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myfavoritmartin
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Whenever YOU read them you should do this…
Why look at a Cath web site it is not unbiased.
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Why look at a Cath web site it is not unbiased.
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E.E.N.S
Guest
Let’s see if Jerome really thought that Scripture is sufficient:
Don’t you know that the laying on of hands after baptism and then the invocation of the Holy Sirit is a custom of the Churches? Do you demand Scripture proof? You may find it in the Acts of the Apostles. And even if it did not rest on the authority of Scripture the consensus of the whole world in this respect would have the force of a command. For many other observances of the Churches, which are do to tradition, have acquired the authority of the written law (The Dialogue Against the Luciferians 8 A.D. 382]).
I would say that the quote you took from him were out of context.
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E.E.N.S
Guest
Indeed it does. What has that got to do with sufficiency?
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E.E.N.S
Guest
Side note: Excessively large font is uneccessary. Please refrain.
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E.E.N.S
Guest
Just incase you missed the main focus of the post.
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Penitus
Guest
I DID do this last year. This is the reason why I converted to Catholicism. It is so absolutely clear that there was no true Church but the Catholic Church for centuries upon centuries of Christianity.
Not only are Catholicism’s beliefs completely scriptural, but they are historical as well.
You cannot take the follow Church Father’s beliefs out of context. Such would be impossible:
Asking Mary and the Saints to pray for you
Apostolc Succession
The reality of Bishops, Priests, and Deacons
The Real Presence of Jesus in the Eucharist
Confession to a Bishop/Priest
etc.
If you want to believe the Catholic Church overtook real Christianity, which went underground sometime around the late 90’s or early 100’s, fine, but don’t take the Church Fathers out of conext. They were undeniably Roman Catholic, and often used that very term since the early 100’s.
Praise God for his ONE, HOLY, CATHOLIC, and APOSTOLIC Church!
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E.E.N.S
Guest
Amen! I did the same thing in 1999-2000, and came into the Church in 2001.
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myfavoritmartin
Guest
Side note bright fonts arent necessary.Just incase you missed the main focus of the post.
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HailMary
Guest
myfavoritmartin:
you get through this book:
Scripture Alone?: 21 Reasons to Reject Sola Scriptura
and I’m confident you will understand why SS is fanciful.
you get through this book:
Scripture Alone?: 21 Reasons to Reject Sola Scriptura
and I’m confident you will understand why SS is fanciful.
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Penitus
Guest
Actually, the exact contents of that very book is located here:
geocities.com/militantis/solascriptura.html
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myfavoritmartin
Guest
Confessions book 6
Then Thou, O Lord, little by little with most tender and most merciful hand, touching and composing my heart, didst persuade me- considering what innumerable things I believed, which I saw not, nor was present while they were done, as so many things in secular history, so many reports of places and of cities, which I had not seen; so many of friends, so many of physicians, so many continually of other men, which unless we should believe, we should do nothing at all in this life; lastly, with how unshaken an assurance I believed of what parents I was born, which I could not know, had I not believed upon hearsay -considering all this, Thou didst persuade me, that not they who believed Thy Books (which Thou hast established in so great authority among almost all nations), but they who believed them not, were to be blamed; and that they were not to be heard, who should say to me, “How knowest thou those Scriptures to have been imparted unto mankind by the Spirit of the one true and most true God?” For this very thing was of all most to be believed, since no contentiousness of blasphemous questionings, of all that multitude which I had read in the self-contradicting philosophers, could wring this belief from me, “That Thou art” whatsoever Thou wert (what I knew not), and “That the government of human things belongs to Thee.”
Then Thou, O Lord, little by little with most tender and most merciful hand, touching and composing my heart, didst persuade me- considering what innumerable things I believed, which I saw not, nor was present while they were done, as so many things in secular history, so many reports of places and of cities, which I had not seen; so many of friends, so many of physicians, so many continually of other men, which unless we should believe, we should do nothing at all in this life; lastly, with how unshaken an assurance I believed of what parents I was born, which I could not know, had I not believed upon hearsay -considering all this, Thou didst persuade me, that not they who believed Thy Books (which Thou hast established in so great authority among almost all nations), but they who believed them not, were to be blamed; and that they were not to be heard, who should say to me, “How knowest thou those Scriptures to have been imparted unto mankind by the Spirit of the one true and most true God?” For this very thing was of all most to be believed, since no contentiousness of blasphemous questionings, of all that multitude which I had read in the self-contradicting philosophers, could wring this belief from me, “That Thou art” whatsoever Thou wert (what I knew not), and “That the government of human things belongs to Thee.”
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myfavoritmartin
Guest
Are you two baiting me?
I’ll make no disparinging remarks, those links have nothing to do with this thread…
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E.E.N.S
Guest
Right, it was the Holy Spirit working through the Church, (as the author of this quote you just posted states elsewhere as well.
)Then why do you use them?Side note bright fonts arent necessary.
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Penitus
Guest
Again, you’re taking this out of context and looking too much into this. Augustine studied Philosopher until he rejected the Pagan philosophies and embraces Christianity after randomly reading some passages from the Paul’s letter to the Romans.
Here, Augustine shows us that the books are authoritative, but he does not state that the scripture was the ONLY authority. Augustine goes onto say how people should believe in Scripture, which has been given to us by God Himself. Again, there is nothing here contrary to what Catholics believe and have always been taught.
So was Augustine Catholic? Let’s see:
“”[T]he custom [of not rebaptizing converts] . . . may be supposed to have had its origin in apostolic tradition, just as there are many things which are observed by the whole Church, and therefore are fairly held to have been enjoined by the apostles, which yet are not mentioned in their writings" ~Augustine, On Baptism, Against the Donatists, ca. 400 A.D.
“But in regard to those observances which we carefully attend and which the whole world keeps, and which derive not from Scripture but from Tradition, we are given to understand that they are recommended and ordained to be kept, either by the apostles themselves or by plenary [ecumenical] councils, the authority of which is quite vital in the Church” ~Augustine, Letetr to Januarius, ca. 400 A.D.
So what myfavoritmartin, was Augustine confused??? If you want, I can continue to post dozens of quotes in context that prove that Augustine was thoroughly Catholic in every sense of the word.
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myfavoritmartin
Guest
Pen,
ever read Auggies retractions?
ever read Auggies retractions?
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Penitus
Guest
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myfavoritmartin
Guest
Sure I have, my point is this… you guys use ECF’s to make a case and that is dishonest because in most cases you take their words out of context, an argument can be made that some of their theology is closer to protestant than Roman Cath.
That in mind you should read through my post again
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HailMary
Guest
I don’t think your arguments won the reasoned assent of anyone in this forum.
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myfavoritmartin
Guest
If you wish we can move to another topic with the ECF’s, as their are many who know auggie better than I.
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Penitus
Guest
Have you ever read the Church Fathers or are you just copying and pasting from anti-Catholic websites? Becuase if you did read the Church Fathers, you can overwhemlingly see they are Catholic, period.
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