Economic System

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Would you say the US economic system is headed towards a collapse because of societies immoral nature?
 
gospelofjohn said:
Would you say the US economic system is headed towards a collapse because of societies immoral nature?
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YES…if you search around financial news, you will see and hear alot of important people in this industry saying there is some very bad things coming fairly soon, most say late 2014 into 2015 timeframe, but Im not sure it has to do with immorality as much as it does with greed and fudging numbers, printing money to get out of trouble, etc, for too long of a period, things eventually come back to bite you!

Many people claim this ‘financial collapse or breakdown’ was the reason why so many people who worked in finance were suddenly committing suicide here recently, Im not sure on that, but I guess its possible.

You can find alot of info on this but have to be careful not to get lured into the common conspiracy theory type sites, this financial event is not to be confused with other CT type theories, just look for credible articles from people actually working in the finance field.

IMO, China and Russia are to blame for the most part, but the US is guilty too, they have consistently borrowed money (selling debt), time and time again from China, and the figures are now astronomically high, China COULD demand payment at any time, and if US did not have the money, they could ask for it in gold, (China recently built a HUGE safe to hold more gold than the US has totally!!) Russia will be somehow involved in this as well. Its all an attempt to stop the US dollar being used as the ‘official currency of intl trade’ China wants to have this currency and they are going to get their wish soon. Many countries are going to drop the US dollar, when this happens, China will take over as the worlds prime world power, Russia will be second and Im not sure where the US will be at this point, after the drop of the dollar, they may not even make the list anymore! lol
 
The economic system is based on continuous and increased borrowing and spending. Both are made possible through a petro-dollar propped up through military intervention and realpolitik.

Unfortunately, significant financial speculation from an economic elite has led to fallout, and this has led to questions about using the dollar as a reserve currency. That coupled with the effects of peak oil and environmental damage will not make such systems sustainable.
 
Economies go up and down. Their are booms and busts. The problem the US faces it it never wants to experience the bust.

Many think we are in a bust right now but we have not experienced the full effect as the central bank keeps printing money. Macro economic systems like their micro counter parts individual business needs to experience the loss side of things not just the upside.

Politicians never want it to happen on their watch so they kick the can down the road. George W did it by allowing the then Fed Chairman Greenspan to keep interest rates at artificially low rates, this coupled with no one having the stomach to tackle Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac led to the housing bust.

Much is said about derivatives and other financial instruments and that Wall Street should not have been allowed to create such instruments. The reality is if not for cheap and easy money there would have been no need for these financial instruments. They were created out of demand not the other way around.

The only thing sustaining us is that the dollar is still the worlds benchmark and there is no near end in site to that, but give Obama chance he will remedy that. There is still no economic engine like that of the US, it might be hard to see now considering how hard we fell. China is not going to overtake the US at least not anytime soon, they are still a communist regime that has introduced limited free market capitalism. They create very little instead the copy and produce it cheaper.

Do keep your eye on America if we do not take steps soon to reduce the debt and release the shackles place on American business’s our days wont be long.

But for now America is still that shining city on the hill
 
I live in Britain and much of the populace seems unaware that we are headed for a complete economic meltdown here. Despite what our dear leader would have us believe, not everything is rosy in the garden. We still have a mountain of debt that is much worse than our basketcase economy of the 1970s when the IMF had to bail us out, and it is now reaching Weimar proportions. But the public will only take notice when the government starts grabbing their money. They are also unaware of the savage cuts that are to come in the next parliament as the government tries to tackle these frightening levels of debt. But for now, Dave is trying to keep people sweet and talk business up to get re-elected.

Best wishes,
Padster
 
bmoran said:
Economies go up and down. Their are booms and busts. The problem the US faces it it never wants to experience the bust.

Many think we are in a bust right now but we have not experienced the full effect as the central bank keeps printing money. Macro economic systems like their micro counter parts individual business needs to experience the loss side of things not just the upside.

Politicians never want it to happen on their watch so they kick the can down the road. George W did it by allowing the then Fed Chairman Greenspan to keep interest rates at artificially low rates, this coupled with no one having the stomach to tackle Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac led to the housing bust.

Much is said about derivatives and other financial instruments and that Wall Street should not have been allowed to create such instruments. The reality is if not for cheap and easy money there would have been no need for these financial instruments. They were created out of demand not the other way around.

The only thing sustaining us is that the dollar is still the worlds benchmark and there is no near end in site to that, but give Obama chance he will remedy that. There is still no economic engine like that of the US, it might be hard to see now considering how hard we fell. China is not going to overtake the US at least not anytime soon, they are still a communist regime that has introduced limited free market capitalism. They create very little instead the copy and produce it cheaper.

Do keep your eye on America if we do not take steps soon to reduce the debt and release the shackles place on American business’s our days wont be long.

But for now America is still that shining city on the hill
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Actually China and Russia are taking steps towards ending the reign of the US dollar, China wants a global currency, and they want to control it. Look at all the gold they are currently obtaining, this is all a plan set in motion. US dollar will not be the benchmark for much longer, I believe it will end in our lifetime.
 
In addition, capital expenditures for the oil industry has doubled in exchange for only a marginal increase in production. Oil prices have tripled during the last few years, and that in turn has led to continued economic crises.

Finally, the effects of environmental damage and global warming have led to trillions of dollars lost.
 
Hi-- There are a lot of good points here, and I am glad to hear people recognize that the US would be in a better position if it had allowed a sharp correction take place instead of papering it over again (e.g. propping up a lot of unneeded financial capacity/ banks.)

As a Catholic I would like to say: just because China has been prosecuting a superhuman effort to concentrate wealth and power, it doesn’t mean we should feel the need to compete or worry about them. Call in the markers and chide us on a world stage for being deadbeats? Everybody knows the story anyway-- what good would it do them? Why should we strive to be just as despicable?

Rest assured, the Chinese super-elite and the US super-elite have been working together for a generation, to bilk and enslave the average man of BOTH countries.
 
Oops— are we really answering the “gospel of st john”'s question???

Following up my previous post: a “successful” economy (such as China’s) can be sustained by immorality as much as morality. Same as our unsuccessful economy. So I think the answer is: No!
 
The financial markets are said to run on “fear and greed”.

Interestingly, when I review solicitations for news letters etc., they all promise to direct you to more $, or to save you from loss (fear and greed).

Many of these solicitations are doomsday predictions, and I they all basically want to save you from doomsday, if you buy the newsletter.

There is no way that Chinese currency will replace the dollar because the world does not trust the Chinese government. Even their own people don’t trust them and there is significant flow of currency out of China to safe havens in Western countries by wealthy Chinese.
 
You’ve got that right DEDO-- it is a world of envy and ambition… just because China is posting higher “growth”, people wring their hands in envy. We are “losing”? What are they gaining? They are just grinding their people to the bone and ripping out the last of their forests better than us. So many souls are lost to ambition, but so many lives are lost, too.

And BTW, they receive so many dollars for their cheaply made good that they have to lend them back… AT A RISK e.g. their currency and our currency are just stacks of paper being sold like so many paper, just more promises to pay. We shouldn’t be looking to die (or kill) over some fluctuating mental values on some stacks of paper.
 
dedo said:
The financial markets are said to run on “fear and greed”.

Interestingly, when I review solicitations for news letters etc., they all promise to direct you to more $, or to save you from loss (fear and greed).

Many of these solicitations are doomsday predictions, and I they all basically want to save you from doomsday, if you buy the newsletter.

There is no way that Chinese currency will replace the dollar because the world does not trust the Chinese government. Even their own people don’t trust them and there is significant flow of currency out of China to safe havens in Western countries by wealthy Chinese.
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And what would have become of the US by now had China NOT bought all or debt and continually buying more and more? The Us would have been nothing more than a memory long ago! China is in a unique position, they literally OWN so much of the US, and gaining more each year, eventually, they will own us outright! LOL Plus, theres the bulk gold they have been stockpiling, Id like to know how much the US has compared to them currently? I would bet my paycheck the vault at Ft Knox has been empty for awhile, but the US wont even let anyone in to see how much is there, not even the FED…something not right about that, usually when someone goes to all lengths to hide something, its because its all gone, or something bad happened.

I think I will see the US dollar dropped in my lifetime and the majority of world markets go with another currency, whether its China, Russia, a combo of the 2, or someone else…only a matter of time imo. If its for the greater good of the planet, then Im all for it, maybe the US is doing more harm than good anymore.
 
Sort of. Capitalism and popular media rewards and promotes psychopathy. If you are cutthroat enough you can become a star, a CEO, or anything you like. It is a system that doesn’t really benefit kindness or charity much. Greed, vainglory, and power seeking can be good for the worldly stuff. The flesh ever wars with the soul, eh? Like anything worldly and of the flesh, eventually these systems die too. As sw85 above me said, you can’t grow forever. Our system will die, a new one will rise, that one will die, and so on and so forth. That would be my view anyways.
 
mikekle said:
YES…if you search around financial news, you will see and hear alot of important people in this industry saying there is some very bad things coming fairly soon, most say late 2014 into 2015 timeframe, but Im not sure it has to do with immorality as much as it does with greed and fudging numbers, printing money to get out of trouble, etc, for too long of a period, things eventually come back to bite you!

Many people claim this ‘financial collapse or breakdown’ was the reason why so many people who worked in finance were suddenly committing suicide here recently, Im not sure on that, but I guess its possible.

You can find alot of info on this but have to be careful not to get lured into the common conspiracy theory type sites, this financial event is not to be confused with other CT type theories, just look for credible articles from people actually working in the finance field.

IMO, China and Russia are to blame for the most part, but the US is guilty too, they have consistently borrowed money (selling debt), time and time again from China, and the figures are now astronomically high, China COULD demand payment at any time, and if US did not have the money, they could ask for it in gold, (China recently built a HUGE safe to hold more gold than the US has totally!!) Russia will be somehow involved in this as well. Its all an attempt to stop the US dollar being used as the ‘official currency of intl trade’ China wants to have this currency and they are going to get their wish soon. Many countries are going to drop the US dollar, when this happens, China will take over as the worlds prime world power, Russia will be second and Im not sure where the US will be at this point, after the drop of the dollar, they may not even make the list anymore! lol
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As if China has its moral act together with forced abortions. We’ve got an abortion problem here, but China has a serious problem. One government allows it and another demands it in certain circumstances. I don’t know of many american refugees in China.

All that said, yes, the United States has a debt problem. The trade games will continue to support the Western currencies. I won’t lose any sleep over it; the things that affect my life aren’t all that influenced by what China is or isn’t doing. As always, politics is local.
 
ThomasJMullally said:
Oops— are we really answering the “gospel of st john”'s question???

Following up my previous post: a “successful” economy (such as China’s) can be sustained by immorality as much as morality. Same as our unsuccessful economy. So I think the answer is: No!
Click to expand...
The GDP figures will never be able to capture the value of the economy simply because it can’t capture the volume of goods and services that are created because not all of them are taxed, deducted, or adjusted. What’s the value of a home prepared meal? Where does that show up as income? How about the value of home grown vegetables that are harvested and consumed by the grower?

What’s the value of prayer? Where does that show up on the balance sheet?
 
gospelofjohn said:
Would you say the US economic system is headed towards a collapse because of societies immoral nature?
Click to expand...
That is a complex question.
Is the US economy headed towards collapse?
If so, is it because because society has an immoral nature?

I don’t think teh system is headed for collapse unless a correction is viewed as collapse. Just how great a correction might be is the question. I do not think we will see anyhting like the great depression again although we may have come close if not for the Bank Bail outs.

Is our society immoral? In some ways certainly. I think we need to look for the structural immorality though, the immorality that is either built into law or freely permitted by law. Laws are there for the common good. The greatest danger is when those with the most mony and power influence lawmakers to their own advantage.
 
Laws that support or defend injustice do much to add to moral degradation of the society which the law governs.

One has got to be morally depraved to take an unborn baby’s life. The mind of an abortionist is sick.
 
I believe many who purport this link between the Ten Commandments and a nation’s demise or vigor are misguided. That concept goes back to the Covenants with Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and acknowledged by Moses.

There is no covenant between God and the United States.

The Covenant with Jesus is with the Church–The Catholic Church. We are the new Jerusalem. We are the new Israel. We are the ones who struggle with God. Our communion with God is based on our actions and inactions. However, our Covenant is different. It doesn’t involve a right to land and the right to the fruits of a land. Rather, ours is about freedom from the devil and the love we receive from God. Our covenant is more about our afterlife than about our earthly life (earthly as in the way the earth is now). However, we shall inherit the Earth when the new heaven and new Earth reign after the Last Judgement; therefore, we have much to look forward to.
 
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