Ecumenicalism - Why bother?

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SAVINGRACE

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There are lot of young people in our parish and neighbouring parishes who are into this. I don’t understand why this is being promoted.

We don’t agree on fundamental Doctrines, which strictly speaking are heresies.

Why the promotion of worshipping together?

Can we just treat them with respect but function and worship separately?
 
There are situations where this is a good thing such as after a community tragedy or in honor of a mutual cause such as ending violence or abortion. But as a regular thing, I don’t think there is a benefit and it is confusing for young people.
 
In itself it is a good thing. We should seek to overcome misunderstandings, work together on common goals, grow in love for one another, mutually recognize the goal of Christian unity, that sort of thing.

On the other hand we also need to recognize and debate our differences, realizing that on some issues side must be wrong and needs to be converted.

Also I agree that a lot of people have become confused on this topic, either drifting towards syncretism or indifferentism or else reacting against these errors into a bitter and excessively combative stance towards non-Catholics.
 
“…Christ the Lord found one church and one church only. However, many Christian communions present themselves to people as the true inheritance of Jesus Christ; all indeed profess to be followers of the Lord but they differ in outlook and go their different ways, as if Christ himself were divided. Certainly, such divison opely contradicts the will of Christ, scandalizes the world, and damages the sacred cause of preaching the Gospel to every creature.” —Opening statement from the Vatican II Decree on Ecumenism

Ecumenism is the practical application of the Church’s desire for the restoration of unity among all the followers of Christ. All who have been justified by faith in Baptism are incorporated into Christ.
 
I’ve heard of protestants attending Catholic retreats that have Adoration, and that sparks a conversion in them. Also, getting up in their services shows us what they do, so we can better correct them and get them closer to the truth faster. In the end, it’s all about converting people.
 
“Ecumenical” is applied somewhat differently outside and inside the Catholic Church. Outside the Church, “ecumenical” often means the joining of many different Christian denominations over the things in which they happen to agree on. So for example, when I worked for Habitat for Humanity, it was defined as an ecumenical Christian organization in the sense that it appealed to the broad idea of helping the poor find decent housing.

Inside the Church it can often operate similarly, but its mission is not to celebrate together in spite of differences “just because”, but the outreach is explicitly designed to potentially bring people into the Church. Ecumenicism is an evangelistic ministry within the Church. It’s not about worshiping and doing things together just because it is in the spirit of postmodernism, where tolerance and diversity are celebrated as the supreme virtues. That cultural trend will come and go, probably sooner rather than later (cue Muslims vs secular Westerners)
 
I agree that it can be confusing, but we need to focus on the things we have in common so we can work together towards the common good. For instance, the Manhattan Declaration is an ecumenical document that, I believe, has a greater impact because we all stood together.
 
I too struggle with this.
The problem that I have with the style of Ecumenism employed by many today is that when you refrain from pointing out the areas of separation between The Catholic Church and the numerous Protestant sects, you are giving an implicit stamp of approval to their beliefs. The razors edge that you walk becomes troublesome when you do arrive at discussing the issues which separate us, i.e. the reformation and denial of Church truths. I do not believe the “I’m OK, You’re OK” approach is in the best interest to those who have been fooled into thinking their version of Protestantism is “just as good or better” than The One True Church.
Prior to Vatican Council II this topic was addressed by numerous Popes, and they were mostly of the opinion of remaining at arms length from the Protestants. I understand that times have changed, but to what end do we,as Catholics, do charity to the separated brethren if we do not point out what they have lost by not belonging to The One True Church?
Maybe we need to take a page from the Baptist playbook and spend more time Evangelizing them, with the True, Unblemished, Apostolic Faith in all it’s Glory rather than just getting together for social efforts.
 
DebChris said:
“…Christ the Lord found one church and one church only. However, many Christian communions present themselves to people as the true inheritance of Jesus Christ; all indeed profess to be followers of the Lord but they differ in outlook and go their different ways, as if Christ himself were divided. Certainly, such divison opely contradicts the will of Christ, scandalizes the world, and damages the sacred cause of preaching the Gospel to every creature.” —Opening statement from the Vatican II Decree on Ecumenism

Ecumenism is the practical application of the Church’s desire for the restoration of unity among all the followers of Christ. All who have been justified by faith in Baptism are incorporated into Christ.
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We bother because the Church “bothers.” There are some who misunderstand the Decree on Ecumenism, however that does not negate the Church’s desire for Christian Unity and recognizing similarities as well as differences between Catholic faith and Protestant denominations.
 
IMO the problem is that if maturity in the faith were measured like academic levels then ecumenism really ought to be a grad school topic. Instead we have the equivalent of catholic 3rd graders considering themselves ready to engage in ecumenical ministry.

Anybody unable to define syncretism or indifferentism has no business in ecumenical activities.
 
Well there should be certain criteria for efficacious ecumenical dialogue in my opinion, like that the organization in dialogue with the Catholic Church actually has theological faith. Why we dialogue with Muslims is beyond me. This comes from an inherent misunderstanding of what the word “dialogue.”
 
MorEphrem said:
Why we dialogue with Muslims is beyond me. This comes from an inherent misunderstanding of what the word “dialogue.”
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It depends on what you mean here. It’s true that it’s fruitless to try to discover a way that Islam and Christianity can both be true. They’re mutually incompatible. If that’s the sense of “dialogue” you mean, then I agree.

But it IS helpful and fruitful for there to be human dialogue between Christians and muslims. Humans encounter one another at levels much for subtle than philosophy and theology. Regular human dialogue is critical for mutual coexistence and the avoidance of needless hostilities.
 
manualman said:
It depends on what you mean here. It’s true that it’s fruitless to try to discover a way that Islam and Christianity can both be true. They’re mutually incompatible. If that’s the sense of “dialogue” you mean, then I agree.

But it IS helpful and fruitful for there to be human dialogue between Christians and muslims. Humans encounter one another at levels much for subtle than philosophy and theology. Regular human dialogue is critical for mutual coexistence and the avoidance of needless hostilities.
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I meant the former, academic definition of dialogue as opposed to the later simple encounter or conversation.
 
Pulvis said:
I too struggle with this.
The problem that I have with the style of Ecumenism employed by many today is that when you refrain from pointing out the areas of separation between The Catholic Church and the numerous Protestant sects, you are giving an implicit stamp of approval to their beliefs. The razors edge that you walk becomes troublesome when you do arrive at discussing the issues which separate us, i.e. the reformation and denial of Church truths. I do not believe the “I’m OK, You’re OK” approach is in the best interest to those who have been fooled into thinking their version of Protestantism is “just as good or better” than The One True Church.
Prior to Vatican Council II this topic was addressed by numerous Popes, and they were mostly of the opinion of remaining at arms length from the Protestants. I understand that times have changed, but to what end do we,as Catholics, do charity to the separated brethren if we do not point out what they have lost by not belonging to The One True Church?
Maybe we need to take a page from the Baptist playbook and spend more time Evangelizing them, with the True, Unblemished, Apostolic Faith in all it’s Glory rather than just getting together for social efforts.
Click to expand...
I agree. In fact many times on this forum you get labeled as uncharitable when you do indeed proclaim the Truth.
 
MorEphrem said:
Well there should be certain criteria for efficacious ecumenical dialogue in my opinion, like that the organization in dialogue with the Catholic Church actually has theological faith. Why we dialogue with Muslims is beyond me. This comes from an inherent misunderstanding of what the word “dialogue.”
Click to expand...
Dialogue occurs at many levels. Inter-religious dialogue that is at the level of doctrine, is the realm of theologians.

As laity, our dialogue involves the dialogue of every day life. Getting along, participating in common projects (example: a community hospital), seeking areas of common ground to help make a community work.

In my workplace I work with Muslims, Catholics and people of no faith. I find Muslims easier to dialogue with than people with no faith. We have a very powerful common starting point: love of God.
 
OraLabora said:
Dialogue occurs at many levels. Inter-religious dialogue that is at the level of doctrine, is the realm of theologians.

As laity, our dialogue involves the dialogue of every day life. Getting along, participating in common projects (example: a community hospital), seeking areas of common ground to help make a community work.

In my workplace I work with Muslims, Catholics and people of no faith. I find Muslims easier to dialogue with than people with no faith. We have a very powerful common starting point: love of God.
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As I said I was referring to academic dialogue. What you’re simply referring to is cooperation while interacting. That doesn’t require theological faith nor even any faith at all.
 
MorEphrem said:
Well there should be certain criteria for efficacious ecumenical dialogue in my opinion, like that the organization in dialogue with the Catholic Church actually has theological faith. Why we dialogue with Muslims is beyond me. This comes from an inherent misunderstanding of what the word “dialogue.”
Click to expand...
“Dialogue is communication across differences”–Pope Benedict XVI
OraLabora said:
Dialogue occurs at many levels. Inter-religious dialogue that is at the level of doctrine, is the realm of theologians.

As laity, our dialogue involves the dialogue of every day life. Getting along, participating in common projects (example: a community hospital), seeking areas of common ground to help make a community work.

In my workplace I work with Muslims, Catholics and people of no faith. I find Muslims easier to dialogue with than people with no faith. We have a very powerful common starting point: love of God.
Click to expand...
I work in a Muslim country. While I generally do not get into theological discussions with Muslims, it does not mean that we do not openly share our faith in God in the same way that I would share my faith with somebody who is Jewish.
 
manualman said:
IMO the problem is that if maturity in the faith were measured like academic levels then ecumenism really ought to be a grad school topic. Instead we have the equivalent of catholic 3rd graders considering themselves ready to engage in ecumenical ministry.

Anybody unable to define syncretism or indifferentism has no business in ecumenical activities.
Click to expand...
Go ye therefore…unless you’re ignorant…like a fisherman. Your statement strikes me as odd since Jesus didn’t round up the great minds of the day. He trusted the church to an unlikely assortment guided by the Holy Spirit.
 
Brandall said:
Go ye therefore…unless you’re ignorant…like a fisherman. Your statement strikes me as odd since Jesus didn’t round up the great minds of the day. He trusted the church to an unlikely assortment guided by the Holy Spirit.
Click to expand...
The problem is in our culture, poorly catechized Catholics are more likely to become protestant than protestants are to become Catholic. Everyone knows a Catholic who has become protestant, but fewer know protestants who have become Catholic.
 
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