Eating meat this Friday at in-laws

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ack said:
The Friday after Christmas is a Solemnity? Do you have a source for this?
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Every day from Christmas to January 1 inclusive is celebrated as a solemnity, by the very fact that it’s in the Octave, if of course we understand what an Octave is.

But since you asked:
  1. Solemnities are counted as the principal days in the calendar and their observance begins with evening prayer I of the preceding day. Some also have their own vigil Mass for use when Mass is celebrated in the evening of the preceding day. **The celebration of Easter and Christmas, the two greatest solemnities, continues for eight days, with each octave governed by its own rules. **
From the General Norms on the Liturgical Year and the Calendar.
 
cat3gs said:
Hey all,

Ok, quick question. This Friday we will be going to the in-laws to celebrate Christmas. They will be serving ham. My daughters and I dont eat meat on Fridays. Most of the people that will be there are not Catholic and the ones that are–not sure what they do on Fridays. Should my girls and I not eat the ham or offer something else up ? I dont want to come across as being holier than thou around that group but at the same time I dont want what other people think to stop me from doing what I normally do for my faith.

Now… which would be the bigger sacrifice…not eating ham on Friday ort he fact that I will be at the in-laws? 🙂 Dont get me wrong…great people. They are just incredibly boring -small talky kind of people. And yes, I am incredibly thankful that that is all they are:D

My way of thinking is just find something else to sacrifice. And if, what would you guys suggest be that sacrifice?

Ok, let fly with the suggestions.

Merry Christmas

JMJ
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My advice:
Love Jesus.
Eat and enjoy!
Jesus is not against ham. He wants a contrite heart and that you have a heart for people.
Test Scripture and I think you will find that this is really what its all about. Ask yourself why you make rules for your self… Is it so you grow in love for God and man or is it so that you feel control and feel you have a “religious life” to clutch on to?
I remember the time where I used to fast on bread and water on wednesdays and fridays. My mother made wonderful dinners for me because she forgot my rules again and again. That disapointment in her eyes when I turned down her good food!.. I dont believe that was Gods plan… that was my own attempt to justify my self and draw close to God but in a fearful and wrong way. I read the Scripture verse now where Paul says: “Spiritual exercise matters only little”.
I dont mind fasting, mind you… but it should never become a rutine where you forget the things that really matter.
 
Some of you insist that there should be another sacrifice instead… I dont know why on earth. Come on… Jesus came to bring freedom and joy and bring people together in true love.
Give your heart to the people and that will be the sacrifice … if you wanna sacrifice something then sacrifice that you could not sacrifice what you wanted… thats a good sacrifice. sacrifice your will and your control… or if you are uncomfortable with that then do the dishes…
 
The Friday after Christmas is a feast, not a solemnity. The default rule is abstinence on all Fridays of the year. In those places where this has not been changed, dispensation is required for the Second Day of Christmas - for example here, in Poland. The Octave of Easter is different in that those days are solemnities, so there is no abstinence requirement.
GraceDK said:
Some of you insist that there should be another sacrifice instead… I dont know why on earth.
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Because typically dispensations involve the requirement of some other form of penance. For example, the primatial decree binding in Poland gives a dispensation to those who eat at eateries and cannot pick their menu, but they are required to offer some form of penance instead. As far as I know about the American Conference of Bishops’ laws making abstinence on Fridays non-binding except Lent, they at least urged some other form of penance.
 
for the octave of Christmas we are still celebrating the feast, and the traditional rules of fast and abstinence did not apply during this time. If you choose these disciplines, you can be guided by that practice, but in any case, charity should be a priority. All you have to do is say I am not allowed to have the ham (don’t say why, if they assume it is a medical diet let them), but these rutabagas and beets looks so good I am going to fill up while I can. better yet, just eat what is served which is true humility and the proper response to hospitality.
 
puzzleannie said:
for the octave of Christmas we are still celebrating the feast, and the traditional rules of fast and abstinence did not apply during this time.
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That is not exactly accurate. Solemnities trump abstinence, feasts do not. I’m not sure how it was before, but now in a place where Friday abstinence is binding (this is the default rule in canon law, no binding Friday abstinence in the US is a particular law that changes it), abstinence binds as a matter of law on the Second Day of Christmas. This is basically an answer to, “what is the relationship between Friday abstinence and the Second Day of Christmas.” The Opening Poster’s situation is different not because tomorrow is the second day of Christmas, but because Friday abstinence binds only on Lenten Fridays within the United States as a result of American Conference of Bishops’ regulations from the 60.-ies.

According to Catholic Encyclopedia, there was a custom that the Second Day of Christmas suppressed Friday abstinence. I may be wrong, but it looks to me like it was specifically being the Second Day of Christmas rather than a day of the Octave of Christmas. However, it doesn’t seem to be binding now because:
Can. 1251 Abstinence from meat, or from some other food as determined by the Episcopal Conference, is to be observed on all Fridays, unless a solemnity should fall on a Friday. Abstinence and fasting are to be observed on Ash Wednesday and Good Friday.
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And the Second Day of Christmas is a feast, not a solemnity. Only the First Day is a solemnity. The second is the feast of St Stephen. This is the reason why bishops grant dispensations to eat meat on this day in countries which have not changed the default rule of abstaining from meat on Fridays.
 
chevalier said:
That is not exactly accurate. Solemnities trump abstinence, feasts do not.
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the traditional practice is that the octave of Christmas and Easter are feast times, feast means, we do not fast and abstain. see the same question in AAA today. If you have one of those old parish calendars that used to have little fish on abstinence days, and still marked stuff like ember days and rogation days, you will see what I mean.
 
puzzleannie said:
the traditional practice is that the octave of Christmas and Easter are feast times, feast means, we do not fast and abstain. see the same question in AAA today. If you have one of those old parish calendars that used to have little fish on abstinence days, and still marked stuff like ember days and rogation days, you will see what I mean.
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I don’t know with 100% certainty how it was before, although it seems Octaves were more plentiful and there were more days trumping abstinence than nowadays, but currently feasts do not trump abstinence - the canon law is clear that it’s only solemnities which do. Therefore, my bishop was right in issuing the dispensation, as were other bishops in my country. Traditional practice couldn’t trump current canon law. Therefore I am also right in saying that tomorrow being the Second Day of Christmas does not change anything in the OP’s situation. Only the special laws of the American Conference of Bishops removing obligatory Friday abstinence do. It being the Second Day of Christmas is a better reason than most to suspend a private practice of not eating meat on Friday in a country where one is allowed to eat meat on any Friday, sure, but were the default rule binding, dispensation would be required. It would most likely be given on the bishop’s own initiative, but it would be required.
 
chevalier said:
I don’t know how it was before, but feats do not trump abstinence - the canon law is clear that it’s only solemnities which do. Therefore, my bishop was right in issuing the dispensation, as were other bishops in my country. Traditional practice couldn’t trump current canon law.
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what canon law? there is no canon law that mandates Friday abstinence outside Lent
 
puzzleannie said:
what canon law? there is no canon law that mandates Friday abstinence outside Lent
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I am sorry, but your information is not accurate. Canon 1251:
Can. 1251 Abstinence from meat, or from some other food as determined by the Episcopal Conference, is to be observed on all Fridays, unless a solemnity should fall on a Friday.
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vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/__P4O.HTM

This is the default rule.

American bishops changed this in November 1966. More reading at Diocese of Lafayette:

dioceseoflafayette.org/bishop/word/bishop%20word%20062506.html

Jimmy Akin:

jimmyakin.org/2004/07/more_on_friday_.html
catholic.com/thisrock/2005/0501bt.asp

The basis for the American Conference of Bishops’ authority in making relevant regulations is canon 1253.
Can. 1253 The conference of bishops can determine more precisely the observance of fast and abstinence as well as substitute other forms of penance, especially works of charity and exercises of piety, in whole or in part, for abstinence and fast.
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Unless you come out and accuse the host of sinning for preparing meat or pork specifically they probably will not be offended. I assume they know you are Catholic just as they would know if a vegatarian, religious Jew or faithful Muslim family member were to attend.

They may expect you to avoid the meat portion of the dish, but still offer it as part of the meal since in this situation you represent the minority and the Christmas ham has been a tradition of the majority of the culture it is still offered.
 
chevalier said:
I am sorry, but your information is not accurate. Canon 1251:

vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/__P4O.HTM

This is the default rule.

American bishops changed this in November 1966. More reading at Diocese of Lafayette:

dioceseoflafayette.org/bishop/word/bishop%20word%20062506.html

Jimmy Akin:

jimmyakin.org/2004/07/more_on_friday_.html
catholic.com/thisrock/2005/0501bt.asp

The basis for the American Conference of Bishops’ authority in making relevant regulations is canon 1253.
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If you read Jimmy Akin, you will see a penance is required- it does not have to be abstaining from meat.

Cats3gs- Please eat your MIL’s ham, and don’t scrupe n this. Christmas in particular nad winter holidays in general are filled to capacity with hurt, well-intentioned or not. Please don’t add to it. Eat the ham.
 
OutinChgoburbs said:
If you read Jimmy Akin, you will see a penance is required- it does not have to be abstaining from meat.
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I read the Jimmy Akin article, but I drew the opposite conclusion from it. From the article:

“I further understand the impulse of folks to stick to their guns who have been told (and told others) for years that some kind of penance is obligatory on Friday. However, a careful examination of the relevant legal documents and legislative history indicates that this is not the case.”

“I think that a careful reading of that will sort out the muddle and reveal that the bishops were restricting obligatory penance to only certain Fridays of the year. If you disagree and think that the document is irresolvably muddled, I understand that. But I don’t see how anyone giving the document a careful reading can conclude that the document clearly mandates that the faithful are legally obligated to do a penance of their own choosing each Friday of the year (on pain of sin, no less!).”

“Thus I don’t see how–however strong one’s desire may be to find an obligation in the law–one can responsibly conclude that on the matter of obligatory Friday penance the law is not at least doubtful, in which case the doubt of law canon kicks in and tells us that the faithful are not obliged.”
 
There you guys go… speaking Catholic again… :o

What do these words mean: Solemnity? Octaves?
 
And you have made it to my ignore list…It’s a matter of noticing specks in the eye when y’all have a log in your own…🤷
 
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