Ecumenical Councils question

[MarysLittleFlower]

Is it an infallible irreversible decision which Councils are ecumenical or valid? Or is this a matter of discipline that we should accept but it’s not infallible? Of course the doctrinal content of the Councils would be infallible. But what about the statement of which Councils are infallible?

The reason I’m asking is because the 8th Council has a complicated history. There was one in 869 and there is debate on whether it was annulled or not in 879 but it was later accepted again. Some Catholic historians seem to give evidence that it really was annulled. If that’s true how does it compare with infallibility, since it would mean that the decision changed over time? By the way much of the disagreement in these two Councils was related to discipline.

I’m really confused about this and would be grateful for any help… Thank you!

 

[MarysLittleFlower]

Its especially confusing how these points relate to Papal infallibility… the two Councils in question (869 and 879) aren’t dogmatic but disciplinary mostly, but how do we explain that a Council that was abrogated was later brought back and made ecumenical? Which Councils are Ecumenical?

 

[PluniaZ]

Any meeting of the college of bishops that is confirmed by the Pope is an ecumenical council.

http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/__P2A.HTM#$16C

http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/_P17.HTM

An ecumenical council cannot be annulled. If that were possible, we could never trust any council, because it could be annulled at any time. And the council that annulled that council could be annulled, and so on.

That alone should be enough to dismiss the validity of the council of 879, since it attempted to annul a prior ecumenical council.

As a historical matter, it is clear that the council of 879 was never accepted by Rome. Warren Carroll covers this extensively from the original documents in his book, “The Building of Christendom.” He writes a short piece about it here:

http://www.ewtn.com/v/experts/showmessage.asp?number=310158

 

[MarysLittleFlower]

It seems like neither Council was considered ecumenical at the time… sources later still talk about only 7 councils. The 869 Council was proclaimed ecumenical later

Something that supports the Catholic view is that apparently Photius was still trying to annul the 869 Council in the 880s. Even after the 879 Council that said it annulled it. So it’s more complex… maybe we’ll never know the full story…

Thanks for the response!