Ecumenicalism, Conversion or both?

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Jimmy_B

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Ecumenicalism and Conversion.
Could an exuberant effort by some Catholic converts to convert others to Catholicism, by justifying all of their actions, using the argument of, the importance of ecumenicalism… actually endanger and undermine the truths found in Catholicism?
In other words, do Catholics, especially Catholic converts, need to be careful while attempting to proselytize? What’s more important? The truths found in Catholicism or ecumenicalism? Or, are they one and the same? I believe that converting people to Catholicism is a good thing. I believe the using a “watered-down” version of Catholicism, in order to convert others, for the sake of ecumenicalism undermines Catholicism. The truth, is the truth, is the truth… There is only one version of Catholicism. Not, one that helps to convert and one that doesn’t. I good apologist (and there are many here at CAF) has the ability to argue, “All things Catholic”… even those things, that at first blush, seem difficult to accept.
Convert, Reverts, Cradle-Catholics… do they all have a different approach? I believe that they do… And, can those different approaches all live under one tent? I believe that they can, that is, if their first concern with “ecumenicalism”, is with each other and if they don’t deviate from the one Catholic truth. Catholics need to be able to get along with one another, before they can expect to get along with none Catholics…
Am I wrong?
Your thoughts?
 
Yes!

If you dilute the faith in an attempt to appeal to a heretic, it may yield short term results but can fail long term. In the mean time, you confuse everyone that is absorbing the information around you. You can even get yourself confused.

Magisterial teaching 100%.
 
Jimmy_B said:
Ecumenicalism and Conversion.
Could an exuberant effort by some Catholic converts to convert others to Catholicism, by justifying all of their actions, using the argument of, the importance of ecumenicalism… actually endanger and undermine the truths found in Catholicism?
In other words, do Catholics, especially Catholic converts, need to be careful while attempting to proselytize? What’s more important? The truths found in Catholicism or ecumenicalism? Or, are they one and the same? I believe that converting people to Catholicism is a good thing. I believe the using a “watered-down” version of Catholicism, in order to convert others, for the sake of ecumenicalism undermines Catholicism. The truth, is the truth, is the truth… There is only one version of Catholicism. Not, one that helps to convert and one that doesn’t. I good apologist (and there are many here at CAF) has the ability to argue, “All things Catholic”… even those things, that at first blush, seem difficult to accept.
Convert, Reverts, Cradle-Catholics… do they all have a different approach? I believe that they do… And, can those different approaches all live under one tent? I believe that they can, that is, if their first concern with “ecumenicalism”, is with each other and if they don’t deviate from the one Catholic truth. Catholics need to be able to get along with one another, before they can expect to get along with none Catholics…
Am I wrong?
Your thoughts?
Click to expand...
Hi there! 🙂

I pretty much started out anti-Catholic…but, I have very slowly started to open myself up to Catholic teaching. To go from protestant to Catholic…wow…there’s so much that is vastly different. Now, I am still only in the very beginning process of simply considering whether or not converting is something that I should do, but I will tell you that I am walking along this path taking teeny-tiny baby steps. My baby steps have pretty much involved trying to reconcile my beliefs as a protestant to the CC…in some cases kind of bending the CC teaching in my mind, and giving myself time to process it until it fully makes sense.

So…I assume this is something similar to what Catholic converts went through. The way they approach protestants is probably a reflection of how they themselves came to the CC. Just a thought.

Peace and blessings,
Julie
 
Samuel63 said:
Yes!

If you dilute the faith in an attempt to appeal to a heretic, it may yield short term results but can fail long term. In the mean time, you confuse everyone that is absorbing the information around you. You can even get yourself confused.

Magisterial teaching 100%.
Click to expand...
Thank you.
 
Juliebug108 said:
Hi there! 🙂

I pretty much started out anti-Catholic…but, I have very slowly started to open myself up to Catholic teaching. To go from protestant to Catholic…wow…there’s so much that is vastly different. Now, I am still only in the very beginning process of simply considering whether or not converting is something that I should do, but I will tell you that I am walking along this path taking teeny-tiny baby steps. My baby steps have pretty much involved trying to reconcile my beliefs as a protestant to the CC…in some cases kind of bending the CC teaching in my mind, and giving myself time to process it until it fully makes sense.

So…I assume this is something similar to what Catholic converts went through. The way they approach protestants is probably a reflection of how they themselves came to the CC. Just a thought.

Peace and blessings,
Julie
Click to expand...
Thank you… all good points. I think that whether you’re selling a car, arguing a court case or defending a particular position, any position… including a religious position that different approaches in this process, apply differently, to different people. In other words, to some a blunt and more direct action may cause the desired effect, where, in other cases, “baby steps” are more effective… who’s to know? In either case, as long as the person ultimately reaches the truth, then the process worked. Even if it may be a process that you disagree with. When it comes to Christianity, I’ve always said that there isn’t such a thing, as a bad way to come to Jesus. Everybody starts somewhere… right?
 
I also believe that people should stay loyal and true to their beliefs. It’s been said before, to stay “true to your beliefs” but I think that one should also remain, loyal to their beliefs as well… Think about that one for a minute… What good is truth, without loyalty? That’s the intersection where honor meets…
 
I also believe that people should stay loyal and true to their beliefs. It’s been said before, to stay “true to your beliefs” but I think that one should also remain, loyal to their beliefs as well… Think about that one for a minute… What good is truth, without loyalty? Truth and loyalty…that’s the intersection where honor meets…
 
Jimmy_B said:
Ecumenicalism and Conversion.
Could an exuberant effort by some Catholic converts to convert others to Catholicism, by justifying all of their actions, using the argument of, the importance of ecumenicalism… actually endanger and undermine the truths found in Catholicism?
In other words, do Catholics, especially Catholic converts, need to be careful while attempting to proselytize? What’s more important? The truths found in Catholicism or ecumenicalism? Or, are they one and the same? I believe that converting people to Catholicism is a good thing. I believe the using a “watered-down” version of Catholicism, in order to convert others, for the sake of ecumenicalism undermines Catholicism. The truth, is the truth, is the truth… There is only one version of Catholicism. Not, one that helps to convert and one that doesn’t. I good apologist (and there are many here at CAF) has the ability to argue, “All things Catholic”… even those things, that at first blush, seem difficult to accept.
Convert, Reverts, Cradle-Catholics… do they all have a different approach? I believe that they do… And, can those different approaches all live under one tent? I believe that they can, that is, if their first concern with “ecumenicalism”, is with each other and if they don’t deviate from the one Catholic truth. Catholics need to be able to get along with one another, before they can expect to get along with none Catholics…
Am I wrong?
Your thoughts?
Click to expand...
Hello Jimmy,
I’ve missed you.
While most of what you’ve mentioned here is more of an internal issue amongst Catholics,
I’ll just comment on ecumenism. From my perspective as one who seeks reconciliation and unity, I see the necessity of corporate reconciliation. And in that way, it is best left to our respective communion’s leaderships to dialogue and explore how we return to unity, without compromising doctrine. Trusting in them to maintain truth as each communion sees it, they provide the best possibility to reach true reconciliation without watering down doctrine from either POV.
I think the worst thing that can happen is unity based on something other than that. Relativism will only lead to a later, and perhaps more severe break down the road.

There are a number of examples of steps toward reconciliation that have taken place since Vatican II in corporate dialogue. The process will be slow, but trusting in the Holy Spirit, ecumenical dialogue provides the best hope for eventual unity.

Jon
 
I would like to comment as someone who has been raised as both a strong Roman Catholic and as a supporter of ecumenism.

The kind of ecumenism that I know, in worshiping with Catholic/Protestant/Orthodox Christians in a corporate setting, is one that does not “water down” any particular faith. All of us who worship together take a large focus on Christian unity and what it is that makes us one as brothers and sisters in Christ - and that is Christ Himself. I know that the Protestants in this group do not have the Eucharist, but they all believe that Christ is living and present today in at least some form, they believe that the Holy Spirit is working in us, and that Jesus called us all to love one another and to be one in Him.

Granted, this form of unity is imperfect and we all know it. We know and recognize the differences - we don’t ignore them, but for the sake of love and respect, we don’t get into public debates about these differences. We are encouraged to learn about each others’ denominations so to better understand your own.

We don’t proselytize toward any particular religion. We encourage everyone to know their own religion before choosing to convert to another.

There are 2 benefits from this ecumenical lifestyle for me, personally:
  1. It has helped me become a better Catholic. I have grown in my relationship with God and I have a huge appreciation of the sacraments, always remembering that the Holy Spirit is still present.
  2. It has helped me love Protestants and not make judgments against them - I love what we have in common. It has helped me recognize the gifts that they bring to Christianity. It has given hope that Christianity can indeed be one, by God’s grace. Not necessarily in that every single Protestant will convert to Roman Catholicism, but rather that we may be in communion with each other. Right now this concept of ecumenism is only at the point where our different denominations can come together to worship, but I think the Lord has something bigger for this - it is, after all, an extremely recent concept, at least in this setting.
What I also enjoy about ecumenism is that it takes away from a lot of the anti-Catholicism in the world. It evangelizes Protestants and shows them that being anti-Catholic is not the best way to love the Lord and to love their brothers and sisters. Even if they do not end up converting to Catholicism, at least they can grow an appreciation for it.
 
JonNC said:
Hello Jimmy,
I’ve missed you.
While most of what you’ve mentioned here is more of an internal issue amongst Catholics,
I’ll just comment on ecumenism. From my perspective as one who seeks reconciliation and unity, I see the necessity of corporate reconciliation. And in that way, it is best left to our respective communion’s leaderships to dialogue and explore how we return to unity, without compromising doctrine. Trusting in them to maintain truth as each communion sees it, they provide the best possibility to reach true reconciliation without watering down doctrine from either POV.
I think the worst thing that can happen is unity based on something other than that. Relativism will only lead to a later, and perhaps more severe break down the road.

There are a number of examples of steps toward reconciliation that have taken place since Vatican II in corporate dialogue. The process will be slow, but trusting in the Holy Spirit, ecumenical dialogue provides the best hope for eventual unity.

Jon
Click to expand...
 
Sarah_Angel said:
I would like to comment as someone who has been raised as both a strong Roman Catholic and as a supporter of ecumenism.

The kind of ecumenism that I know, in worshiping with Catholic/Protestant/Orthodox Christians in a corporate setting, is one that does not “water down” any particular faith. All of us who worship together take a large focus on Christian unity and what it is that makes us one as brothers and sisters in Christ - and that is Christ Himself. I know that the Protestants in this group do not have the Eucharist, but they all believe that Christ is living and present today in at least some form, they believe that the Holy Spirit is working in us, and that Jesus called us all to love one another and to be one in Him.

Granted, this form of unity is imperfect and we all know it. We know and recognize the differences - we don’t ignore them, but for the sake of love and respect, we don’t get into public debates about these differences. We are encouraged to learn about each others’ denominations so to better understand your own.

We don’t proselytize toward any particular religion. We encourage everyone to know their own religion before choosing to convert to another.

There are 2 benefits from this ecumenical lifestyle for me, personally:
  1. It has helped me become a better Catholic. I have grown in my relationship with God and I have a huge appreciation of the sacraments, always remembering that the Holy Spirit is still present.
  2. It has helped me love Protestants and not make judgments against them - I love what we have in common. It has helped me recognize the gifts that they bring to Christianity. It has given hope that Christianity can indeed be one, by God’s grace. Not necessarily in that every single Protestant will convert to Roman Catholicism, but rather that we may be in communion with each other. Right now this concept of ecumenism is only at the point where our different denominations can come together to worship, but I think the Lord has something bigger for this - it is, after all, an extremely recent concept, at least in this setting.
What I also enjoy about ecumenism is that it takes away from a lot of the anti-Catholicism in the world. It evangelizes Protestants and shows them that being anti-Catholic is not the best way to love the Lord and to love their brothers and sisters. Even if they do not end up converting to Catholicism, at least they can grow an appreciation for it.
Click to expand...
 
JImmy B. how you been? 👍 😃

God Bless, Gary

I was getting ready send the St Bernard out with some hot Coco for you. 🙂
 
GaryTaylor and JonNC, I missed both of you guys as well… two of my CAF buddies. . Had some health problems and I have also been occupied, doing, all of those things necessary to help one of my kids with his college stuff… my last one to leave home… He’ll be playing football and baseball for Jamestown next year… endless paperwork… Oh well… that’s what parents are there for… right?
 
JonNC said:
Hello Jimmy,
I’ve missed you.
While most of what you’ve mentioned here is more of an internal issue amongst Catholics,
I’ll just comment on ecumenism. From my perspective as one who seeks reconciliation and unity, I see the necessity of corporate reconciliation. And in that way, it is best left to our respective communion’s leaderships to dialogue and explore how we return to unity, without compromising doctrine. Trusting in them to maintain truth as each communion sees it, they provide the best possibility to reach true reconciliation without watering down doctrine from either POV.
I think the worst thing that can happen is unity based on something other than that. Relativism will only lead to a later, and perhaps more severe break down the road.

There are a number of examples of steps toward reconciliation that have taken place since Vatican II in corporate dialogue. The process will be slow, but trusting in the Holy Spirit, ecumenical dialogue provides the best hope for eventual unity.

Jon
Click to expand...
See my last post…
 
Jimmy_B said:
GaryTaylor and JonNC, I missed both of you guys as well… two of my CAF buddies. . Had some health problems and I have also been occupied, doing, all of those things necessary to help one of my kids with his college stuff… my last one to leave home… He’ll be playing football and baseball for Jamestown next year… endless paperwork… Oh well… that’s what parents are there for… right?
Click to expand...
Prayers for your improving health. You’re sending your last one off to college. My youngest graduates in May, and has a job at a mid-West Lutheran Church/school in the fall.

Hold on to your wallet, old friend. 😃

Jon
 
Jimmy_B said:
Ecumenicalism and Conversion.
Could an exuberant effort by some Catholic converts to convert others to Catholicism, by justifying all of their actions, using the argument of, the importance of ecumenicalism… actually endanger and undermine the truths found in Catholicism?
In other words, do Catholics, especially Catholic converts, need to be careful while attempting to proselytize? What’s more important? The truths found in Catholicism or ecumenicalism? Or, are they one and the same? I believe that converting people to Catholicism is a good thing. I believe the using a “watered-down” version of Catholicism, in order to convert others, for the sake of ecumenicalism undermines Catholicism. The truth, is the truth, is the truth… There is only one version of Catholicism. Not, one that helps to convert and one that doesn’t. I good apologist (and there are many here at CAF) has the ability to argue, “All things Catholic”… even those things, that at first blush, seem difficult to accept.
Convert, Reverts, Cradle-Catholics… do they all have a different approach? I believe that they do… And, can those different approaches all live under one tent? I believe that they can, that is, if their first concern with “ecumenicalism”, is with each other and if they don’t deviate from the one Catholic truth. Catholics need to be able to get along with one another, before they can expect to get along with none Catholics…
Am I wrong?
Your thoughts?
Click to expand...
Interesting question you pose, the one part that jumped out to me is the referencing to converting people to Catholicism - if by this you mean from Protestantism. This makes me uneasy as their is more than enough evangelization opportunities around with just the Non Christians out there. Not sure why evangelize one group of Christians to join another. This goes both ways, also uncomfortable with Protestants going around trying ‘convert’ Catholics. If after study and prayer you come to the conclusion to join the Catholic Church, well thats great go for it. But to actively go around and try convert one branch of Christianity to one of the other two seems waisted energy.

Ecumenicalism for me is to understand each other in a charitable way, minus all rhetoric, hyperbole, and half truthes. At least the NonChristians can observe us acting like mature adults rather bickering all the time and counting score of our argumentive “win’s”

Sorry this is a bit of a ramble but those are my two cents
 
JonNC said:
Prayers for your improving health. You’re sending your last one off to college. My youngest graduates in May, and has a job at a mid-West Lutheran Church/school in the fall.

Hold on to your wallet, old friend. 😃

Jon
Click to expand...
*Prayers for your improving health. *
**
Thanks Jon, you know that you’re always in my prayers buddy.

*You’re sending your last one off to college. My youngest graduates in May, and has a job at a mid-West Lutheran Church/school in the fall. *

That’s awesome and a direct reflection of his parents. Good job Jon!
**
Hold on to your wallet, old friend. *
**
Boy… you got that right… My daughter’s was paid for by the GI Bill. My older son is in his 3rd year at West Point, so that’s covered… So, it was just a matter of time before they caught up with me. Hopefully, my youngest will get a full-ride at a big D1 school next year, or get into West Point. He received a Congressional Nomination this year and almost got picked up by a D1 school but we couldn’t get a medical waiver for his knee (football injury) for West Point and we were a little too late with game-tape and paper-work for the D1 football school this year . However, he looks good for a medical waiver, next year, Iv’e been in contact with the USMA coaches and also for D1, next year…So, maybe he will be playing for ARMY next year… or maybe even Notre Dame… that would be awesome. GO ARMY BEAT NAVY! or Go Fighting Irish!.. They both work for me. He just has to stay healthy and be good for another year…Look for my older son this year… same name… He’s an undefeated boxer and will be fighting for the national title next March. He’s hoping to make the next US Olympic Team. A lot can happen between now and then… All I know is that I got to watch my older son box on ESPN and it was awesome… had all the neighbors over and he won! Now I’m looking forward to watching my youngest play football on TV… I’m a blessed Dad…
*
 
Jimmy_B said:
Ecumenicalism and Conversion.
Could an exuberant effort by some Catholic converts to convert others to Catholicism, by justifying all of their actions, using the argument of, the importance of ecumenicalism… actually endanger and undermine the truths found in Catholicism?
In other words, do Catholics, especially Catholic converts, need to be careful while attempting to proselytize? What’s more important? The truths found in Catholicism or ecumenicalism? Or, are they one and the same? I believe that converting people to Catholicism is a good thing. I believe the using a “watered-down” version of Catholicism, in order to convert others, for the sake of ecumenicalism undermines Catholicism. The truth, is the truth, is the truth… There is only one version of Catholicism. Not, one that helps to convert and one that doesn’t. I good apologist (and there are many here at CAF) has the ability to argue, “All things Catholic”… even those things, that at first blush, seem difficult to accept.
Convert, Reverts, Cradle-Catholics… do they all have a different approach? I believe that they do… And, can those different approaches all live under one tent? I believe that they can, that is, if their first concern with “ecumenicalism”, is with each other and if they don’t deviate from the one Catholic truth. Catholics need to be able to get along with one another, before they can expect to get along with none Catholics…
Am I wrong?
Your thoughts?
Click to expand...
 
Samuel63 said:
Yes!

If you dilute the faith in an attempt to appeal to a heretic, it may yield short term results but can fail long term. In the mean time, you confuse everyone that is absorbing the information around you. You can even get yourself confused.

Magisterial teaching 100%.
Click to expand...
 
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