Ecumenicalism strategy?

[Jarkoer]

Hi! First time poster. Sorry if this has been addressed elsewhere already.

In the past, on other web sites, whenever I saw an attack on the church or the faith, I’d usually post a passionate and angry response. Of course anger does not serve God’s will, and I’d go to confession for each of these instances of “angry apologetics”.

Making a good act of contrition and trying to be a good son of the church, I’ve been trying to practice ecumenicalism the best way I know how lately by being meek and humble, and simply giving the facts of the faith all the while exhorting my brothers and sisters in Christ to practice more love towards one another. I’ve stopped a few fights like this, and I’ve made some good protestant friends.

But I can’t help but feel is this really evangelization on my part? I really love my faith, so is there a way I can talk to my non-Catholic brothers and sisters about the beauty and depth of the Catholic faith if I’m limiting myself to just discussing those things our faith has in common with other faiths? I’m very impressed with Mother Teresa of Calcutta’s relationship with the Hindu’s, Muslims, Protestants and atheists, but while diplomacy avoids discussions which concentrate on our differences and rather focuses on our similarities, I’d very much like to discuss the early church fathers, the Eucharist, the depth of the Liturgy, and the miracles like the incorruptables and the Marian apparitions, but at the same time I’m afraid this might turn some people off even if I try to remain as meek and humble and loving as possible.

In this regard, how can I become an even better evangelizer and better son of the church? What is the best way to be proactive?

Thanks!

 

[po18guy]

Consider speaking of the things that are unique to Catholicism. I have told of minor miracles I have seen in prayer before the Blessed Sacrament. Since Christ is the only reason for our faith, and He lives in the Catholic church, which He alone founded, we are remiss in our witness if we fail to inform others of the tremendous spiritual benefits that are derived from communion. A near majority of Christians either know nothing of this, or have heard, but do not believe.

As well, so many (even Catholics) are unaware that each priest can trace his ordination back to one of the twelve. This stands as a stark reminder that Christ founded one church, and that the gates of hell have not prevailed against it. The richness and depth of our faith is limitless, as God Himself is limitless. God is mysterious, and our faith is mysterious, since it came from Him. Many Catholics who have converted from other faiths mention that they were looking for “something more” and that they felt a certain lack in their former church.

When we dialog as “equals”, we insult our faith. Since every other Christian church either split off from the Catholic, or split off from one which did, we have the undiluted original. Remember that it is no sin to boast in the Lord, and that includes the church He founded, since we are Christ’s mystical body. One church is the most pure, the most true, the most ancient. All others contain truth and holiness, but the Catholic is the fulness, which can be experienced nowhere else.

Christ’s peace and blessings in your endeavor.

 

[Jarkoer]

Amen! Not a day goes by where I don’t fall more deeply in love with Christ and His church. Folks at my church think of me as a “pocket apologist” because I keep on coming up with something different from all these books I’m reading. I’ve read a letter from the Vatican and what the Catechism has to say about other churches, and I agree that the Roman Catholic Church is the fullness of truth.

I really appreciate your answer because while I want to radiate Christ’s presence and His teachings to non-Catholics, but at the same time–like you said–I don’t want to insult my faith by claiming any sort of “equality” in Truth. (On the other hand, I have to be careful not to alienate a potential convert.) Because, really, there isn’t any equality in the fulness of our truth. We’ve got the ordination and apostolic succession, the “Seat of Peter”, the Real Presence in the Holy Eucharist, an understanding of Sacred Scripture second to none, tradition, the writings of saints going back 2000 years… and if that wasn’t enough, we’ve got a ton of VERY impressive miracles that give impartial validation of our faith.

Thank you so much! Besides the protestants in my life, I’m trying to be a “meek and humble apologist” to places around the internet as well. Peace of Christ be with you as well, and let’s all pray for the unity of all Christians.

 

[po18guy]

Thank you so much! Besides the protestants in my life, I’m trying to be a “meek and humble apologist” to places around the internet as well. Peace of Christ be with you as well, and let’s all pray for the unity of all Christians.

The moment you consciously decide to fall head over heels in love with Christ, your faith life changes forever. The more you realize that you are in the Lord’s presence at Adoration. The more you fall in love with Christ, the more you are drawn to the Catholic church, or more deeply into it. Despite occasional difficulties and problems we experience, the Lord being among us overshadows everything as the Spirit did Mary at the Annunciation. Every other faith community I have visited feels absolutely empty by comparison.

Yes, you have caught the bug! There’s no turning back now! If you want your faith to go nuclear, please consider baptism in the Holy Spirit at a life in the Spirit seminar. That alone blasted my faith life alive.

Christ’s peace be with you.

 

[Jarkoer]

Yes, you have caught the bug! There’s no turning back now! If you want your faith to go nuclear, please consider baptism in the Holy Spirit at a life in the Spirit seminar. That alone blasted my faith life alive.

Christ’s peace be with you.

I would, and I know it’s Biblical (St. Paul talks about it a lot), and I’ve had an “instructor” corner me and lectured me for about 3 hours on the subject, but I have concerns about the whole discernment thing as it concerns how freely those who have been baptized in the Holy Spirit seem to give themselves over. St. Teresa of Avila talks about similar gifts in her Interior Mansions, but every other chapter deals with discerning whether a vision or gift is in fact from God, or if it’s from the Devil or the imagination. Such gifts are nice “ornaments” (as St. Faustina referred to them). I’ve been studying a lot of Carmelite spirituality and the austerities they practice, and I feel more closely drawn to their approach to spirituality as an act of will and a choice rather than a complete giving over to “impulses of the spirit”. However, unlike some other Catholics, I acknowledge that the Charismatic movement is a good thing for the Church so long as it doesn’t lead to disobedience. And I’ve been approached more than once to join a Prayer Group (such as last night after the Vigil mass). Well, perhaps you can pray for me in this regard, that if it is God’s Will that it should happen then let it happen. In the end, God’s Will in each of our lives according to our particular state in life is really the important thing.

Peace of Christ be with you, and by the Grace of God may the both of us (and everyone in the Mystical Body of Christ) continue to grow in holiness every day!

 

[po18guy]

I acknowledge that the Charismatic movement is a good thing for the Church so long as it doesn’t lead to disobedience.

I limited my experience to the seminar and maybe a once a year “tune up” of my spirituality. I have never spoken in tongues, and I am so thankful for the gift I received. It is tailored to exactly what I had been doing. The release of the gifts of the Holy Spirit absolutely accelerated my faith. I lost my fear of faith. Actually, I lost about all fear. I don’t feel attracted to the entire Charismatic Renewal experience, and I specifically reject those in the movement who claim that all should, or must speak in tongues. That caters to the ego.

But, to enjoy the transformation that the release of the gifts brings is almost indescribable. That I can wholeheartedly endorse.

Christ’s peace.

 

[Jarkoer]

I limited my experience to the seminar and maybe a once a year “tune up” of my spirituality. I have never spoken in tongues, and I am so thankful for the gift I received. It is tailored to exactly what I had been doing. The release of the gifts of the Holy Spirit absolutely accelerated my faith. I lost my fear of faith. Actually, I lost about all fear. I don’t feel attracted to the entire Charismatic Renewal experience, and I specifically reject those in the movement who claim that all should, or must speak in tongues. That caters to the ego.

But, to enjoy the transformation that the release of the gifts brings is almost indescribable. That I can wholeheartedly endorse.

Christ’s peace.

Thank you! I appreciate your (name removed by moderator)ut. I’ve been thinking about this for some weeks now. I guess why the invitation has been extended to me to come join in on prayer groups is because I have this bad habit of jumping up quickly at the processional part of the mass, and having this big ol’ grin on my face during the liturgy.

Different people that I talk to give me different answers concerning the Charismatic Renewal. I’ve heard one lady say that it’s not necessary to pray the Rosary to come closer to Mary. A Charismatic friend told me it’s not necessary to confess your sins to a priest. I saw on a website where a Charismatic considered himself “Catholic” but not “Roman Catholic”. And my instructor friend who tried to get me to come to prayer meetings said that he had a vision of my recently deceased father who “told me to talk to you about the Renewal”. (Knowing my father, though, I doubt that vision was genuine.) Well, I certainly don’t condemn the Renewal because, like JP2 said, it’s good for increasing fervor in the faith in secular societies. But… I have concerns about the whole discernment process concerning these gifts. Having said that, though, I’m very much attracted to the great outpouring of love and confidence I see in the writings of St. Terese of Liseux and in St. Faustina. It’s very much contemplative and interior, but they radiate such a joy! Their humility in knowing their own misery turns into ecstacy when they contemplate how much Christ loves us so much to care about our spiritual well-being and remain with us in the Holy Eucharist–an “invention of love” which displays Christ’s own humility. In contemplating this, who could not throw themselves with all their strength into the arms of this all-loving God?!

And in that respect, I very much admire the Charismatics. So long as it doesn’t lead to Neo-Montanism, whatever leads people closer to Christ is a good thing!

 

[po18guy]

Every spirit must be tested. The evil one knows that he fails miserably when attacking the church from without. So, he sometimes seeks to destroy her from within. I am quite satisfied with having the gifts released. You then go forth with renewed energy, zeal and joy. If you see something odd, avoid it.

Adoration. Did I mention what a blessing Adoration is? As wonderful as the mass is, an hour with Christ in the Blessed Sacrament can work miracles.

Christ’s peace be always with you.

 

[Jarkoer]

Every spirit must be tested. The evil one knows that he fails miserably when attacking the church from without. So, he sometimes seeks to destroy her from within. I am quite satisfied with having the gifts released. You then go forth with renewed energy, zeal and joy. If you see something odd, avoid it.

Adoration. Did I mention what a blessing Adoration is? As wonderful as the mass is, an hour with Christ in the Blessed Sacrament can work miracles.

Christ’s peace be always with you.

Yeah, unfortunately (or perhaps fortunately) because of the internet one can come into contact very quickly with those who profane the faith (just yesterday alone I got into conversations with atheists and Muslims on two completely different topics). And then there’s coming into contact with different “types” of Catholics (It was hard to fathom some of the things the followers of Bayside were saying about Vatican II). Of course we’re called to go forth and evangelize the world. The best evangelical strategy I’ve found is to quiet oneself, and approach things with absolute love. Blessing and forgiving one’s adversary as a brother speaks a lot louder than arguments over logic and doctrine. And I couldn’t have the strength for this if not for the Eucharist. Adoration is just so powerful! Two hours every Monday for me. I really need it too. The world can be so loud, angry and distracting that it’s easy to drown out the quiet voice of our Lord speaking gently to us.

May God the Father bless you, and may the Peace of Christ decend upon you and all your loved ones.

 

[po18guy]

Yeah, unfortunately (or perhaps fortunately) because of the internet one can come into contact very quickly with those who profane the faith (just yesterday alone I got into conversations with atheists and Muslims on two completely different topics). And then there’s coming into contact with different “types” of Catholics (It was hard to fathom some of the things the followers of Bayside were saying about Vatican II). Of course we’re called to go forth and evangelize the world. The best evangelical strategy I’ve found is to quiet oneself, and approach things with absolute love. Blessing and forgiving one’s adversary as a brother speaks a lot louder than arguments over logic and doctrine. And I couldn’t have the strength for this if not for the Eucharist. Adoration is just so powerful! Two hours every Monday for me. I really need it too. The world can be so loud, angry and distracting that it’s easy to drown out the quiet voice of our Lord speaking gently to us.

May God the Father bless you, and may the Peace of Christ decend upon you and all your loved ones.

Sometimes I pray simply that the Lord will arrange the events in the lives of dissidents, atheists and non-Christians so that they reflect on the truth, and question the reason for their own existence. It can’t help but eventually lead them home. Time? It may take their lifetime, but that is also perfection in the Lord’s eyes. The narrow gate is the target. We must focus solely on the gate. To imagine what lies beyond can distract us from our goal. I will see you, spiritually, at Adoration.

Christ’s peace.

 

[Jarkoer]

Sometimes I pray simply that the Lord will arrange the events in the lives of dissidents, atheists and non-Christians so that they reflect on the truth, and question the reason for their own existence. It can’t help but eventually lead them home. Time? It may take their lifetime, but that is also perfection in the Lord’s eyes. The narrow gate is the target. We must focus solely on the gate. To imagine what lies beyond can distract us from our goal. I will see you, spiritually, at Adoration.

Christ’s peace.

Thanks! It was a very fruitful session today. My thoughts and feelings were scattered after having spent the last few days talking with atheists, Muslims and a Fundamentalist. But God really spoke to me in the time I spent with Him and even afterwards by directing me to pick up certain books.

I was reading the prologue to this book about the early church fathers. The author was invited to debate theology with this protestant theologian at a Baptist university. The author was completely unsuccessful in convincing anyone of the Catholic point of view. But he asked this simple question, “Doesn’t it stand to reason that outside of the apostles, the ones who would know Christ’s teachings the best would be the earliest Christians?” And he came to find out several years later that, based on that one question, he had won over an entire group of converts. Ah, may we all cooperate with the graces and inspirations that the Holy Spirit gives us!

I spent the last couple of days interacting with atheists and muslims. I don’t think I made any converts, but it was a good learning experience. Atheists seem to resent any restrictions to their activities, and they’ll grasp at any straw to insinuate that we’re nothign but a cosmic accident with no moral obligations. (A vile idea that flies in the face of the very concept of civilization and human relationships themselves.) Muslims seem to be somewhat influenced by the arian and gnostic heresies of the 4th-6th centuries in their insistance that Christ isn’t divine and that the Crucifixion was shameful. I saw some selected television broadcasts from Lebanon, Saudi Arabia and Iran, and it confused me as to why in the very same sentence they can say that Allah is all-merciful and then advocate jihad against Jews and America. Then it occurred to me that their understanding of God is very Old Testament–Allah is good to righteous people but terribly violent against evil people. Love is conditional whereas in our faith the love that Christ taught is unconditional. That God could be humble and that humility is an aspect of love seems to be an alien concept. That point plus our mutual respect for the Virgin Mary may be good points to bring up in a loving way.

They don’t have to change themselves to love God but in loving God they may find themselves being transformed. To love God with all our strength is to come to want to imitate God’s infinite virtues, and to hate that which God hates… namely sin. Ah! To be free from the denegrating slavery of self-love to find true freedom in returning the love of Heavenly Father who created all of humanity out of love.

Ah! I feel like sowing some more seeds now! What a wonderful place this is.

Peace of Christ be with you, and God bless Catholic Answers.

 

[Jarkoer]

Then it occurred to me that their understanding of God is very Old Testament–Allah is good to righteous people but terribly violent against evil people.

Pardon me. That’s not a good comparison. More like there’s a condemnation of a habitual sinner that precludes an opportunity for repentance. In any event, that’s a good point of conversation with Muslims. Afterall, Jesus forgave that one adultress and told her to sin no more.

 

[po18guy]

Pardon me. That’s not a good comparison. More like there’s a condemnation of a habitual sinner that precludes an opportunity for repentance. In any event, that’s a good point of conversation with Muslims. Afterall, Jesus forgave that one adultress and told her to sin no more.

Indeed, He even forgave the paralytic that was lowered through the roof, because of the faith of his friends! Since Jesus is only a prophet, Islam misses the entire covenant. He came preaching repentance and forgiveness. That was simply not in the mindset of the lost sheep of Israel. He was truly a revolutionary.

And, since Jesus lives in our church, you may go and spend time with Him for spiritual refreshment and the enlightenment of the Holy Spirit. Conversion may take a lifetime, so just one sentence or phrase, even one word, may strike a chord ten, or twenty years along. Ask the Holy Spirit to give you the words.

Christ’s peace.

 

[Psychotheosophy]

In any event, that’s a good point of conversation with Muslims.

John Paul the Great used soccer as a metaphor to explain the faith.

Is there something you have in common with your Non-Catholic friends, with which you can share the Catholic faith?

I think the trick is to keep the conversation between, what Pope Benedict called, “the poles of subjective arbitrariness and fundamentalist fanaticism.”

No pun intended.