Eating meat on Friday a mortal sin?

[bobzills]

How many times do we have to tell you before you get it??
Here it is again:

According to the Church’s law, "the substantial observance of Fridays as days of penance, whether by abstinence or in other ways, is a grave obligation"(Paenitemini, Norm II, 2).

Penance on Fridays is NOT voluntary. It is mandatory but you are free to choose the type of penance you do. Stop arguing with us. You asked for substantiation and we have given it.
Refer the source documents we have given you to a priest and come back and tell us what he says.

Sorry, but my local priest tells me that it is voluntary and it is not a sin if you eat meat on Friday and do not do a penance. (Except for Lent).

 

[Sir_Knight]

It APPEARS that your local priest is in disagreement with official church teaching.

 

[TC2]

When did this requirement first begin, and by whom, and why?
Not being snarky, just genuinely curious.
Jesus Himself said it wasn’t what went in our mouths that made us unclean, but rather what came out, so why this ‘rule’?

 

[Sir_Knight]

Someone correct me if I am wrong but I believe that the practise of not eating meat on Fridays has been around for centuries. Then at the Second Vatican Council, they officially loosened the practise leaving it up to the individual as to what penance they would perform – they could continue to abstain from meat or perform some other penance of their own choosing but performing the penance was still required under penality of mortal sin.

While it is true that Jesus Himself said it wasn’t what went in our mouths that made us unclean, but rather what came out, Jesus also said that whatever the Church bounded on earth would be bounded in heaven and whatever the church loosened on earth would be loosened in heaven. The Church, therefore, can establish certain disciplines to help the believer walk the straight and narrow path. Performing the Friday Penance is one of those disciplines.

Eating meat is not sinful but disobeying the Church when it tells us not to eat meat IS sinful in the same manner that eating the forbidden fruit by Adam & Eve was not sinful but disobeying God when He told them not to eat of that tree was sinful.

 

[TC2]

Thank you, Sir Knight.

I guess my next question would be, why would the church not leave it as a suggestion, instead of turning it into a sin? Again, I reference the Jesus quote above. Why go against His own word?

If the Catholic church represents God, why would He change His mind? And then the whole, ‘it’s a sin, no matter what, to: it’s a sin, unless you do penance’ seems kinda flip floppy, too. I mean, it is, but then it isn’t, unless, and then it is again…
Again, not being snarky, but I don’t understand?

 

[thistle]

Sorry, but my local priest tells me that it is voluntary and it is not a sin if you eat meat on Friday and do not do a penance. (Except for Lent).

Did you just ask him or did you show him the documents?
Why don’t you google for Paenitemini (lots of websites with the document), print the document and show it to your priest.

 

[Sir_Knight]

Thank you, Sir Knight.

I guess my next question would be, why would the church not leave it as a suggestion, instead of turning it into a sin? Again, I reference the Jesus quote above. Why go against His own word?

If the Catholic church represents God, why would He change His mind? And then the whole, ‘it’s a sin, no matter what, to: it’s a sin, unless you do penance’ seems kinda flip floppy, too. I mean, it is, but then it isn’t, unless, and then it is again…
Again, not being snarky, but I don’t understand?

Does Jesus’s word go against the actions of God the Father? After all, it was the eating of the forbidden fruit that caused all of mankind to fall from grace.

 

[Apryl]

When did this requirement first begin, and by whom, and why?
Not being snarky, just genuinely curious.
Jesus Himself said it wasn’t what went in our mouths that made us unclean, but rather what came out, so why this ‘rule’?

No one said that meat for Catholics was unclean. That’s not the point. If it were, would one be allowed to eat that same meat on Monday, or on Christmas day?

This is not a rule that all meats are bad, or all of a certain type of meat is bad.

What I often think about is, 'Man, I REALLY want some chicken… or some spare ribs… oh, gosh, I want to have some tacos really bad… but because it’s Friday, I won’t"

When that happens, I actually THINK about what I’m giving up, and why. The point has never been taught to me that the meat is what’s bad.

'Smatter of fact, I think it was posted in an earlier thread by someone who I happen to respect

I don’t know how to do the link thing, but clicking on that blue arrow will take you to the earlier post

I have had many that hadn’t a clue about Catholic Friday Fasts tell me ‘but a chicken won’t make you go to hell’. Which is absolutely true.

I am so thankful for CA, because this allows us as Catholics to better understand what the teachings of the church are. Otherwise, many will defy the church, but not out of defiance, but out of ignorance, which then leads to contempt, and more bad things.

I often notice that many of the same Catholics that say ‘I only observe the Friday feast during Lent’ find themselves forgetting and eating on Fridays during Lent, then they have to feel guilty about it.

If it meant me starving, or me getting sick because of it, I could see it as something more than a simple reminder. For me, it serves as a reminder. I’m thankful.

 

[bobzills]

Did you just ask him or did you show him the documents?
Why don’t you google for Paenitemini (lots of websites with the document), print the document and show it to your priest.

Because I show humility, deference and respect to my priest, who is an alter Christus.

 

[jemfinch]

That said, care to make the clarification now? Or did you ever have a point to begin with?

I don’t see how it could be unclear, but I simply wish that people, when talking about such eternal things as damnation, would speak of violation of God’s eternal divine law, rather than particular instances that happen to be the case at this moment in time.

Saying “Eating meat on a Friday is grave matter and can send you to hell” makes God out to be a tyrant for punishing so apparently small an infraction with so steep a penalty. But saying, “Violating a precept of the Church is grave matter and can send you to hell,” emphasizes the eternal, divine law in a way that doesn’t trivialize the act of rebellion or make God out to be a tyrant: it makes sense that violating a precept of the authority God left on earth should be grave matter. Saying it one way emphasizes the incidentally grave matter that is eating meat on a Friday; saying it the other way emphasizes the fundamental rule responsible for the gravity of such an act.

Jeremy

 

[jemfinch]

After all, it was the eating of the forbidden fruit that caused all of mankind to fall from grace.

Ooh, good point!

Jermy

 

[Sir_Knight]

Because I show humility, deference and respect to my priest, who is an alter Christus.

But the teachings of individual priests is not ensured to be correct. Only the teachings of the official church has that assurance. And if your priest guides you incorrectly, will you not both be lost? For did our Lord, Himself, not tell us in Matthew 15:14–* “if the blind lead the blind, both* will fall into the pit”?

 

[mercygate]

So if you eat a hot dog on Friday and you don’t do a penance or work of charity, is that a mortal sin?

It’s a mortal sin only if you are a healthy person with no medical reason for eating a hot dog (which is practically poison anyway, so the “medical” excuse rarely applies here), and you eat that hot dog with full knowledge of the precept concerning Friday abstinence. It is not the hot dog, per se, but the defiance that is the sin. Remember Paul? He speaks of “obedience, which leads to righteousness.” Our Lord speaks of being faithful in small things . . .

Even as a Protestant I used to abstain from meat on Fridays as a remembrance – even in a small, almost insignificant way – our Lord’s Passion. I like meat. I’m from the Midwest, where meat is practically a religion. So for me, even luxurious shellfish was in some measure “penitential” because I would at any point have preferred meat. FWIW, even my anti-Catholic grandmother never put meat on the table of Fridays.

 

[mercygate]

When did this requirement first begin, and by whom, and why?
Not being snarky, just genuinely curious.
Jesus Himself said it wasn’t what went in our mouths that made us unclean, but rather what came out, so why this ‘rule’?

Jesus also said “When you fast . . .” – and he said that when the Bridegroom is taken from us we will fast . . . "

Fasting and abstinence from meat as a form of discipline and penance is at least as ancient as the 4th Century – when Christianity became legally tolerated, thus removing blood martyrdom as the penitential option of choice.

 

[mercygate]

Because I show humility, deference and respect to my priest, who is an alter Christus.

But he is responsible, as your pastor, for guiding you according to the precepts of the Church. A lot of pastors today were formed during a period of extreme confusion, and a lot of seminaries taught a lot of off-the-mark theology and discipline.

That’s why God gave us CAF and EWTN!

 

[jssaxon]

So, if you knowingly and willingly eat meat on Friday and die of a cardiac arrest from eating all the cholesterol in the meat later that day, and you haven’t repented, then you go to Hell? Does that sound rational?

 

[lizaanne]

When did this requirement first begin, and by whom, and why?
Not being snarky, just genuinely curious.
Jesus Himself said it wasn’t what went in our mouths that made us unclean, but rather what came out, so why this ‘rule’?

Remember also, that as Catholics, we don’t live Sola Scriptura in our Faith. We have Tradition as well. Not every single thing that Christ said and did was written down - He left us His Church to guide is until He returns.

~Liza

 

[Apryl]

Saying “Eating meat on a Friday is grave matter and can send you to hell” makes God out to be a tyrant for punishing so apparently small an infraction with so steep a penalty. But saying, “Violating a precept of the Church is grave matter and can send you to hell,” emphasizes the eternal, divine law in a way that doesn’t trivialize the act of rebellion or make God out to be a tyrant: it makes sense that violating a precept of the authority God left on earth should be grave matter. Saying it one way emphasizes the incidentally grave matter that is eating meat on a Friday; saying it the other way emphasizes the fundamental rule responsible for the gravity of such an act.

Thank you for the clarification.

Happy Friday!

 

[Apryl]

So, if you knowingly and willingly eat meat on Friday and die of a cardiac arrest from eating all the cholesterol in the meat later that day, and you haven’t repented, then you go to Hell? Does that sound rational?

Please take a few moments and read this entire thread.

It has been stated several times, in many ways, but loads of people that the ‘sin’ isn’t in the eating of meat. The sin is being disobedient.

We all have the chance to do wrong (we have free will), but we all have the opportunity to make right by being reconciled to the church through the sacrament of Reconciliation.

Is it fair to have someone do wrong and be punished for it? Is it irrational that there is Heaven and Hell?

I think this is why it is important for every one to have a well informed conscience. That way, they don’t live a life of defiance for the sake of being defiant, and they don’t resist teachings that they haven’t learned (Man, you eat a ham sandwich on a Friday, you will burn in hell for eternity! — something someone may say to you on a schoolyard, but is NOT a teaching from the church!!!)

 

[Sir_Knight]

So, if you knowingly and willingly eat meat on Friday and die of a cardiac arrest from eating all the cholesterol in the meat later that day, and you haven’t repented, then you go to Hell? Does that sound rational?

And Eve ate of the fruit and gave some to her husband to eat and because they ate of the fruit, they were banished from the garden of eden and all of their off-spring were stained with original sin. Does that sound rational to you.