Ecclesia Translation

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Could someone provide sound teaching on the translation of Ecclesia to Church in English. Where as well is Ecclesia displaying the form of an institution directly in Scripture. It’s for research thank you for the help.
 
It’s not going to be an easy task. In the Septuagint, for example, ekklesia is the standard translation of the Hebrew word qahal, which means assembly or congregation. As far as I can see, it never designates an institution.
https://biblehub.com/hebrew/6951.htm
 
I hear you lol. But off the top of my head Scripture says where two or more are gathered in my name there I am. Matthew 18:20

Then…

Matthew 18:15-17
If your brother sins [against you], go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have won over your brother. If he does not listen, take one or two others along with you, so that ‘every fact may be established on the testimony of two or three witnesses. If he refuses to listen to them, tell the church. If he refuses to listen even to the church, then treat him as you would a Gentile or a tax collector

Ecclesia simply means called out ones or perhaps an assembly. But the above certainly shows that the minimum number of believers necessary for Christ to be present among them were gathered in testimony against the sinning brother. That would already be the Ecclesia. So why does scripture say to take them to the Church?

I’d go really thoroughly into Acts 15 as well where we see a hierarchy of authority already present at the Jerusalem council… but anyways I appreciate your (name removed by moderator)ut and I look forward to reading the article.

Thank you.
 
catholicray said:
So why does scripture say to take them to the Church?
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I think you need to start with Christ giving Peter the keys to the Kingdom of Heaven and giving the Church the ability to bind and loose, and Christ telling Peter to feed his sheep, and Paul telling Timothy that the Church is of the Living God, and the pillar and bulwark of truth.
 
I utterly agree. Would you agree that the context of Matthew 16:18-20 points to the word Church, being an institution, especially considering the passage about the keys?
 
The word ‘Church’ originates from the the Jewish people of God traditions, as mentioned earlier. It’s important to remember the Christ fulfills the Old Testament and therefore this Church isn’t a complete deviation from the old. Matthew 16:18-20 certainly points to the origin of the Church and its heirarchy but it isn’t the only one… there are so many more verses, too. We have the ministerial priesthood and the sacraments which need to be taken into account.

The Church is not just a human institution, or gathering of people, it’s of divine origin and is a beautiful gift from God. This is why the Church is sometimes called Holy Mother Church as she gives us new life in baptism, helps us grow with the divine word, nourishes us with the Eucharist. She cares for us and bandages our wounds when we fall with Penance and when we are in need with the Anointing of the Sick. She also blesses us with vocations and even at the end of our life, with the funeral rites, we are reminded of the promise of baptism as he calls us ‘out of darkness into his wonderful light’ and she gives us hope as she commends us to God’s mercy, as Christ conquered death. It’s hard to just p(name removed by moderator)oint one bible verse as we have to look at the whole to understand its true meaning.
 
catholicray said:
I’d go really thoroughly into Acts 15 as well where we see a hierarchy of authority already present at the Jerusalem council… but anyways I appreciate your (name removed by moderator)ut and I look forward to reading the article.
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Acts 15 clearly shows, as you say, that there was a structured organization in place. First Peter presents his case and then James pronounces his verdict.

In your OP, however, you seemed to be asking a question about something else, namely the meaning of the Greek word ekklesia as found in Scripture. The two questions are closely related, of course, but they’re not the same question.
 
catholicray said:
Could someone provide sound teaching on the translation of Ecclesia to Church in English. Where as well is Ecclesia displaying the form of an institution directly in Scripture. It’s for research thank you for the help.
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Rather than try to read the English term, back into the Greek, you might have an easier time researching the etymology of the English word Church and how that was derived. My suspicion (not having done the work) is that it be far more illuminating.
 
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catholicray said:
Could someone provide sound teaching on the translation of Ecclesia to Church in English. Where as well is Ecclesia displaying the form of an institution directly in Scripture. It’s for research thank you for the help.
Click to expand...
I don’t think you need to go any further than Matt 16:18-19.

First, Jesus says:

You are Peter and on this Rock I will build my Ecclesia.

First, Jesus is “constructing” something. He isn’t just calling
people out willy-nilly. The illustration is clearly one with which
most people are familiar. He is building something.

Then He says:

And the gates of hell will not prevail against it.

So, what is He building that can wage a war? It can assail a wall.
He’s building an army. An army is an institution with a clear
organization. And as head of His army, He has appointed St. Peter.
as the Leader of this Army.

Then Jesus says:

I will give you the keys to the Kingdom of heaven, and what
you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven and what you
loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.

At this point, we have access to Isaiah 22:22, where God gives
Eliakim a key which opens and closes the Temple of God.

So, we deduce that Jesus’ Army not only assails
the gates of hell, but it also opens and closes
the gates of heaven and determines who gets in or
is left out.

What do you think?
 
Ecclesia comes from the meetings in Athens, where citizens were “called out” from their homes to meetings as the governors of Athens.

It was adopted by Greek speaking Jews to refer to their synagogues, possibly because they were congregations without royal or priestly leaders like the Athenian body.

From there it passed into Christian use, with the call recognized more as from God then from yelling in the street.

Church is a completely different word, rooted in Kyrios, Lord in Greek. Lord could mean God, sir, mister or lord. Ways of addressing Jesus as divine and as human. The community was the Lord’s gathering. Kyriak to kirk to church.

That is some of what I remember, some of it could be wrong. Some of it might be right, helpful even.
 
English is kind of an outlier when it comes to certain terms (see, for example, what most of the rest of the Catholic world calls Lent or Easter). If you want to look at words as the basis of the Church’s theology, we should look to the Latin and Greek, not English. Neither the Latin nor Greek churches see any dichotomy between an assembly and an institution in the word “ecclesia” which they continue to use.
 
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