EC and Marian devotions and apparitions

[GladCatholic]

this is something I really struggled with as a Latin - once I found the Byzantine Church everything seemed to ‘fall into place’ for me with respect to Mary.

I absolutely have to second this. It was identical for me. It’s been like a weight lifted off my shoulders (or conscience) that I can still honor and venerate Mary yet not feel like something was grossly wrong because I haven’t developed a devotion to the Rosary, much as I have tried.

The Byzantine Church I attend has a huge, and I mean H-U-G-E Marian iconic mozaic (sorry, not exactly sure exactly what you would call it artistically) behind the altar, and it is absolutely beautiful and one can never tire of looking at it.

GladCatholic

 

[Woodstock]

The Byzantine Church I attend has a huge, and I mean H-U-G-E Marian iconic mozaic (sorry, not exactly sure exactly what you would call it artistically) behind the altar, and it is absolutely beautiful and one can never tire of looking at it.

Not all icons are made out of paint. Some are made from wood, metal, and some from tiles. It is an icon just the same.

 

[ASimpleSinner]

Upon reflection, I apologize to Diak and Father Deacon. I perhaps spoke in haste.

I’m just oversensitive to it because I really have seen it done time and time again.

Alexios - well done. An apology when due, is always a good (if somewhat rare at times) think on forums like this.

I can appreciate your frustration over real and percieved barbs from one side or the other with the intent of demonstrating superiority. I used to walk around with a huge chip on my shoulder about how we Greek Catholics do everything better. Nowadays, in the face of a lot of reality - we tend to be shrinking and insular, and I have seen holiness elsewhere - I have dropped the chip.

As to the Marian devotions and apparitions, people need to understand that approved private revelation is NOT a litmus test for being a “real Catholic.” My Greek Catholic granny prayed the Rosary and believed OL Fatima had given the faithful a key to the defeat of the evils of communism that plagued her homeland. At the same time, some Latins never think about it at all.

Private devotions and private revelation - however public, a la Fatima and Lourdes, are just that, private.

I personally do pray the Rosary, which is Latin in origin, but can be found in the hands of Catholics worldwide of all different backgrounds. Several of our martyr/confessor priests, bishops and religious loved it. I used to have a photo of Blessed Vasyl posing for a photograph holding his.

Interestingly, though not much talked about in the west - there was a Marian apparition in Ukraine at about the same time as Fatima, that was approved. I am having a Ukrainian gent I know who is bi-lingual translate some material on it, I hope to be publishing it at our group blog (Per Christum) next month.

 

[Diak]

A link to the Akathist Hymn to the Mother of God: cin.org/akathis.html

A text of the Moleben (Service of Intercession) to the Mother of God: artemis.crosslink.net/~hrycak/mol_bvm.zip
The Canon of Supplication to the Mother of God (translation from Greek): anastasis.org.uk/lit-parak.htm

From Zarvanytsia, one of the favorite Marian sites in Ukraine: www.youtube.com/watch?v=sXfJHb2BPkw

FDRLB

 

[Aramis]

And I, raised Roman, reject the marian rosary*, but use the meditations when I pray the chotki. I do not, however, counsel others against it. I do counsel people to find suitable personal devotions.

*I will join in when participating in a public group, especially the KofC functions. I do not use it for personal prayer.

 

[ac_claire]

Alexios - well done. An apology when due, is always a good (if somewhat rare at times) think on forums like this.

First off, I just want to second this. I was going to send alexios a PM saying as much, but I’ll just write it here…

As to the Marian devotions and apparitions, people need to understand that approved private revelation is NOT a litmus test for being a “real Catholic.” My Greek Catholic granny prayed the Rosary and believed OL Fatima had given the faithful a key to the defeat of the evils of communism that plagued her homeland. At the same time, some Latins never think about it at all.

Private devotions and private revelation - however public, a la Fatima and Lourdes, are just that, private.

Absolutely true.
I’ve posted extensively about that on other threads here. I was just curious about the contrasts between the Latin Church (my vantage point) and the EC Churches on this topic.

I am very interested to hear more about this Ukraine apparition, when the info becomes available…

 

[Pani_Rose]

Lest we forget in the Liturgy of St. James the Most Holy Theotokos is recognized.

**Hail, Mary, highly favoured: the Lord is with You; blessed are you among women, and blessed the fruit of your womb, for you bore the Saviour of our souls…

Commemorating our all-holy, pure, most glorious, blessed Lady, the God-Mother and Ever-Virgin Mary, and all the saints that have been well-pleasing to You since the world began, let us devote ourselves, and one another, and our whole life, to Christ our God**

 

[ASimpleSinner]

I am very interested to hear more about this Ukraine apparition, when the info becomes available…

It was Our Lady of Hrushiv - which was approved by the local bishops…

On May 12, 1914, two weeks before the First World War, twenty-two people in the village of Hrushiv who were mowing fields near the local church witnessed an apparition of the Virgin. The Virgin told them: “There will be a war. Russia will become a godless country and the Ukraine, as a nation, will suffer terribly for eighty years and will have to live through the world wars, but it will be free afterward.”

Not a lot has been written about it in English.

Now there have been more recent (it is claimed) apparitions in Hrushiv during the 1980s. That is another matter different from the 1914 approved apparition. I have no idea if the (1980s) claimed apparitions are approved, so until I can find any info on that we really can’t discuss them here as it is against CAF policy. I only mention it, in case you try to look it up - they are two different episodes.

Personally, I really don’t much concern myself with apparitions… At no point would a legitimate apparition tell us to do anything we don’t already KNOW we have to do (work, pray, pray, work!) so I just content myself to say the rosary and confess and commune frequently.

There is a guy at my parish very concerned about sharing different messages… “Did you know Our Lady warned us that we are in for some very tough times?”

“Well, no, I got the news from Tom Brokaw watching the news!”

Not trying to make fun of him - he is a pious soul - but behind every approved message he wants me to look at is the same message Her Son has been telling us for 20 centuries: “Repent & believe!”

 

[Diak]

SS-interesting info. I was not aware that any of the apparitions of Hoshiv or Hrushiv, two different places and apparitions sometimes confused, had been approved by the local bishops. Do you have more info, by chance?

While Zarvanytsia and Zhirovitsi have “apparitional” aspects, these places of pilgrimage are more focused on miracles attributed to intercession of the Mother of God through veneration of her images in those places.
FDRLB

 

[ASimpleSinner]

SS-interesting info. I was not aware that any of the apparitions of Hoshiv or Hrushiv, two different places and apparitions sometimes confused, had been approved by the local bishops. Do you have more info, by chance?

While Zarvanytsia and Zhirovitsi have “apparitional” aspects, these places of pilgrimage are more focused on miracles attributed to intercession of the Mother of God through veneration of her images in those places.
FDRLB

My translator is up at the Studite monastery in Canada for now… I don’t expect to hear from him for another week or so… And I am hoping to get his translation from Ukrainian sources posted on the blog in the next month…

 

[jj2011]

Zarvanitsa was an approved apparition site even before the reports of new apparitions in the eighties-- but in view of the rules here that’s as far as I can go.

 

[ronyodish]

First, I was wondering about the general Eastern Catholic view of devotion to the Blessed Mother.

Chaldean Catholic devotion to the Virgin Mary is primarily hymns sung to/about her during the liturgy. The hymns are generally done in a poetic-theological style in the tradition of St. Ephrem.

There is a late 19th century masterpiece of Chaldean Marian devotion known as the “Chaldean Epic of Mary”. Here is a section:

---

Fidelity to Mary

I shall inscribe my name as your servant
O’ sweet to my mouth
And if they shed my blood
I will never deny you O’ Mother

O’ Wonderful Mother
A City without a Gate
Even though unwed she had a Son
Even though a Virgin, she gave birth​

Here is another section:​

Mary is the Blessed Among All Women

Her beauty has no limit
And can never be comprehended
It is only known by the King of the Highest
Who took a body from her

From her He took a body and image
Behold She is there with Him
Like a curtain and a tent
His glory enveloped her​

God bless,

Rony

 

[Shoshana]

Can anyone direct me to the ‘reading’ of the Pokrova…what EVERY figure in the blessed icon is or who it is? Doing research…thanks!

 

[bpbasilphx]

Can anyone direct me to the ‘reading’ of the Pokrova…what EVERY figure in the blessed icon is or who it is? Doing research…thanks!

This is called the Protection or Patronage of the Theotokos in English. The Feast is on 1 October.

 

[GodIsGracious]

[deletia]
What I’m going to say next is not meant as a criticism, it is an observation. It seems that Western Catholics equate devotion to the Theotokos with the recitation of the Rosary. To the Eastern Church the Rosary is a private devotion that some practice and others don’t.

Yours in Christ,
Father Deacon Paul

[deletia mine]

Respectfully, growing up Roman Catholic, that’s not what I learned or how I took it. But I don’t doubt, and can certainly see, how some Latin Rites would use the Rosary as a way of devotion to Mary.

 

[Aramis]

[deletia mine]

Respectfully, growing up Roman Catholic, that’s not what I learned or how I took it. But I don’t doubt, and can certainly see, how some Latin Rites would use the Rosary as a way of devotion to Mary.

I grew up Roman, Dad’s a Roman deacon, and the rosary is the ONLY devotion that was common for the Theotokos.

 

[bpbasilphx]

According to the legend of the Protection of the Protection of the Theotokos (Pokrov), St. Andrew the Fool for Christ and his friend St. Epiphanius had a vision of the Theotokos praying in the Church of Blachernae, surrounded by different ranks of saints. Many icons, such as that by Arch. Kyprian of Jordanville identify the ranks. In the “Choir of Virgins” we find St. Mary of Egypt!

At the bottom of the Icon, dressed as a deacon, though he was actually just a reader, is St. Romanus the Melodist, who is also commemorated on 1 October.

 

[NoWings]

Not sure if anyone mentioned it, but there is an Eastern variation on the rosary. Saint Seraphim was supposed to have used it.

HAIL, O Virgin Theotokos, Mary, full of grace; the Lord is with thee. Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, for thou hast borne the Savior of our souls.

Apparently, there’s an entire prayer set for it.

 

[Diak]

There is the “Rule of St. Pachomius” which has various other names (Rule of St. Seraphim, Rule of the Mother of God, etc. etc.). Since Psalm 50 and the Creed are easily put to memory, all you need is a chotki.

Here is a version using a general Ukrainian Catholic English translation:

By the prayers of our holy fathers, O Lord Jesus Christ our God have mercy on us. Amen.

Glory be to You, our God, glory be to You.

Heavenly King, Advocate, Spirit of Truth, Who are everywhere present and fill all things, Treasury of blessings and Bestower of Life, come and dwell within us; cleanse of all that defiles us, and O Good One save our souls!

Holy God, Holy and Mighty, Holy and Immortal, have mercy on us. Thrice.

Glory be to the Father and to the Son and to the Holy Spirit, now and forever and ever. (some use “now and ever and for ages of ages”). Amen.

Trinity most holy, have mercy on us. Cleanse us of our sins, O Lord; pardon our transgressions, O Master; look upon our weaknesses and heal them, O Holy One, for the sake of Your name!

Lord, have mercy. (X3)

Glory be to the Father and to the Son and to the Holy Spirit, now and ever and for ages of ages. Amen.

Our Father, who art in heaven, hallowed be Thy Name. Thy Kingdom come, thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread, and forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us. And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil.

By the prayers of our holy fathers, O Lord Jesus Christ our God have mercy on us. Amen.

Lord have mercy (X12).

Glory be to the Father and to the Son and to the Holy Spirit, now and ever and for ages of ages. Amen.

Come, let us bow in worship before the King, our God!

Come, let us bow in worship before Christ, our King and God!

Come, let us bow in worship and fall down before the very Lord Jesus Christ, our King and God!

Psalm 50:
Have mercy on me O God, in the greatness of Your compassion; according to the multitude of Your mercies blot out my offence. Wash me thoroughly from my iniquity, and cleanse me from my sin. For I acknowledge my iniquity, and my sin is always before me. Against You alone have I sinned and done what is evil in Your sight, that You may be justified when You speak and win when You are judged. Behold, in wickedness I was conceived and in sin my mother bore me. For see, You have loved truth; You have shown me the hidden and secret things of Your wisdom. Sprinkle me with hyssop and I shall be clean. Wash me and I shall be whiter than snow. Make me hear joy and gladness; the bones that were crushed shall rejoice. Turn Your face from my sins and blot out all my lawlessness. Create in me a pure heart, O God, and renew a right spirit within me. Cast me not from Your presence, nor deprive me of Your Holy Spirit. Give me again the joy of Your salvation, and sustain me with Your sovereign Spirit. I will teach transgressors Your ways, and sinners will return to You. Deliver me from bloodguilt, O God, the God of my salvation, and my tongue shall ring out Your justice. Lord, You will open my lips, and my tongue shall ring out Your justice. Lord, You will open my lips, and my mouth shall declare Your praise. For if You had wanted sacrifice, I would have given it; You will not take pleasure in burnt offerings. A sacrifice to God is a contrite spirit. A humbled and contrite heart God will not spurn. Deal favorably, O Lord, with Sion in Your good pleasure and let the walls of Jerusalem be rebuilt. Then You will be well pleased with a sacrifice of justice, oblations and holocausts; then they will lay calves upon Your altar.

The Nicene-Constantinopolitan Creed:
I believe in one God, the Father, the Almighty,* maker of heaven and earth, of all that is seen and unseen.* I believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ, the only Son of God,* eternally begotten of the Father.* Light from Light, true God from true God,* begot¬ten, not made, one in being with the Father.* Through Him all things were made.* For us men and for our salvation He came down from heaven:* by the power of the Holy Spirit He was born of the Virgin Mary,* and became man.* For our sake He was crucified under Pontius Pilate;* He suffered, died, and was buried.* On the third day He rose again in fulfillment of the Scriptures;* He ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father.* He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead,* and His kingdom will have no end.* I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life,* who proceeds from the Father.* With the Father and the Son He is worshiped and glorified.* He has spoken through the Prophets.* I believe in one, holy, catholic, and apostolic Church.* I acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins.* I look for the resurrection of the dead,* and the life of the world to come. Amen.

Then: The Jesus Prayer (“Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner”) or a prayer to the Mother of God (“Most Holy Mother of God, save us” or “Rejoice, Mother of God…”) X 100.

*At the conclusion:*It is truly right to bless you, O God-bearing One, as the ever blessed and immaculate mother of our God. More honorable than the Cherubim, and by far more glorious than the Seraphim, ever a virgin you gave birth to God the Word. O True Mother of God, we magnify you!

Glory…now…
Lord, have mercy (X3). O Lord, bless.
O Lord, Jesus Christ, Son of God, by the prayers of Your most immaculate Mother, our holy and god-bearing fathers, and all the saints, have mercy on us and save us for You are good and love mankind.

 

[etomaria]

Eleutherius gave a fabulous summary of devotion to the Theotokos in the Eastern Churches; I’d just like to interject that this is something I really struggled with as a Latin - once I found the Byzantine Church everything seemed to ‘fall into place’ for me with respect to Mary.

This is wayyy after the fact, post-wise, but what do you mean? Ie, how so?

Maria :]