me how or why a ritual performed by someone else - his choice not yours - in an abattoir would be of the slightest interest to you if it does not harm the meat.

 

[josh987654321]

It’s beyond me how or why a ritual performed by someone else - his choice not yours - in an abattoir would be of the slightest interest to you if it does not harm the meat.

It may not affect the meat in anyway, but it does affect the ones who prepared it and the ones partaking of it with such knowledge.
1 Corinthians 10:14-33:

14 Therefore, my beloved, shun the worship of idols. 15 I speak as to sensible men; judge for yourselves what I say. 16 The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not a participation in the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not a participation in the body of Christ? 17 Because there is one bread, we who are many are one body, for we all partake of the one bread. 18 Consider the practice of Israel; are not those who eat the sacrifices partners in the altar? 19 What do I imply then? That food offered to idols is anything, or that an idol is anything? 20 No, I imply that what pagans sacrifice they offer to demons and not to God. I do not want you to be partners with demons. 21 You cannot drink the cup of the Lord and the cup of demons. You cannot partake of the table of the Lord and the table of demons. 22 Shall we provoke the Lord to jealousy? Are we stronger than he?

Do All to the Glory of God

23 “All things are lawful,” but not all things are helpful. “All things are lawful,” but not all things build up. 24 Let no one seek his own good, but the good of his neighbor. 25 Eat whatever is sold in the meat market without raising any question on the ground of conscience. 26 For “the earth is the Lord’s, and everything in it.” 27 If one of the unbelievers invites you to dinner and you are disposed to go, eat whatever is set before you without raising any question on the ground of conscience. 28 (But if some one says to you, “This has been offered in sacrifice,” then out of consideration for the man who informed you, and for conscience’ sake— 29 I mean his conscience, not yours—do not eat it.) For why should my liberty be determined by another man’s scruples? 30 If I partake with thankfulness, why am I denounced because of that for which I give thanks?

31 So, whether you eat or drink, or whatever you do, do all to the glory of God. 32 Give no offense to Jews or to Greeks or to the church of God, 33 just as I try to please all men in everything I do, not seeking my own advantage, but that of many, that they may be saved.

1 Corinthians 8:1-13:

Food Offered to Idols

8 Now concerning food offered to idols: we know that “all of us possess knowledge.” “Knowledge” puffs up, but love builds up. 2 If any one imagines that he knows something, he does not yet know as he ought to know. 3 But if one loves God, one is known by him.

4 Hence, as to the eating of food offered to idols, we know that “an idol has no real existence,” and that “there is no God but one.” 5 For although there may be so-called gods in heaven or on earth—as indeed there are many “gods” and many “lords”— 6 yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.

7 However, not all possess this knowledge. But some, through being hitherto accustomed to idols, eat food as really offered to an idol; and their conscience, being weak, is defiled. 8 Food will not commend us to God. We are no worse off if we do not eat, and no better off if we do. 9 Only take care lest this liberty of yours somehow become a stumbling block to the weak. 10 For if any one sees you, a man of knowledge, at table in an idol’s temple, might he not be encouraged, if his conscience is weak, to eat food offered to idols? 11 And so by your knowledge this weak man is destroyed, the brother for whom Christ died. 12 Thus, sinning against your brethren and wounding their conscience when it is weak, you sin against Christ. 13 Therefore, if food is a cause of my brother’s falling, I will never eat meat, lest I cause my brother to fall.

This is all I could find on the subject from St Paul.

I hope this has helped

God Bless You

Thank you for reading
Josh

 

[Rau]

It may not affect the meat in anyway, but it does affect the ones who prepared it and the ones partaking of it with such knowledge.

In your own words, how might consuming meat, the subject of a ritual meaningless to you, harm you?

 

[josh987654321]

In your own words, how might consuming meat, the subject of a ritual meaningless to you, harm you?

Because the ritual is not ‘meaningless’ to the neighbors who performed it and believe in it. Furthermore, I believe it would be scandalous to partake of it as I believe St Paul says. Which is why if I have no other choice I will simply bless myself with the sign of the cross before I eat it as I was reading something along those lines in St Francis de Sales book ‘Sign of the Cross’

I hope this has helped (I’m still learning myself)

God Bless You

Thank you for reading
Josh

 

[Rau]

Because the ritual is not ‘meaningless’ to the neighbors who performed it and believe in it. Furthermore, I believe it would be scandalous to partake of it as I believe St Paul says. Which is why if I have no other choice I will simply bless myself with the sign of the cross before I eat it as I was reading something along those lines in St Francis de Sales book ‘Sign of the Cross’

Is there any Church teaching (not a passage of Scripture that you are applying yourself) that instructs, exhorts or advises you to shun meat the subject of a ritual of any kind, in particular a ritual you did not seek and one which has no meaning for you?

Are we speaking of a bag of Jerky beef you bought at the Asian grocer (or wherever) or a meal served to you by your Moslem neighbour (if there is any relevant difference).

 

[Wesrock]

It may not affect the meat in anyway, but it does affect the ones who prepared it and the ones partaking of it with such knowledge.

This is all I could find on the subject from St Paul.

I hope this has helped

God Bless You

Thank you for reading
Josh

Romans 14, too.

There’s nothing wrong with eating idol food in and of itself if you believe it meaningless. It’s also wrong to eat it if it would seriously scandalize others or if you believe it has any real power. Paul was writing to a first century audience when temple meat was a thing. But he does himself say that if you believe it has now power it’s fine to eat.

Anyway, regarding facing the animal towards Mecca, the Kaaba isn’t an idol or God. It’s a temple. Islam claims it was built by Abraham and Ishmael, and that it’s the site of the first temple built by Adam. Now, I’m not saying this is correct, but they don’t think of it as a God. However, it is something they venerate (and not give worship due to God alone), which is a concept Catholics should be familiar with. Their way of killing animals is very similar to Jewish practices. It seems a blessing is said over it before it’s killed. Allah is only the Arabic word for God. It’s not a name. Arabic Christians use “allah” when speaking of our idea of God, too. I’m sorry if any of that is redundant.

Anyway, I may follow Saint Paul’s advice in Romans. If it truly bothers you, then don’t eat it, and I won’t judge you for it.

 

[Gia_B]

gotquestions.org/food-sacrificed-idols.html

Got Questions is not a good source and is best avoid, especially if one doesn’t already have a solid foundation for understanding what the church teaches.

 

[patrick457]

I don’t know much about ‘Kosher’ and I haven’t found that label on anything I normally eat (However I haven’t known to check) I’ll have to look into it.

If you know your Bible, do you remember all those food laws God gave to the Israelites in the Old Testament? That’s essentially what kosher is: food that conform to those dietary laws (kashrut).