Ecumenical Dialogue

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I respectfully disagree. Converting people is a wonderful thing and should be a constant endeavor, but it is unrealistic to imagine it will somehow happen on your calendar of expectation.
God’s plan includes other civilizations of billions of souls with other faith traditions. Does he love these people less? Isn’t the salvation of Christ for everyone? In the history of our faith it’s Doctors have questioned the belief that Christ’s incarnation and sacrifice could only accommodate a small salvation of the lucky born.
Blessed John Duns SCOTUS railed at the idea that God’s plan could be usurped by us. By our will. Paul made Christ’s supremacy among his most substantial points. SCOTUS wrote, not a plan B mop up job generated by man’s transgression of God’s will. And so, God’s will WINS has to be the truth. I find that idea persuasive. And I trust it. And I need to stop and exercise humility I understanding I am no better , more loved, or more saved than any.
Our charge is simple. Love one another as I have loved you. This is how they will know you are my deciples. And for 2000 years we can’t help decide," yes, well intentioned, but I know better." Like Moses striking the stone twice.
Stick to the blueprint. In truth, the reasons we don’t, are completely self serving. Selfish! Ego based. It feeds the ego to have a conversation and take a position of:
Hey, you are a dinner( you get an instant rush of ego).
Or
My idea is God’s yours is not( God’s chosen talking to the not chosen, what is more ego satisfying).
We don’t have the right or status to boast a SPECIAL place in God’s plan. We have an obligation of first being the servant of all.
And so humility, and following Jesus special commandment is our charge.
 
The Levite and Priest would have been “expected” to fall short by that bunch listening to the parable. Jesus drew them in. Got them to invest in the third passer who they had to think was going to be one of them. They had to expect to be the virtuous hero of the story. And drawn in, Jesus sprung the surprise. A lowly Samaritan. Nobody was spared humility.
 
Maximus1 said:
The Levite and Priest would have been “expected” to fall short by that bunch listening to the parable. Jesus drew them in. Got them to invest in the third passer who they had to think was going to be one of them. They had to expect to be the virtuous hero of the story. And drawn in, Jesus sprung the surprise. A lowly Samaritan. Nobody was spared humility.
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The parable of the Good Samaritan is still a challenge for us today. If faith groups could put aside their differences and work together for the common good, the world would be a better place.
 
The term " Catholic" was said to have been first used by Ignatius of Antioch in 108 AD. That is many years before the Catholic Church had it’s formal beginnings in Rome.
The terms most inspiring meaning is
" Universal". The idea of a Church intended for all.
Later, one Holy and Apostolic Church was written into the Nicene Creed. It retained the inspiration of those remnant ideas from Ignatius. Unfortunately the seeds of incongruent ideas came into being. The Church became an institution influenced by the political aspirations of Empire, and thereafter Tribal/ Imperial/ political forces reduced the term Catholic to it’s proper name. I think Ignatius had it right.
I agree that the Good Samaritan parable is rich in meaning.
I particularly like how the parable is worded, in this sense:
The Levite and priest pass the robbed man at a distance from the robbed man.
The Samaritan does something different.
He looks in! He shortens the distance. You could imagine, it brings his fellow human being into focus. It is a description of intimacy. Investment of self. The victim becomes a human being, no longer out of focus from a distance. Once that happens, then the help comes.
It is subtle, but beautifully written.
 
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Pope Francis at his address on the World Day of prayer for Creation has urged all to join the ecumenical “Season of Creation” initiative, which runs from the September 1st Day of Prayer through the feast of St. Francis of Assisi on October 4th

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Maximus1 said:
The term " Catholic" was said to have been first used by Ignatius of Antioch in 108 AD. …
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I think that fact is misunderstood by many. As though St. Ignatius coined the term “Catholic Church”. But St. Ignatius used the term without fanfare. He assumed that everyone knew what he was talking about. Therefore, it seems to me, the term must have already been in popular usage. His is merely the earliest instance that we have where it is written down.
 
That sounds reasonable.
The year, 108 is proximate to the life of Jesus, and the earliest Christian generation.
 
Catholics have a tradition they call Perenialism.
Since Catholic grade school I have always had difficulties imagining salvation depends on declarations, or a ritual involving a sacrament for example.
Some people interpret that thought as a value statement on the importance of church traditions, sacraments, etc. It isn’t!
It has to do with God. God is perfect. And so it becomes unimaginable that God would have atributes that are more consistent with human imperfections and weaknesses than what we learn God is.
 
Which begs the question that perhaps they are just as useful and valid. I tend to increasingly have more respect for the perspective found in some strands of Judaism that God will judge people for acting with compassion and charity regardless of their faith.
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Without dogma, we get wildly different interpretations of “compassion”, as evidenced by the propaganda for abortion and euthenasia. Germany in the 1930s was not against charity, they used charity to justify their gradual piecemeal rejection of the Natural Law.

This is why you can’t have a Mother Teresa without her strong commitment to doctrinal orthodoxy. This is what some ecumenists seek today. We need both love and truth.
 
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I am a Catholic. My faith I practice within Catholic Dogma. Our tradition.
If I reflect , I would say it provides everything a person requires for Salvation.
This is not a statement of comparison. This is a statement of gratitude.
The ideas of Perennialism in my opinion, do not reflect any ideas of diminishment of my faith. It does reflect a point of view about God.
God is good. Loves his creation. HE IS ALL IN ALL. This idea is reflected in the catechism.
Mother Theresa had a mature faith and it reflected comments she made that might surprise some Catholics. She was enlightened in the Catholic sense.
 
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yankeesouth said:
I don’t think the apostles were sent out to be ecumenical.
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They also didn’t argue and split as the Church leaders managed to do later on. When people in the Church were arguing the Apostles were asking about fraternal love. They also didn’t do a lot of other things that ecumenism today tries to fix.
I agree sometimes ecumenism is not about fixing wounds between Christians but studying other non-Christian religions as an umbrella of Christians being together again. Of course all Christians feel closer to one another in front of other religions who speak of other things and the only other guy who wants to talk about Jesus is the Christian of another denomination. This is a trick that works to start a dialogue between Christians but is not a real dialogue between Christians.
But it’s something which is better than nothing I suppose.
 
commenter said:
Without dogma, we get wildly different interpretations of “compassion”, as evidenced by the propaganda for abortion and euthenasia.
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We seem to be passionate about the things we should not be doing, and sadly, in our town the Catholic Church sits on the sidelines of all the good stuff that happens.

I have been going to Churches Together meetings in our town for about ten years, we pray for each other and we pray for the needs of our community. The churches then strive to do positive ministries.

We have started a food bank, four homes for the homeless, Street Pastors, debt help, good neighbours, addiction courses and so much more. Our Catholic Church has been invited to be a part of this over the years, and it almost feels like we don’t want to be involved. There are times I feel ashamed to be a Catholic; we have the largest congregation in our town and we seem to be about the least involved in social justice.
 
Could it be that through Knights of Columbus, Catholic Charities, Saint Vincent de Paul, Catholic Schools, pro-life, pregnancy aid or 40 days for life, you are involved in social justice?
I’ve never run in to a Catholic community which is not seeking to help the children of God.
 
Eric_Hyom said:
There are times I feel ashamed to be a Catholic; we have the largest congregation in our town and we seem to be about the least involved in social justice.
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Sometimes the most valuable truths to act on are the ones that are currently those most forgotten or denied.

Suppose you live in a place where the local secular media regularly explain the importance of the Natural Law, where the public schools emphasize chastity, where the politicians oppose contraception, and encourage distributism and subsidiarity.

In that situation, you might well try to get the churches to action on other aspects of social justice that perhaps are currently forgotten. This is not the usual situation in the West, in 2019.

But mostly ecumenical groups tend to act on the same social justice truths already taught by the media. In my city there are many Catholics who want the Church to “get with the program”, to teach and practice the same social truths, same social action projects, applauded by the daily newspaper, public schools, and ecumenical groups, and tone down those other truths and social action currently out of fashion.

In my county there are dozens of secular programs for social justice, then the churches add on a few more similar ones; with applause. With no opposition.

There are no secular programs to oppose abortion. So people object to the tiny church prolife involvement.
 
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This has been a very interesting thread…I’m about 1/3 done reading through. Timely in my case…

I’m involved heavily with one of the better (best?) baseball community forums. It doesn’t allow any non-baseball talk, but in passing people skirt that and you get a bit of personality and beliefs mixed in at times. One time the topic of abortion came up, and a long time poster like me started a topic - he’s not a poster I particularly like, but I try to be cordial to all at that site (I’ve got some 9000+ posts in 7 years, so good practice). I said since it was off topic, I’d be more than willing to debate him in personal messages. I figured I knew where it was going, but would try to have a legitimate dialogue. I knew he was a Jewish atheist, but thought maybe I could try to persuade him outside his beliefs without trying to convert him in religious terms. Well, that went terrible after he melted down after about three post conversations “Yeah, let’s every family have 15 kids, you ******* imbecile. Take your bible and go home.” Sigh…but I tried. However, this exact quote gave me a good chuckle, as you know you’ve won a debate when the other person is only willing to swear at you and not debate.

Well in this last few weeks one of my baseball friends on the site mentioned in an e-mail to me something about religion. It turns out that he is a non-attached independent conservative Christian who reads the Bible but doesn’t go to any worship. I had no idea he was even a Christian. I mentioned to him that I was a fully practicing Catholic and that he could ask me any questions if he had any, and I would do my best to answer as I’ve been teaching middle school RE for 20+ years.

He jumped on that chance, as he had had discussions with Catholics before, but they seemed to be cafeteria Catholics or “sweep it under the rug if you don’t like it” types at best. Since that time I’ve given him actual true catechesis, and he keeps asking more. I gave him links to mainstream orthodox Catholic websites, the Church Fathers, etc.

I’ve told him that I’m more than willing to keep answering questions, but that he could also join an RCIA program at any orthodox Catholic parish, as most RCIA programs are just starting up. I told him that he could go to RCIA only to learn more and that there is no need to convert; tell the RCIA director his intention is to learn more about the Faith.

I think that is the way true Ecumenism is supposed to be…present the Faith to those who don’t know and let the beauty of God’s Bride do the work…
 
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Some years ago, I had a profound experience door knocking in the style of the JWs. There was about a dozen of us from different denominations. Our training consisted of having lunch together and praying, then we went off in pairs. We had a questionnaire asking about Easter and Jesus.

I met my partner for the first time when we walked from the church to the first house, we had about ten minutes to get to know each other and formulate a plan. We prayed for the occupants as we approached the first house. At the door my partner introduced himself as John from the Anglican Church; and I said I’m Eric from the Catholic Church.

About a third of the people we met; seemed genuinely interested; as to why Anglicans and Catholics should be together? They wanted to know more.
 
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