Economia?

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I am cutting and pasting a post I just made elsewhere on this board below. The reason is I wonder why birth control doesn’t fall under the issue of economia. What does the Eastern Catholic Church teach regarding this? We used to be Orthodox and I understood the use of economia in this regard that birth control is wrong but that God in his mercy and compassion allows …whatever you call it. Just like lessening of fasting rules or fighting in wars where taking a life is wrong but there are exceptions like war or self defense. Bah. I am just sick of it. The priest below is our Byzantine priest who said this to my husband. It just depresses me and makes me feel hopeless.

<<It feels hopeless. It is the exception rather than the rule that my husband and I make it through a cycle without doing something illicit. I loathe and despite NFP. Pregnancy is just NOT a good option for serious physical and mental reasons. However I sometimes just think maybe we should just give up and that way we don’t sin and just be providentialists since we just can’t do it. But then it sounds so stupid to think that having a ton of kids I can handle, being horribly ill and risking my health in pregnancy is a better option.

Theoretically we ought to be able to abstain. No one forces us to do anything. But it’s always easier said than done. Everyone sins in areas that they don’t want to and keep falling over and over. I am just sick of this though. I think if I actually felt/believe that birth control was always wrong in every circumstance it might be easier. But we don’t. We understand that is what the Church teaches but it seems very wrong. It only seems right physically, mentally and spiritually to “be together”.

I just feel like a total failure and that we have no hope of not sinning in this area. It doesn’t help that the last time we went to confession our priest who has otherwise always seemed very orthodox told my husband that he can’t say we should use birth control…but… Get the jist? That he just really didn’t see how the alternative was better in some circumstances.>>
 
Eastern Catholics stand in line with Catholic thinking as enumerated in Humanae Vitae. We don’t have a qualitative difference as a result of some sort of juridical loophole by being enrolled in Eastern Catholic Churches… It is moral teaching.

We really can’t get into a discussion about what was said between your husband and a priest under the seal of confession…

Send me a private message and I can direct you to some resources that might be of some help.
 
sosickofit,

I can’t offer too much besides my sympathy. 😦 But I noticed that there’s a thread (now locked) called Miserable with NFP!. It’s long thread – 349 posts, of which I’ve only read a few – so I can’t really vouch for it. But it could help.

Blessings,
Peter.
 
How exactly does economia work?
On the face of it, it sounds like allowing sin.

One thing I have learned, in reading many posts in many different forums, is that this is an extremely difficult teaching of the Church, and many many couples find that this is an extreme burden put on them. And i don’t mean the one’s who are too lazy to bother with informing their conscience. Even couples who desire to do the right thing and be faithful to the teachings of the Church find this burden extremely great.

I don’t think i’ve ever really seen this great burden addressed anywhere in the Church. As the original poster said, easier said than done.

I honestly wonder if it was easier back in the day in past centuries when artificial contraception (like the pill) was never really even an option. I wish there was a way to know whether or not the difficulty that married couples face has a lot to do with the modern attitudes about sexuality that have formed a lot of the way we look at things nowadays.
 
God is With Us!

I am a revert who came back into the Byzantine Catholic Church after leading a very sinful life. What really transformed me was coming to understand the sacramental meaning of being Crowned in Holy Matrimony and the teaching of John Paul II on the Theology of the Body. My husband and I have also had our share of fertility problems, so I can really empathize with how these issues can cause stress in a relationship.

Oikonomia has several layers of meaning. One of them means making pastoral decisions based on a particular situation, like fasting. Or, for example, our pastor used to take a panachida on Sundays, even though services for the dead should not be taken on the day of Resurrection. He made this decision because so many of our families had to travel to get to liturgy and would not be able to come back during the week, hence, leaving the dead unprayed for by the community. However, oikonomia should never be used to excuse something that is evil, according to the mind of the Church.

Oikonomia can also be understood as the “economy of signs” in the liturgical life of the Church.

The most basic “sign” is the domestic church and the relationship between man and woman.
We were created male and female for two reasons: to reflect the love of the Most Holy Trinity as a community of persons joined in faithful, life-creating, eternal union and to reveal the unity of Christ and His Bride, the Church. This has been the understanding as far back as the early Church Fathers.

So here is a question: if using artificial contraception is not a sin, which some people seem to be asserting, that means that it must tell the truth about who we are as human beings made in the image and likeness of God and the union of Christ and His Church. Can you give an example of how Christ “contracepts” in relation to His Bride? What, exactly, has He held back from us?

In Christ,
Through the Theotokos,

Marya
 
maryatipton said:
However, oikonomia should never be used to excuse something that is evil, according to the mind of the Church.
Click to expand...
I would assume that that is true. However, then how does one reconcile oikonomia with artificial contraception.
Oikonomia can also be understood as the “economy of signs” in the liturgical life of the Church.
Click to expand...
Do you know where I can read more to learn about this?
Can you give an example of how Christ “contracepts” in relation to His Bride? What, exactly, has He held back from us?
Click to expand...
There is none. And this is the very reason, from the theology of the body, that contraception is not consistent with Catholicism.
For me, this is a far more compelling reason than any argument made from natural law (although the two are related).

But i think the problem isn’t the teaching per se. It is the real difficulty that some people have in trying to observe it. Some couples are forced into a decision of an undeterminate long period of continence. This is a very difficult burde for some, and I have heard many people say that this is too great a burden. It would be one thing if this were simply a case of a few people, but this is the general consensus, so my point has always been that the Church needs an effective way to help these people navigate through this in a way that is more than saying “offer it up”.

Those words are true enough, but when the rubber meets the road, it can be an extremely difficult path for many. And i don’t hink the Church addresses that difficult path in a very pastoral way right now.
 
On “Economy of Signs” from Letter of John Paul II to women:

“Furthermore, precisely in line with this economy of signs, even if apart from the sacramental sphere, there is great significance to that “womanhood” which was lived in such a sublime way by Mary. In fact, there is present in the “womanhood” of a woman who believes, and especially in a woman who is “consecrated”, a kind of inherent “prophecy” (cf. Mulieris Dignitatem, 29), a powerfully evocative symbolism, a highly significant “iconic character”, which finds its full realization in Mary and which also aptly expresses the very essence of the Church as a community consecrated with the integrity of a “virgin” heart to become the “bride” of Christ and “mother” of believers. When we consider the “iconic” complementarity of male and female roles, two of the Church’s essential dimensions are seen in a clearer light: the “Marian” principle and the Apostolic- Petrine principle (cf. ibid., 27).”

Another question - - and I don’t mean to be flippant. I have had my own adjustments to make - - if NFP is proving to be such a great burden, why are so many people closed off from having children? How has barreness become the new virtue?
 
One more thing: I believe that if people fully understood how many souls they can save by “offering up” their sufferings, there wouldn’t be any question. How much healing is brought to the world when we unite our sufferings to the Cross of Christ!
 
How exactly does economia work?
On the face of it, it sounds like allowing sin.

**No.

Oikonomia (sometimes Anglicized as “economy”) means, among the Orthodox, that if a point of church law is getting in the way of someone’s salvation, the law clearly does not apply in this case. It’s only for the bishop to determine.

An example is the mass ordinations done by Metropolitan Philip when receiving the erstwhile Evangelical Orthodox Church into the fullness of Orthodoxy. The rubrics of the service are very clear: only ONE deacon and ONE priest can be ordained at any Divine Liturgy.

However, this would have put undue hardhsip upon parishes and left them without the Holy Mysteries for months, if not years, at a time.

Therefore, these rubrics could not be applied strictly.

Another example of pastoral oikonomia are the fasting rules. Actually, in Orthodoxy, they are very strict and austere. Over half of the year requires fasting (almost every Wednesday and Friday, Advent, Lent, Apostle’s Fast, and the Lady Fast, as well as Holy Cross and Beheading of St. John the Baptist).

It is also recognized that those with medical conditions (such as diabetes or pregnancy) are not required to observe the fasts as strictly as those in good health. For this, you discuss the matter with your spiritual father to see what the will of God for YOU is.

None of the Holy Canons or liturgical laws are ends in themselves. The only end in itself is the salvation of souls. **
 
Glory to Jesus Christ!

I love the subject of oikonomia. It’s something I’ve been pondering in my heart for a long time, especially how it relates to Theology of the Body and Catholic-Orthodox relations. I’m delighted to have the blessing of sharing ideas with you.

Here is something from the CCC:

236 The Fathers of the Church distinguish between theology (theologia) and economy (oikonomia). “Theology” refers to the mystery of God’s inmost life within the Blessed Trinity and “economy” to all the works by which God reveals himself and communicates his life. Through the oikonomia the theologia is revealed to us; but conversely, the theologia illuminates the whole oikonomia. God’s works reveal who he is in himself; the mystery of his inmost being enlightens our understanding of all his works. So it is, analogously, among human persons. A person discloses himself in his actions, and the better we know a person, the better we understand his actions.
 
Hello,

I was just wondering if you have only used one method of NFP. There are several methods and programs out there, and yes, some are better than others. Of course, I don’t know what you loave about it, so another method may be of no help. Just an idea. I haven’t much experience with NFP. I have a friend who is a practitioner and teaches the Creighton Model, so I have learned a lot form her.

God Bless,
R.

P.S. I will try and remember to ask her about about Ekonomia.
 
sosickofit said:
Pregnancy is just NOT a good option for serious physical and mental reasons.
Click to expand...
SOS, as you think about what people are saying regarding oikonomia, please don’t despair that your circumstances will never change. Maybe your situation really is beyond repair, but many people are hopeless because their doctor says so or they’ve never heard any different. The root cause of your difficulties might have a solution, spiritual or physical. Don’t give up the search!
 
Dear brother bpbasilphx,
bpbasilphx said:
Oikonomia (sometimes Anglicized as “economy”) means, among the Orthodox, that if a point of church law is getting in the way of someone’s salvation, the law clearly does not apply in this case. It’s only for the bishop to determine.
Click to expand...
I would disagree with you strongly here. Oikonomia does not say “the law clearly does not apply in this case.” Rather, it says, “the law still applies, but the punishment for its transgression will be lessened or removed in this special case.”
An example is the mass ordinations done by Metropolitan Philip when receiving the erstwhile Evangelical Orthodox Church into the fullness of Orthodoxy. The rubrics of the service are very clear: only ONE deacon and ONE priest can be ordained at any Divine Liturgy.

However, this would have put undue hardhsip upon parishes and left them without the Holy Mysteries for months, if not years, at a time.

Therefore, these rubrics could not be applied strictly.

Another example of pastoral oikonomia are the fasting rules. Actually, in Orthodoxy, they are very strict and austere. Over half of the year requires fasting (almost every Wednesday and Friday, Advent, Lent, Apostle’s Fast, and the Lady Fast, as well as Holy Cross and Beheading of St. John the Baptist).

It is also recognized that those with medical conditions (such as diabetes or pregnancy) are not required to observe the fasts as strictly as those in good health. For this, you discuss the matter with your spiritual father to see what the will of God for YOU is.

None of the Holy Canons or liturgical laws are ends in themselves. The only end in itself is the salvation of souls.
Click to expand...
These are good examples of oikonomia, but they don’t seem to match your definition, because none of these examples has to do with a matter of SALVIFIC importance.

Blessings,
Marduk
 
Dear sosickofit,
sosickofit said:
I am cutting and pasting a post I just made elsewhere on this board below. The reason is I wonder why birth control doesn’t fall under the issue of economia. What does the Eastern Catholic Church teach regarding this? We used to be Orthodox and I understood the use of economia in this regard that birth control is wrong but that God in his mercy and compassion allows …whatever you call it. Just like lessening of fasting rules or fighting in wars where taking a life is wrong but there are exceptions like war or self defense. Bah. I am just sick of it. The priest below is our Byzantine priest who said this to my husband. It just depresses me and makes me feel hopeless.

<<It feels hopeless. It is the exception rather than the rule that my husband and I make it through a cycle without doing something illicit. I loathe and despite NFP. Pregnancy is just NOT a good option for serious physical and mental reasons. However I sometimes just think maybe we should just give up and that way we don’t sin and just be providentialists since we just can’t do it. But then it sounds so stupid to think that having a ton of kids I can handle, being horribly ill and risking my health in pregnancy is a better option.

Theoretically we ought to be able to abstain. No one forces us to do anything. But it’s always easier said than done. Everyone sins in areas that they don’t want to and keep falling over and over. I am just sick of this though. I think if I actually felt/believe that birth control was always wrong in every circumstance it might be easier. But we don’t. We understand that is what the Church teaches but it seems very wrong. It only seems right physically, mentally and spiritually to “be together”.

I just feel like a total failure and that we have no hope of not sinning in this area. It doesn’t help that the last time we went to confession our priest who has otherwise always seemed very orthodox told my husband that he can’t say we should use birth control…but… Get the jist? That he just really didn’t see how the alternative was better in some circumstances.>>
Click to expand...
I commend your post. That you are not blaming the laws of God or the Church for your emotional situation is a good thing in and of itself. Your healing is right around the corner. It is in the Sacrament of confession. I go to confession weekly, which is normative among the Orthodox, and I know that the Latin Church also encourages weekly confession, and even MORE frequently if it is needed.

We will fail, THAT is a given. Certainly, you cannot be a greater sinner than ME! But that is why Jesus died on the cross, for sinner you and sinner me. Appreciate the gift and avail yourself of the Sacrament as often as necessary.

This does not mean we should look at confession as a free pass to sin. Confession must involve a true change of heart to not sin again. But when the temptations come and we do manage to fall, be assured you have the medicine for your conscience already available at your local Catholic Church.

I do not agree with the Eastern Orthodox teaching of economy (or oikonomia), if brother Bpbasilphx’s response above is any indication. But I know that the principle of economy as I was taught in Oriental Orthodoxy does NOT in any way make a sin no longer a sin. It simply ameliorates the punishment normally attached to that sin. Economy or not, you will still have to avail yourself of confession for the sin you have committed.

In the end, the principle of economy will not help your situation (for certainly oikonomia is NOT some sort of freebee). The only thing that will do so is to recognize that:
  1. our weakness is simply a part of us,
  2. God recognizes this weakness and has/is willing to meet us halfway through our Mediator Jesus Christ.
  3. Avail yourself of the grace of Jesus Christ with humility in the Sacrament of Confession.
 
Dear brother bpbasilphx,
I would disagree with you strongly here. Oikonomia does not say “the law clearly does not apply in this case.” Rather, it says, “the law still applies, but the punishment for its transgression will be lessened or removed in this special case.”
Click to expand...
May I ask where you obtained your definition of oikonomia? It does not seem to fit the definitions of the early Fathers of the Church. A sin is a sin is a sin. When divine law says “this is a sin,” that cannot be changed. It is not as if a sin is only a sin for certain people under certain conditions. THAT is not what oikonomia is about.

What you are proposing is NOT the Eastern teaching of oikonomia, but the Latin and Alexandrian teaching on invincible ignorance - which indeed states that for people under certain circumstances. a sin can no longer be regarded as sinful.

I know there are some things within Eastern Orthodoxy that used to be regarded as sinful, but are no longer regarded as such. But this does not seem to justify changing the definition of oikonomia as understood by the Fathers.

Blessings,
Marduk
 
Back when there were more Eastern Orthodox posting here, it was often said that one of the practices for receiving Catholics into the Orthodox Church was through economy. And they desrcibed economy as the Holy Spirit providing for what may be lacking in Catholic sacraments. Father Ambrose also said that if reunion were to ever happen, that the question of the validity of the priesthood of Catholic priests would be handlede very delicately through economy, so that there wouldn’t be re-ordinations.

How does this fit into what we have been talking about?
 
Dear brother Dan,
Dan-Man916 said:
Back when there were more Eastern Orthodox posting here, it was often said that one of the practices for receiving Catholics into the Orthodox Church was through economy. And they desrcibed economy as the Holy Spirit providing for what may be lacking in Catholic sacraments. Father Ambrose also said that if reunion were to ever happen, that the question of the validity of the priesthood of Catholic priests would be handlede very delicately through economy, so that there wouldn’t be re-ordinations.

How does this fit into what we have been talking about?
Click to expand...
This is a great question. The short answer is I don’t know what the EO are thinking.

There is absolutely no precedent in the early Church for categorizing what the EO do under “economy.” The early Church indeed accepted the validity of the Sacraments of some that were not in communion with her even though these held to beliefs that the Church considered heterodox. I explained in another thread the principle used by the early Church in accepting the validity of the Sacraments of some of the heterodox - it depended on their acceptance of the Trinitarian God. This is the same principle that is still used by the Catholic and Oriental Orthodox Churches for accepting each others’ Sacraments. It was never an issue of economy.

How the EO can justify what they do under “economy” is not in keeping with the early Church’s understanding of oikonomia. The EO practice/principle is a development at best, and an innovation at worst.

Blessings,
Marduk
 
Hi mardukm,

This is all very interesting.
In another thread about someone remarried becoming Orthodox:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=252435

A poster named Jimmy stated that this is also covered under economy as well. I know that a point of contention between Eastern Orthodox and Catholics has always been about divorce and remarriage and decree of nullity and “church divorce”.

I agree, that I am confused by the Eastern Orthodox as well. I don’t see how they reconcile something through economy that seems based on divine law.
 
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