Economics and the Church

[GregoryPalamas]

Friends,

With advice from a moderator who is very favorable toward this topic I’d like to start the “Unaffordable Housing” thread but with some cautions to begin with.

1. Please, if you want to call people names or pretend to be holier than thou start your own thread. This topic is too important for such things.
2. The second follows upon the first. Let us assume that every good hearted person wants to find ways to help each other . We probably need some prodding to actually do what we know is right but I do assume we all wish to help sincere people.
3. Persons with handicapping conditions we assume need more help than do others.

The book of Acts explains how the order of Deacon got started. It seems some complained that widows and orphans were not be cared for properly. The Apostles initially seven persons and called them Deacons (servants) to care for those who were in desparate need because of their loss. If this can be our starting point I think we can stay out of trouble.

For those who are more knowledgeable about such things: Don’t Deacons today exist to at least help with such matters as housing problems that exist among people who are not wealthy? Are there apostolates or orders that exist to bring these issues to our attention?

Do we have examples of Catholics who have created communities that would provide housing for the poor even the working poor? Are there groups Catholic or not that have done such things with whom we might refer?

What stories do you have about your own work in this area or about others who have worked in this area that might point us to ways to address the problem of housing for the working poor?

Finally, what tax advantages or grants are there available to people who might wish to help persons with housing cost problems? How effective is Habitat for Humanity? Are there other such groups that do similar work that really work charitably and are not just welfare institutions?

Let’s play nicely so we don’t get shut down again.

Carson Daniel Lauffer

 

[GregoryPalamas]

Well, I think this is a good topic.

CDL

 

[Ani_Ibi]

I think the assumptions you have set out are useful.

I found over Christmas that it is useful to assume that everyone engaged in a discussion on the Social Gospel agrees as to what ends are to be met. We disagree at times as to the means to arrive at those ends, as Jesus so poignantly proves on the day after the Sermon on the Mount.

My instant response as to what the Church can do is that I have found that there are too many cliques in the Church to allow for participation from ’ ordinary ’ Catholics.

But the Catholics on this forum have worked together before. We can do something from here.

While agree that no one is guaranteed a house, I must state that it is beneficial to the individual and to the society that citizens own their own houses. And citizens should include the disabled.

Social housing and cooperative housing are euphemisms for extraterritorial hell-holes. They are generally anti-Catholic, socialist enclaves.

Let’s see what ideas people have and let’s see if we can do something together.

 

[vern_humphrey]

GregoryPalamas:

Well, I think this is a good topic.

CDL

Of course it’s a good topic.

I would point out that Jesus told us what to do, but not how to do it. That by and large remains the role of the Church – to tell us what we must accomplish, but not dictate how to do it.

Or in the language of a different profession, we should be product-oriented, not process-oriented. We cannot claim to have carried out our Christian duties merely because we supported a particular policy – we have to show that we actually helped people. And, as earlier comments on similar threads have pointed out, many well-meaning attempts to help have actually hurt.

On a fundamental level we have to do two things – create jobs and educate people so they can do those jobs.

It is pretty well established that free trade and low taxes create jobs. It is also pretty well established that our public school system is not doing a very good job of educating the children – especially those who live in the poorest areas – and Catholic schools are not picking up the slack.

 

[Karin]

Looking at this website (www.nhc.org/pdf/pub_nc_04_04.pdf ) and others it seems that one of the major problems for the “workign poor” in regards to affording housing (either their own or renting ) is that while they work and work hard (some if not most at two jobs or more) they do not earn enough money!

• In a model that is spreading quickly to communities around the country, buyers purchase homes on land owned by a community land trust (CLT). In return, they agree to a limited profit should they decide to sell. Buyers build equity and enjoy tax benefits in real-estate markets that would otherwise be out of reach. The result is revitalization without gentrification. SOURCE*

**

 

[Steven_Merten]

Hello Gregory,

I want to share with you a horrible reflection that I had when setting out to help the poor.

I volunteered with St. Vincent Depaul. When our dioseas receives calls from the poor in need of help they relay them to SVD. We went out in responce from calls for help from the poor.

When we met with the caller, the lead volunteer started passing out pamphlets and government forms. “Here is the form to sign up for State welfare. Here is the form to get State food stamps. Here is the form to get your heat paid for by the State. Here is the form to get your children on Medicade”. Then from the Bride of Jesus Christ, we the Catholic Church, “Here is a voucher for twenty dollars.” The callers looked at us as if to say, “What planet are you from? What can twenty dollars do for me when I am about to be put out on the street?” One caller did not even take the voucher because it would take more of her precious time to find a way down to cash it than she had to spend in her desperate struggle to evade being evicted.

I really think we, as Catholics, have to look at the bigger picture of the Church, 1.1 billion Catholics, developing a desire to love and obey Jesus by caring for the poor. Let we the Church, try focus on the big picture of caring for the poor period. Let we the Church become a real player in caring for the poor. Even for we the Church were to get to even 50, 30 or 20% of the level that the secular world is already at, in caring for the poor, would be awesome!
NAB MAT 25:31

“When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit upon his glorious throne, and all the nations will be assembled before him. And he will separate them one from another, as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. He will place the sheep on his right and the goats on his left. Then the king will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father. Inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, a stranger and you welcomed me, naked and you clothed me, ill and you cared for me, in prison and you visited me.’ Then the righteous will answer him and say, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink? When did we see you a stranger and welcome you, or naked and clothe you? When did we see you ill or in prison, and visit you?’ And the king will say to them in reply, 'Amen, I say to you, whatever you did for one of these least brothers of mine, you did for me.’ Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you accursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink, a stranger and you gave me no welcome, naked and you gave me no clothing, ill and in prison, and you did not care for me.’ Then they will answer and say, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or ill or in prison, and not minister to your needs?’ He will answer them, ‘Amen, I say to you, what you did not do for one of these least ones, you did not do for me.’ **And these will go off to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.” **

 

[Karin]

Steven Merten:

Hello Gregory,

I want to share with you a horrible reflection that I had when setting out to help the poor.

I volunteered with St. Vincent Depaul. When our dioseas receives calls from the poor in need of help they relay them to SVD. We went out in responce from calls for help from the poor.

When we met with the caller, the lead volunteer started passing out pamphlets and government forms. “Here is the form to sign up for State welfare. Here is the form to get State food stamps. Here is the form to get your heat paid for by the State. Here is the form to get your children on Medicade”. Then from the Bride of Jesus Christ, we the Catholic Church, “Here is a voucher for twenty dollars.” The callers looked at us as if to say, “What planet are you from? What can twenty dollars do for me when I am about to be put out on the street?” One caller did not even take the voucher because it would take more of her precious time to find a way down to cash it than she had to spend in her desperate struggle to evade being evicted.

I really think we, as Catholics, have to look at the bigger picture of the Church, 1.1 billion Catholics, developing a desire to love and obey Jesus by caring for the poor. Let we the Church, try focus on the big picture of caring for the poor period. Let we the Church become a real player in caring for the poor. Even for we the Church were to get to even 50, 30 or 20% of the level that the secular world is already at, in caring for the poor, would be awesome!

**What a shame! **
Perhaps the goverment should get out of the welfare service and let the Catholic Church back into it!

 

[Steven_Merten]

**What a shame! **
Perhaps the goverment should get out of the welfare service and let the Catholic Church back into it!

Hello Karin,

Catholics can start donating to help the poor at any time. There is no law against it.

I have heard that Catholics, on average, spend less than 1% of their income to help the poor when it should be closer to 10%. I have a freind who does taxes. She says that you would be amaized at how little people give to charity.

 

[Karin]

Steven Merten:

Hello Karin,

Catholics can start donating to help the poor at any time. There is no law against it.

I have heard that Catholics, on average, spend less than 1% of their income to help the poor when it should be closer to 10%. I have a freind who does taxes. She says that you would be amaized at how little people give to charity.

My hubby and I are one of those that give between 15-20% to charity…adn we also give our time (so much fun at tax time …our accountant is adament that we have reciepts etc. since we give so much)…but that is besides the point.
I think that Catholics (general) do not give that much any more to the poor because the Goverment is so (LOL) involved in the welfare system, so they perhaps think between their taxes and what little they do give that is enough…why give more!!!
Perhaps if the Church actually came out and strongly insisted (or whatever word fits better) that catholics should do more they would?
I know that my family does alot…as a matter of fact my son (who will be 15) is going to W. Virginia this summer to help Habitat for Humanity through his school build houses for the “poor”.
I do not have a “solution” to the problem but I can tell you that Catholics and others as well need to do more!

 

[Ani_Ibi]

Steven Merten:

I have heard that Catholics, on average, spend less than 1% of their income to help the poor when it should be closer to 10%.

Are you talking about tything or almsgiving? Tything should be 10% and should be done before any other expenditures are made including before almsgiving.

 

[Steven_Merten]

Karin:

My hubby and I are one of those that give between 15-20% to charity…adn we also give our time (so much fun at tax time …our accountant is adament that we have reciepts etc. since we give so much)…but that is besides the point.
I think that Catholics (general) do not give that much any more to the poor because the Goverment is so (LOL) involved in the welfare system, so they perhaps think between their taxes and what little they do give that is enough…why give more!!!
Perhaps if the Church actually came out and strongly insisted (or whatever word fits better) that catholics should do more they would?
I know that my family does alot…as a matter of fact my son (who will be 15) is going to W. Virginia this summer to help Habitat for Humanity through his school build houses for the “poor”.
I do not have a “solution” to the problem but I can tell you that Catholics and others as well need to do more!

Hello Karin,

I think Christ words state that the left hand should not let the right hand know what it is doing, in regards to personal donations. Though I do commend you on what I think is simply a desire to help others come to know the beauty and love for Jesus in donations to the poor.

Unfortunately I have heard many Church leaders condemning the secular world for not caring for the poor. Whaaaat? In the ninties their was a big push by Catholic leaders to have the World Bank (secular world) forgive third world debt. Whaaaat? Not once did I hear Church leaders demand that Catholics come up with some cash, out of love for Jesus, to pay off third world debt to help the poor.

Actually, I did not mention, but in my episode volunteering with St. Vincent Depaul, the lead volunteer mentioned to the poor callers how our bishop had fought hard to keep these State programs for the poor in place. Should we glorify our bishop for his struggle to keep the secular world dishing out the cash for the poor? I am thinking my bishop should have started preaching to Catholics to come up with even a small portion of the what tax payers are doing for the poor, out of love for Jesus. But, of course, you don’t get glorification from Catholics for talking about donation levels, do you?

 

[Steven_Merten]

Ani Ibi:

Are you talking about tything or almsgiving? Tything should be 10% and should be done before any other expenditures are made including before almsgiving.

Hello Ani lbi,

I do not understand what you are stating. Is not tything, almsgiving? Please clarify.

 

[Ani_Ibi]

Steven Merten:

Hello Ani lbi,

I do not understand what you are stating. Is not tything, almsgiving? Please clarify.

No tything is not almsgiving.

 

[Karin]

Steven Merten:

Hello Karin,

I think Christ words state that the left hand should not let the right hand know what it is doing, in regards to personal donations.
Though I do commend you on what I think is simply a desire to help others come to know the beauty and love for Jesus in donations to the poor.
It was not my intention to boast (per say) but as you stated point out what we can do for the poor! It does not always require money to help (though it helps) as my 15y/o is helping the poor with sweat and hard work!

Actually, I did not mention, but in my episode volunteering with St. Vincent Depaul, the lead volunteer mentioned to the poor callers how our bishop had fought hard to keep these State programs for the poor in place
I am sure that he (Bishop) did…but what did or does the Church do for the poor (other than$20)?

---

 

[Karin]

Steven Merten:

Hello Ani lbi,

I do not understand what you are stating. Is not tything, almsgiving? Please clarify.

Tithing benefits the “Church community” almsgiving is directly giving to the poor.

alms-giving: making voluntary contributions to aid the poor
tithing: Church members are asked to contribute ten percent of their gross income to fund Church activities and expansion. While contributions are voluntary, tithing is required for a member to maintain good standing within the Church.

 

[Ani_Ibi]

Steven Merten:

Not once did I hear Church leaders demand that Catholics come up with some cash, out of love for Jesus, to pay off third world debt to help the poor.

So you didn’t hear. Do you have ears to hear?
Steven Merten:

I am thinking my bishop should have started preaching to Catholics to come up with even a small portion of the what tax payers are doing for the poor, out of love for Jesus.

Please set out what the Church is doing for the poor.
Steven Merten:

But, of course, you don’t get glorification from Catholics for talking about donation levels, do you?

I dunno. Do you?

 

[GregoryPalamas]

What is the role of the Deacons in all of this?

I think the example of the receptionist bragging about the Bishop being a supporter of the retention of state programs is counterproductive. I’m not sure state programs help all that much, but I’m open to be corrected.

I haven’t had a chance to check the links Karin gave in the posting above but they certainly look hopeful. As soon as I can I will check.

CDL

 

[Karin]

GregoryPalamas:

What is the role of the Deacons in all of this?

I think the example of the receptionist bragging about the Bishop being a supporter of the retention of state programs is counterproductive. I’m not sure state programs help all that much, but I’m open to be corrected.

I haven’t had a chance to check the links Karin gave in the posting above but they certainly look hopeful. As soon as I can I will check.

CDL

**CDL: **

DUTIES OF DEACONS /www.newadvent.org

 

[Steven_Merten]

GregoryPalamas:

What is the role of the Deacons in all of this?

I think the example of the receptionist bragging about the Bishop being a supporter of the retention of state programs is counterproductive. I’m not sure state programs help all that much, but I’m open to be corrected.

I haven’t had a chance to check the links Karin gave in the posting above but they certainly look hopeful. As soon as I can I will check.

CDL

Hello Gregory,

I ask, does the World Bank go to heaven for forgiving third world debt? Do we say that the State loves Jesus for all their work of welfare programs to aid the poor? Is not the reason God Himself does not construct low income housing because Jesus and the Father have asked the Church to show their love for God in caring for the poor?

I say it is time for the Church to forget about what the State is doing and focus on what 1.1 billion Catholics can do to house those who cannot afford a house and especially focus those who cannot even afford food to eat. What is the Church, 1.1 billion Catholics, doing to care for the poor out of love for Jesus? This is what Deacons should be focused on.

 

[Karin]

Possible Solutions???

*A national commitment to rental housing as an essential resource alongside ownership, including supported housing for people with ongoing service needs *
*Legislation to recapture at-risk units (e.g. landlord incentives for contract renewal) and community commitment to stem the tide of gentrification *
*Enforcement of ‘fair share’ laws, such as the passage of California SB 910, which would add real enforcement mechanisms such as fines and revenue withholding for non-compliant communities *
*Tax changes that would again make housing development a fiscally viable undertaking for communities *
*Increased federal and state funding for production and preservation activities (such as California SB 1227, a housing bond bill intended to serve as a place-holder that demonstrates California’s commitment to affordable housing until more permanent revenue sources can be allocated, and the National Affordable Housing Trust Fund now being sought by a national coalition of housing advocates) *
*More effective use of existing funds (e.g. timely expenditure of housing set-asides, targeting redevelopment funds to worse-case needs, increasing coordination among state housing programs, etc) *
*Developer/landlord incentives or tax breaks to ease the high costs of housing development and maintenance, thus helping to ease the need for higher rents *
*Low enough income-targeting in new developments *
*Tenant involvement in community housing planning, development, and management *
*Regional jobs-to-housing ratio guidelines and inter-city agreements *
*Rent controls in limited and appropriate forms *
*Increased federal minimum wage and local living wage ordinances *
*Reauthorizing TANF with an anti-poverty orientation, with increased resources and time for education, job training, child care, transportation *
*Earned income tax credits (increase federal credits, establish state credit) *
*Increased rental assistance (subsidies) *
*Federal and local enforcement of anti-discrimination laws *
*Appropriate and adequate federal services funding (whether HHS or HUD) *
*Legislation protecting consumers from predatory lending which leads to spiraling debt *
SOURCE