Eating pork vs The Bible

[cho_pilo]

We all know that pork is unlawful in the Jewish law. Yet the Christians do eat it…

There are 2 general arguments I have heard to justify this behavior:

1. We are not under the law (the curse has been lifted )
2. Jesus stated ‘everything is lawful unto you’ (he was referring to food in the context)

To me I see both of these to be inter-related…

The law is lifted because it was ‘fulfilled’ (i personally disagree with how Christians understand this word but oh well).

According to Christian belief ‘all was fulfilled’ when Christ was crucified. So PRIOR to this point the law was still in effect.

The statement ‘everything is lawful unto you’ was said BEFORE the crucification- but this is supposedly when everything (including pork) was legalized.

But Jesus had said that anyone who breaks OR teaches against the old law (which he came to re-affirm) would be called upon by God for doing so…

So I see both of those arguments fail in this, as it leads to these problems:

1. Jesus breaking the law (by teaching everything is lawful even though pork was unlawful)
2. Number 1 leads to the law not being ‘fulfilled’
3. Which leads to the curse of the law not being take away (as its not fulfilled)
4. Which leads to Christians still being under the law
5. And that law prohibits pork.

Now question: Explain to me how you justify you eating pork from the biblical texts.

I’m not saying there is a contradiction or anything, I personally believe the Christians have the wrong belief (interpretation) about the Bible. But those of you who do argue for the 2 points (I mentioned in the beginning), explain yourself please.

 

[juliamajor]

Its actually very simple. We are not Jews and are not bound by the holiness code. If we were bound than not only abstaining from pork but abstaining from eating unclean animals and separating meat from milk products and celebrating Jewish festivals and subject yourself to circumsicion would also be be part of your life. You cant just keep kosher and not observe the rest of the law- they go hand in hand.
You’ll never find someone who is Jewish say that Gentiles are bound by the code.The Holiness code is meant for the ‘‘Chosen’’ people alone. Gentiles are expected to adhere to the Noachide Laws .

 

[Aelred_Minor]

Its actually very simple. We are not Jews and are not bound by the holiness code. If we were bound than not only abstaining from pork but abstaining from eating unclean animals and separating meat from milk products and celebrating Jewish festivals and subject yourself to circumsicion would also be be part of your life. You cant just keep kosher and not observe the rest of the law- they go hand in hand.
You’ll never find someone who is Jewish say that Gentiles are bound by the code.The Holiness code is meant for the ‘‘Chosen’’ people alone. Gentiles are expected to adhere to the Noachide Laws .

Thing is, Jewish Christians may eat pork as well.

 

[AveMaria12]

Its actually very simple. We are not Jews and are not bound by the holiness code. If we were bound than not only abstaining from pork but abstaining from eating unclean animals and separating meat from milk products and celebrating Jewish festivals and subject yourself to circumsicion would also be be part of your life. You cant just keep kosher and not observe the rest of the law- they go hand in hand.
You’ll never find someone who is Jewish say that Gentiles are bound by the code.The Holiness code is meant for the ‘‘Chosen’’ people alone. Gentiles are expected to adhere to the Noachide Laws .

Does that mean that Jews who convert to Christianity are still bound by the Law?

 

[Aelred_Minor]

We all know that pork is unlawful in the Jewish law. Yet the Christians do eat it…

There are 2 general arguments I have heard to justify this behavior:

1. We are not under the law (the curse has been lifted )
2. Jesus stated ‘everything is lawful unto you’ (he was referring to food in the context)

To me I see both of these to be inter-related…

The law is lifted because it was ‘fulfilled’ (i personally disagree with how Christians understand this word but oh well).

According to Christian belief ‘all was fulfilled’ when Christ was crucified. So PRIOR to this point the law was still in effect.

The statement ‘everything is lawful unto you’ was said BEFORE the crucification- but this is supposedly when everything (including pork) was legalized.

But Jesus had said that anyone who breaks OR teaches against the old law (which he came to re-affirm) would be called upon by God for doing so…

So I see both of those arguments fail in this, as it leads to these problems:

1. Jesus breaking the law (by teaching everything is lawful even though pork was unlawful)
2. Number 1 leads to the law not being ‘fulfilled’
3. Which leads to the curse of the law not being take away (as its not fulfilled)
4. Which leads to Christians still being under the law
5. And that law prohibits pork.

Now question: Explain to me how you justify you eating pork from the biblical texts.

I’m not saying there is a contradiction or anything, I personally believe the Christians have the wrong belief (interpretation) about the Bible. But those of you who do argue for the 2 points (I mentioned in the beginning), explain yourself please.

I recommend the book of Acts and the epistles of St. Paul, with an eye for their treatment of the Law.

 

[meltzerboy]

Its actually very simple. We are not Jews and are not bound by the holiness code. If we were bound than not only abstaining from pork but abstaining from eating unclean animals and separating meat from milk products and celebrating Jewish festivals and subject yourself to circumsicion would also be be part of your life. You cant just keep kosher and not observe the rest of the law- they go hand in hand.
You’ll never find someone who is Jewish say that Gentiles are bound by the code.The Holiness code is meant for the ‘‘Chosen’’ people alone. Gentiles are expected to adhere to the Noachide Laws .

That is correct. Not only are Gentiles (including Christians and all other non-Jews) not bound by the Mosaic Law, but they are not even permitted to follow many practices without converting to Judaism, just as Jews cannot partake of the Sacraments of Communion and Reconciliation if they do not become Catholic. Gentiles are bound only by the Seven Laws of Noah, and not the hundreds of Torah commandments.

 

[Ignatius]

We all know that pork is unlawful in the Jewish law. Yet the Christians do eat it…

There are 2 general arguments I have heard to justify this behavior:

1. We are not under the law (the curse has been lifted )
2. Jesus stated ‘everything is lawful unto you’ (he was referring to food in the context)

To me I see both of these to be inter-related…

The law is lifted because it was ‘fulfilled’ (i personally disagree with how Christians understand this word but oh well).

According to Christian belief ‘all was fulfilled’ when Christ was crucified. So PRIOR to this point the law was still in effect.

The statement ‘everything is lawful unto you’ was said BEFORE the crucification- but this is supposedly when everything (including pork) was legalized.

But Jesus had said that anyone who breaks OR teaches against the old law (which he came to re-affirm) would be called upon by God for doing so…

So I see both of those arguments fail in this, as it leads to these problems:

1. Jesus breaking the law (by teaching everything is lawful even though pork was unlawful)
2. Number 1 leads to the law not being ‘fulfilled’
3. Which leads to the curse of the law not being take away (as its not fulfilled)
4. Which leads to Christians still being under the law
5. And that law prohibits pork.

Now question: Explain to me how you justify you eating pork from the biblical texts.

I’m not saying there is a contradiction or anything, I personally believe the Christians have the wrong belief (interpretation) about the Bible. But those of you who do argue for the 2 points (I mentioned in the beginning), explain yourself please.

We are under the New Covenant. In the New Testament, God unbound us from the Mosaic dietary laws. Read Acts 10:10-15
Act 10:10 - 15 And he became hungry and desired something to eat; but while they were preparing it, he fell into a trance and saw the heaven opened, and something descending, like a great sheet, let down by four corners upon the earth.
In it were all kinds of animals and reptiles and birds of the air.
And there came a voice to him, “Rise, Peter; kill and eat.”
But Peter said, “No, Lord; for I have never eaten anything that is common or unclean.”
And the voice came to him again a second time, “What God has cleansed, you must not call common.”
This happened three times, and the thing was taken up at once to heaven.

 

[meltzerboy]

Thing is, Jewish Christians may eat pork as well.

Of course, Jewish Christians can eat pork since they’re neither fish nor fowl! If they identity as Jews, however, they most likely adhere to some of the dietary laws. It’s interesting that even for many less religious Jews (Reform, Reconstructionist, and Humanist), there’s still a taboo associated with pork, more so than with seafood such as shrimp and lobster. I know it’s not rational, but it exists.

 

[Aelred_Minor]

Of course, Jewish Christians can eat pork since they’re neither fish nor fowl! If they identity as Jews, however, they most likely adhere to some of the dietary laws. It’s interesting that even for many less religious Jews (Reform, Reconstructionist, and Humanist), there’s still a taboo associated with pork, more so than with seafood such as shrimp and lobster. I know it’s not rational, but it exists.

In my limited experience, Jewish Christians, or at least Jewish Catholics, generally continue to identify as Jews but don’t follow any of the dietary laws, though they may retain some other traditions, such as Hanukkah.

 

[meltzerboy]

We all know that pork is unlawful in the Jewish law. Yet the Christians do eat it…

There are 2 general arguments I have heard to justify this behavior:

1. We are not under the law (the curse has been lifted )
2. Jesus stated ‘everything is lawful unto you’ (he was referring to food in the context)

To me I see both of these to be inter-related…

The law is lifted because it was ‘fulfilled’ (i personally disagree with how Christians understand this word but oh well).

According to Christian belief ‘all was fulfilled’ when Christ was crucified. So PRIOR to this point the law was still in effect.

The statement ‘everything is lawful unto you’ was said BEFORE the crucification- but this is supposedly when everything (including pork) was legalized.

But Jesus had said that anyone who breaks OR teaches against the old law (which he came to re-affirm) would be called upon by God for doing so…

So I see both of those arguments fail in this, as it leads to these problems:

1. Jesus breaking the law (by teaching everything is lawful even though pork was unlawful)
2. Number 1 leads to the law not being ‘fulfilled’
3. Which leads to the curse of the law not being take away (as its not fulfilled)
4. Which leads to Christians still being under the law
5. And that law prohibits pork.

Now question: Explain to me how you justify you eating pork from the biblical texts.

I’m not saying there is a contradiction or anything, I personally believe the Christians have the wrong belief (interpretation) about the Bible. But those of you who do argue for the 2 points (I mentioned in the beginning), explain yourself please.

Jews do not regard the Law as a “curse” or a “burden.” It is more properly called an obligation or responsibility, as well as a means of obedience to and love for G-d and our fellow men. By paying attention to the foods eaten, the way they are prepared, and the method used to kill animals–which should be with the sharpest needle so as to inflict the least pain (Muslims do this as well)–this teaches Jews that the otherwise mundane act of eating should not be taken for granted. IOW, the whole process involving eating kosher foods sanctifies such everyday behavior.

 

[cho_pilo]

Its actually very simple. We are not Jews and are not bound by the holiness code. If we were bound than not only abstaining from pork but abstaining from eating unclean animals and separating meat from milk products and celebrating Jewish festivals and subject yourself to circumsicion would also be be part of your life. You cant just keep kosher and not observe the rest of the law- they go hand in hand.
You’ll never find someone who is Jewish say that Gentiles are bound by the code.The Holiness code is meant for the ‘‘Chosen’’ people alone. Gentiles are expected to adhere to the Noachide Laws .

Okay I can accept this for modern Christians… The issue again is Jesus breaking the law by teaching against it by legalizing everything. Thus the law was not fulfilled. And according to Jesus you would do what HE commanded you to do- which was to follow the law of Moses- so even if the law was ‘meant’ to be for Jews- Jesus extended that to anyone who follows him- so you being a ‘gentile’ doesn’t allow you to not follow what Jesus commanded.

Also the major issue that Jesus broke the commandment isn’t resolved yet regardless if you can or cannot eat pork.

Btw how do you know you’re a gentile and not part of the descendants of Jews who accepted Jesus?

 

[Heuchler]

We are under the New Covenant. In the New Testament, God unbound us from the Mosaic dietary laws. Read Acts 10:10-15
Act 10:10 - 15 And he became hungry and desired something to eat; but while they were preparing it, he fell into a trance and saw the heaven opened, and something descending, like a great sheet, let down by four corners upon the earth.
In it were all kinds of animals and reptiles and birds of the air.
And there came a voice to him, “Rise, Peter; kill and eat.”
But Peter said, “No, Lord; for I have never eaten anything that is common or unclean.”
And the voice came to him again a second time, “What God has cleansed, you must not call common.”
This happened three times, and the thing was taken up at once to heaven.

Exactly, we were removed from this law when Christ told us to eat. The Jewish Christians didn’t abandon all their old practices the second Christ rose. It was through things like this that we went away from many of the Jewish traditions.

 

[JerrySeibert]

Mark 7:15
Nothing outside a man can make him ‘unclean’ by going into him. Rathe, it is what comes out of man that makes him unclean.
Jesus explained not what you eat makes you clean but what you say makes you unclean.
Mathew 23:29 Woe to you scribes and Pharisees you adorn temples…
I have always understood these two scriptures as related. Jesus it seems to me was attempting to tell the Pharisees that no following of the ‘law’ for the sake of the law makes one holy or holier than others. God loves us all yes but appreciates and gives grace to those who love him for the sake of loving him. Not by some statute that we carry around as some burden to be used as a pity game.
Mathew goes further when Jesus condemns the pharisees for exalting there places of honor in the temple or loving the title of Rabi and not using it to teach but as some political favor so to speak.
To summarize what you say makes you unclean, as long as you do it to please God not to impress those around you hoping they see you as pious. Those around you may pray for you but God gives the ultimate mercy and gave the ultimate sacrifice.

 

[EricFilmer]

I was going to mention Acts 10 but Ignatius beat me to it. So let me state that I think Acts 10 (among other teachings of the NT) demonstrates that Christians are not forbidden to eat any particular animal.

And I would also like to say that I am from Savannah, Georgia, which is a southern coastal city. Therefore, I was raised on fried shrimp and pork BBQ, both of which are condemned within OT Jewish dietary laws. So all I’ve got to say at this point in the discussion is…

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

**“Thank heaven I’m a Christian!”
**

 

[juliamajor]

I was going to mention Acts 10 but Ignatius beat me to it. So let me state that I think Acts 10 (among other teachings of the NT) demonstrates that Christians are not forbidden to eat any particular animal.

And I would also like to say that I am from Savannah, Georgia, which is a southern coastal city. Therefore, I was raised on fried shrimp and pork BBQ, both of which are condemned within OT Jewish dietary laws. So all I’ve got to say at this point in the discussion is…

http://i722.photobucket.com/albums/ww225/efilmer/porkbackribs.jpg

**“Thank heaven I’m a Christian!”
**

MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMmmmmmmmmmmmm yummy.Amen!

 

[Crumpy]

I eat the Hebrew National hot dogs, the ones that are low fat: 40 calories per dog, one gram of fat per wiener.

Oddly, in the black on red writing which is hard for me to read anyway, it says that those hot dogs exceed the limit for sodium nitrate for each hot dog. So, I only eat one a day, at most.

On a 110 calorie bun, with ketchup, mustard, and sweet relish, that baby comes in at around 200 calories each.

They’re “all beef” hot dogs, to be sure, so there’s no pork problem, if you’re scrupulous about that.

50 years ago in Catholic high school, I argued with my priest teacher that Catholics ate ham at Easter to BE anti-semitic. He disputed my assertion, when he caught enough of his breath from laughing at my remark. I had no conviction as such about eating ham, I just wanted to give him a hard time.

He eventually left the priesthood for the usual reasons.

 

[Ignatius]

Btw how do you know you’re a gentile and not part of the descendants of Jews who accepted Jesus?

Doesn’t really matter since We are under the New Covenant. In the New Testament, God unbound us from the Mosaic dietary laws. Read Acts 10:10-15
Act 10:10 - 15 And he became hungry and desired something to eat; but while they were preparing it, he fell into a trance and saw the heaven opened, and something descending, like a great sheet, let down by four corners upon the earth.
In it were all kinds of animals and reptiles and birds of the air.
And there came a voice to him, “Rise, Peter; kill and eat.”
But Peter said, “No, Lord; for I have never eaten anything that is common or unclean.”
And the voice came to him again a second time, “What God has cleansed, you must not call common.”
This happened three times, and the thing was taken up at once to heaven.

 

[WesleyF]

We all know that pork is unlawful in the Jewish law. Yet the Christians do eat it…

There are 2 general arguments I have heard to justify this behavior:

1. We are not under the law (the curse has been lifted )
2. Jesus stated ‘everything is lawful unto you’ (he was referring to food in the context)

To me I see both of these to be inter-related…

The law is lifted because it was ‘fulfilled’ (i personally disagree with how Christians understand this word but oh well).

According to Christian belief ‘all was fulfilled’ when Christ was crucified. So PRIOR to this point the law was still in effect.

The statement ‘everything is lawful unto you’ was said BEFORE the crucification- but this is supposedly when everything (including pork) was legalized.

But Jesus had said that anyone who breaks OR teaches against the old law (which he came to re-affirm) would be called upon by God for doing so…

So I see both of those arguments fail in this, as it leads to these problems:

1. Jesus breaking the law (by teaching everything is lawful even though pork was unlawful)
2. Number 1 leads to the law not being ‘fulfilled’
3. Which leads to the curse of the law not being take away (as its not fulfilled)
4. Which leads to Christians still being under the law
5. And that law prohibits pork.

Now question: Explain to me how you justify you eating pork from the biblical texts.

I’m not saying there is a contradiction or anything, I personally believe the Christians have the wrong belief (interpretation) about the Bible. But those of you who do argue for the 2 points (I mentioned in the beginning), explain yourself please.

Great question. It made me think quite a lot and search more into the Catholic faith! After a while of searching and reflection, I have come to a thoroughly satisfying answer. Hope you find it satisfactory too.

The first question that needs to be answered is what does it mean to “fulfil” the law? In Matthew 5:17, Jesus said, “Think not that I have come to abolish the law and the prophets; I have come not to abolish them but to fulfil them.” The Greek word pleroo translated here as *fulfil * means “to make complete”. In modern usage the word “fulfil” can also mean “to obey” or “to follow”, but that is not the meaning of the Greek term.

So that leads us to the next question - How did Jesus fulfil or complete the law? One of the ways in which he fulfilled the law was by giving it its pedagogical meaning. The Catechism of the Catholic Church says in paragraph 582 that Jesus fulfilled the dietary law by “revealing its pedagogical meaning”. So according to Jesus, what is the pedagogical meaning of the dietary laws given in Leviticus 11? Jesus explains, “What comes out of a man is what defiles a man. For from within, out of the heart of man, come evil thoughts, fornication, theft, murder, adultery, coveting, wickedness, deceit, licentiousness, envy, slander, pride, foolishness. All these evil things come from within, and they defile a man” (Mark 7:20-23). So while the old testament commandment taught the Israelites to avoid eating certain foods to avoid defiling their bodies, Jesus teaches that this commandment is put in there to teach us that there are certain things that we should not allow to enter our hearts. We should not allow evil thoughts, fornication, theft, murder, etc. to enter our hearts. Paul makes a similar point in 1 Cor 9:9-12, when he shows how the old testament law was meant to teach us something deeper.

In many other places, Jesus fulfilled (completed the law). Consider this example.
Jesus said, “You have heard that it was said, `An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.’ (Exodus 21:24) But I say to you, Do not resist one who is evil. But if any one strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also; and if any one would sue you and take your coat, let him have your cloak as well; and if any one forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles” (Matthew 5:38-41). So here, we see that while the Old Testament is following strict standards of punishment, it is incomplete as regards offering mercy. Jesus brings that to completion by asking us to be merciful and not always seeking to punish.

Similarly, you will find many other cases where Jesus completed the Old law - Matthew 5:21-24, Matthew 5:27-30, Matthew 5:31-32, Matthew 5:33-37.

(To be continued…)

 

[WesleyF]

Also, “the law has but a shadow of the good things to come instead of the true form of these realities” (Hebrews 10:1). With the arrival of Christ, the true form of the realities (of which the law has shadows) have been revealed. Therefore, Christians who are under the New Covenant, cling to these true forms rather than the shadows of the Old Covenant. “Now we are discharged from the law, dead to that which held us captive, so that we serve not under the old written code but in the new life of the Spirit” (Romans 7:6). This is important and I shall briefly explain this.

“…The law is binding on a person only during his life” (Romans 7:1). “Thus a married woman is bound by law to her husband as long as he lives; but if her husband dies she is discharged from the law concerning the husband” (Romans 7:2).

Similarly, for a Jew, only his death could discharge him from the law. Once you are dead to the law, you no longer need to follow it! Jesus died. Therefore, as a Jew, he was discharged from the law because of his death. However, Jesus didn’t stop there. Jesus gave us Christians a means to die to the law ourselves - baptism.

“Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life” (Romans 6:3-4).
“Likewise, my brethren, you have died to the law through the body of Christ, so that you may belong to another, to him who has been raised from the dead in order that we may bear fruit for God” (Romans 7:4)

Notice the flow of the above arguments from chapter 6 to chapter 7 and see how Paul is making the connection. We have died to the Old Covenant and now we are under the New Covenant. Hope this helps!

 

[cho_pilo]

We are under the New Covenant. In the New Testament, God unbound us from the Mosaic dietary laws.

Jesus preached to Jews who then became ‘Christians’ but they were still ‘jews’. So can we say that those Christians who are descendants of Jews are still under the law while the Gentile Christians are not… even so…

The problem is it seems that Jesus broke the law. Jesus told his followers to follow it- and if he broke the law he was not sinless on the cross (the salvation is challenged), and the law is NOT fulfilled, which is what Paul quotes as a reason that the law need not be followed (remember PAUL was a JEW!). Please enlighten me.