EC, EO, and RC

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Dave_in_Dallas

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So from what I’ve gathered so far is that the EC is very similar to the EO. The only knock against the EO is the primacy of Rome, but are there any other theological issues?

Are there difficulties in being EC and being in a large RC country (U.S.)… i.e. say I am listening to a Catholic radio station (meaning RC radio station) what types of items would I not agree with that I might hear being talked about?
 
Um, Dave… I found your question intriguing, but I couldn’t exactly tell you what you need to disagree with.🤷 {tongue in cheek} I’d hope you’d know it if you’d heard it. No pun intended.😃
 
So from what I’ve gathered so far is that the EC is very similar to the EO. The only knock against the EO is the primacy of Rome, but are there any other theological issues?

Are there difficulties in being EC and being in a large RC country (U.S.)… i.e. say I am listening to a Catholic radio station (meaning RC radio station) what types of items would I not agree with that I might hear being talked about?
Hi, Dave.

As I myself am still studying the fundamentals of theological differences between us and our Orthodox brethren as a newer member of the Catholic faith, I will point you to two sources to read that appear to note most of the fundamental differences.

Not too surprisingly, the differences are subtle enough that an Orthodox member would have only a few things to quibble about when, say, listening to Catholic Answers Live, EWTN or a local Catholic radio station.

The biggest theological differences between EO and RC (which probably should just be noted as “C” since the rites are more localized practices than theological differences) include:
  • The primacy of the Pope
  • The nature of original sin and its overall consequences on mankind
  • The theology of purgatory
  • The type of bread used in the Holy Eucharist
  • The dogma of immaculate conception of the Blessed Virgin
Here is a simple Q&A website from a secular source that’s balanced in its observation, and here is the Catholic.com tract on the Eastern Orthodox churches. Hope this helps!
 
So from what I’ve gathered so far is that the EC is very similar to the EO. The only knock against the EO is the primacy of Rome, but are there any other theological issues?

Are there difficulties in being EC and being in a large RC country (U.S.)… i.e. say I am listening to a Catholic radio station (meaning RC radio station) what types of items would I not agree with that I might hear being talked about?
You are correct in saying that the Eastern Catholic Churches are very similar to the Eastern Orthodox Churches. In fact, at the original (re)unions that took place between the Church of Rome and the Church of Kiev in the mid 16th Century, one of the conditions that the Church of Kiev placed on the Church of Rome was that she (Kiev) would maintain all her theological, liturgical and disciplinary differences. One could argue, therefore, that the Eastern Catholic Churches are identical to their Orthodox Mother Churches, minus the fact of being in communion with Rome. This hasn’t always worked out in practice, mainly due to ignorance among all of the particular churches (Roman Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, and even Eastern Catholic). But the official policy is that the Eastern Catholic Churches are to be “Orthodox” in all things, save that they are in communion with Rome.

There are many difficulties in being an Eastern Catholic in a predominantly Roman Catholic/Western Christian country. The main difficulty is ignorance. Most Roman Catholics equate the word “Catholic” with the word “Roman.” When they hear of another tradition within the Catholic Communion they think primarily in terms of liturgical tradition, thus giving rise to the idea that Eastern Catholics are Roman Catholics who “celebrate Mass funny.” However, the Roman Catholic Church is not the fullness of the Catholic Church. The fullness of the Catholic Church consists in the 20+ particular churches (Roman, Ruthenian, Assyrian, Melkite, Coptic, Armenian, Ukrainian, etc.) being in communion with each other. Eastern Catholics have their own identity that is very different, and often seemingly contradictory, to the Latin identity, especially that identity stemming from Scholasticism and the Post-Reformation response. Eastern Catholics are not Thomistic, Scholastic, Bonaventurian, Tridentine, etc. They have their own Fathers and theologians. It is just as wrong to force Eastern Catholics to “dogmatize” Thomistic principles as it is for Eastern Catholics to force Roman Catholics to “dogmatize” the teaching of St. Gregory Palamas. I’m sorry, I realize that I’ve gone off on a bit of a tangent. It’s early in the morning and I tend to be a bit verbose at this time of day. 😃

I do think that what was said above is necessary to understand what I’m about to say now. The dogma of the Immaculate Conception is a very sensitive issue among Eastern Catholics, just as it is among Eastern Orthodox. Why? Because it is steeped in Latin theology and thus foreign to the Eastern Catholic tradition. Does that mean that Eastern Christians (Catholic and Orthodox) believe Mary sinned? No. We do call her “all holy,” “most pure,” “most highly blessed,” “spotless,” etc. But our conception of “original sin” and the fall is very different from the typical Latin conception. However, it’s interesting to note that with the increase in biblical scholarship in the last century, the Latin conception of original sin is starting to more and more reflect the Greek/Byzantine perception of it. A good example would be Dr. Scott Hahn’s “First Comes Love” as well as his “Father Who Keeps His Promises.” 👍 I think any Orthodox Christian could read these books and truly say, “He’s one of us.”
 
Hi, Dave.

As I myself am still studying the fundamentals of theological differences between us and our Orthodox brethren as a newer member of the Catholic faith, I will point you to two sources to read that appear to note most of the fundamental differences.

Not too surprisingly, the differences are subtle enough that an Orthodox member would have only a few things to quibble about when, say, listening to Catholic Answers Live, EWTN or a local Catholic radio station.

The biggest theological differences between EO and RC (which probably should just be noted as “C” since the rites are more localized practices than theological differences) include:
  • The primacy of the Pope
  • The nature of original sin and its overall consequences on mankind
  • The theology of purgatory
  • The type of bread used in the Holy Eucharist
  • The dogma of immaculate conception of the Blessed Virgin
Here is a simple Q&A website from a secular source that’s balanced in its observation, and here is the Catholic.com tract on the Eastern Orthodox churches. Hope this helps!
I would be very careful with the above highlighted statement. As I said in my previous post, Eastern Catholics are not Roman Catholics who celebrate Mass funny. The original conditions of the Union of Brest, which brought the Church of Kiev and the Church of Rome back into communion with each other, stipulated that the Church of Kiev would maintain all her theological, liturgical and disciplinary differences. The above highlighted statement is exemplary of the typical Roman attitude that to be Catholic is to be Roman (it also demonstrates why the Orthodox are very hesitant to (re)establish communion with Rome). This is simply not true.

As far as the list of differences is concerned; Metropolitan Kallistos (Ware) of Diokleia (a Greek Orthodox bishop in Oxford, England) has stated that the only major obstacle to union between the Orthodox and the Catholics is the way in which the two Churches conceive of the primacy of the bishop of Rome (which I won’t get into because it’s been hashed out over and over on these forums). All the other differences between East and West are really differences in theological opinion and speculation (theologoumena [not sure on the spelling]). I suggest you read his “Orthodox Church” and watch his address to the Orientale Lumen VIII conference entitled “Orthodox-Catholic Dialogue: What’s Our Bottom Line?” 👍

ICXC + NIKA,
Phillip
 
\ As I said in my previous post, Eastern Catholics are not Roman Catholics who celebrate Mass funny.\

**I was about to use that very expression, Philip! You took the words right out of my mouth! And I see I’m not the only fan of the Zoghby initiative here on these boards. Have you read his book WE ARE ALL SCHISMATICS?

Too many people think that the Roman Church is the default mode for Catholicism.

Too many more Roman Catholics are totally UNAWARE of the existence of the Eastern Catholic Churches, and are quite surprised to hear of them.

Too many other supposed Traditionalist Catholics think Eastern Catholics should either get to the back of the bus, or else become “real” Catholics.**
 
\ As I said in my previous post, Eastern Catholics are not Roman Catholics who celebrate Mass funny.\

**I was about to use that very expression, Philip! You took the words right out of my mouth! And I see I’m not the only fan of the Zoghby initiative here on these boards. Have you read his book WE ARE ALL SCHISMATICS?

Too many people think that the Roman Church is the default mode for Catholicism.

Too many more Roman Catholics are totally UNAWARE of the existence of the Eastern Catholic Churches, and are quite surprised to hear of them.

Too many other supposed Traditionalist Catholics think Eastern Catholics should either get to the back of the bus, or else become “real” Catholics.**
Hello!

I have indeed read “We Are All Schismatics,” as well as his “Voice from the Byzantine East,” and “Ecumenical Reflections” (put out by the company that I work for). 😃 I need to go through and read them all again, but unfortunately the time constraints of being a full time husband, father, student, and employee won’t allow me to return to Kyr Zoghby for some time yet. His writings have been by far one of the key turning points for my intellectual life. I also think that his model of union has been the only one that’s even come close to “working.” If you enjoy his work I also highly recommend Cyril Korolevsky’s “Uniatism” (also put out by Eastern Christian Publications).

I agree on all three of your “too many” points. My mother, of blessed memory, was somewhat horrified when I first informed her that I was seriously considering becoming Eastern Catholic. Growing up in the greater Cincinnati area where the population is predominantly German-Irish one doesn’t have much exposure to Eastern Christendom except for the occasional reference to “those schismatics.” I humbly admit that I once carried the same attitude and I ask for the pardon of our Orthodox and Eastern Catholic brethren. :o But no more. My wife and I have found our true home among the Melkites. We love the parish life, the liturgies, the theology… in short everything!

As far as the self-styled traditionalists go, I have several close friends who consider themselves such. I’ve learned that its often best simply to have the “courage to be ourselves,” as Archbishop Joseph Tawil said. This is sometimes the best witness possible. I’ve also found that many Roman Catholics are surprisingly open to and genuinely interested in Eastern Christendom. 👍

ICXC + NIKA,
Phillip
 
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