Ecumenism anyone?

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As a Catholic, I’m curious about what other Catholics on this forum think of ecumenism. My opinion is thus:

On the one hand, we live in a world that is increasingly secular and anti-religious, and concerning our separated brethren, there is more that unites us than divides us in this regard, Additionally, ecumenism can provide the opportunity for Catholics to share the truth of our faith with others.

On the other hand, some Catholic leaders seem to act as though ecumenism means denying the uniqueness of the Catholic faith, or worse yet, believing that all religions are equally good and true. I’m reminded of Scott Hahn’s conversion story Rome Sweet Home where he was talking to a priest about converting and was told “it wouldn’t be ecumenical,” and when Scott Hahn insisted, the priest told him “you won’t get any help from me.” I heard a similar story on a Protestant radio station from an Evangelical minister from India named Ravi Zacharias, who mentioned a family member (I think it was an uncle) who told a priest he wanted to convert from Hinduism to Catholicism and was given the same “It’s not ecumenical” claptrap. :banghead:

THAT sort of apostate “ecumenism” I cannot stand for and will fight tooth and nail against. I’d like to know what others on this forum think.
 
There is nothing wrong with praying with other Christians in front of an abortion clinic or working in a soup kitchen together, or saying an Our Father together.
There is something wrong with saying that any other religious choice has the fullness of faith found in the Catholic faith. You cannot create unity where none exists, but you can celebrate it and work within it when and where it does.
 
At least since Vatican II, to be Catholic is to be ecumenical. Of course, that means being ecumenical in the proper manner, i.e. not watering down or denying articles of faith for the sake of (false) unity.

If you haven’t yet, I’d recommend reading Vatican II’s Decree on Ecumenism, and if you want still more, JPII’s encyclical, On the Commitment to Ecumenism.
 
tell you what you do… Love God with all your heart, body, mind, and soul… Love your neighbor as yourself… Live your faith (faithfully), and they will know you are Christian by your love… (make a good song huh.?)… the best ecumenism in the world is a good catholic witness… a lot more witness (by living it) and a lot less judgement as to how someone else should live will go a long way… 👍
 
The goal of ecumenism should be the conversion of non-Catholics.
 
I agree with you Hananiah. Ecumenism is only legitimate in terms of the ‘ecumenism of return’ spoken of by Pius XI. In other words, the goal of any interaction with other religions is to win them to the Gospel of Jesus Christ and His One and only Church.
 
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ServusChristi:
I agree with you Hananiah. Ecumenism is only legitimate in terms of the ‘ecumenism of return’ spoken of by Pius XI. In other words, the goal of any interaction with other religions is to win them to the Gospel of Jesus Christ and His One and only Church.
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What does this mean viz. the Orthodox? Would they need to abandon their liturgical rites and accept the latin rites? Would they need to recognize the Bishop of Rome not just as the universal shepherd but as their patriarch as well? Would they need to abandon their distinctive theological formulations in favor of the West’s?
 
I say an end to this schism would be great, however I do not think we should water down the faith in the process of doing so, because in the end it will be worse if we do that. I think however that non-Catholc christians are mostly our allies in the culture war.
 
Chris Burgwald:
What does this mean viz. the Orthodox? Would they need to abandon their liturgical rites and accept the latin rites?
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Absolutely not. They would most likely become Eastern Catholics, either joining an existing rite (Ruthenian, Ukranian, Melkite, etc.) or create their own.
Would they need to recognize the Bishop of Rome not just as the universal shepherd but as their patriarch as well? Would they need to abandon their distinctive theological formulations in favor of the West’s?
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They would still have their own Patriarchs, just like Eastern Catholics. However they would have to accept every dogma of the Catholic Church, including papal infallibility and the primacy of jurisdiction of the Roman Pontiff. They would also have to give up their post-schism saints.
 
Why would they have to give up their “post-schism saints”?
 
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Hananiah:
Absolutely not. They would most likely become Eastern Catholics, either joining an existing rite (Ruthenian, Ukranian, Melkite, etc.) or create their own.

They would still have their own Patriarchs, just like Eastern Catholics. However they would have to accept every dogma of the Catholic Church, including papal infallibility and the primacy of jurisdiction of the Roman Pontiff. They would also have to give up their post-schism saints.
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So how is this an ecumenism of return, as is normally understood? I think Cardinal Kasper would even support just this sort of ecumenism.
 
Chris Burgwald:
So how is this an ecumenism of return, as is normally understood? I think Cardinal Kasper would even support just this sort of ecumenism.
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Because the Orthodox still have to return to the Catholic Church. This doesn’t mean giving up legitimate rites. There are Eastern Catholics who are similar to the Orthodox in many ways, only they recognize the jurisdiction and authority of the Holy Father. Thus, the Orthodox would have to renounce schism to rejoin the Church and become Eastern Catholics (they could become part of the Roman Rite if they wanted to but they do not have to).
 
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Tanais:
I say an end to this schism would be great, however I do not think we should water down the faith in the process of doing so, because in the end it will be worse if we do that. I think however that non-Catholc christians are mostly our allies in the culture war.
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I think the culture war is also an opportunity for witnessing to our ‘separated brethren’. They need to understand why only Catholic morality can heal the problems of our society. Only by understanding abortion within the context of other life issues and the contraceptive mentality can it be overcome.
 
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ServusChristi:
Because the Orthodox still have to return to the Catholic Church. This doesn’t mean giving up legitimate rites. There are Eastern Catholics who are similar to the Orthodox in many ways, only they recognize the jurisdiction and authority of the Holy Father. Thus, the Orthodox would have to renounce schism to rejoin the Church and become Eastern Catholics (they could become part of the Roman Rite if they wanted to but they do not have to).
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I guess my point is that I don’t hear any serious ecumenists proposing otherwise. Sure, there are plenty of heterodox people out there calling for the watering down of the faith for the sake of unity, but among those actually involved in ecumenical dialogue, you don’t usually hear anything to the contrary. Some might speculate about the need for the Orthodox to accept post-schism dogmas, but even that viewpoint is in the minority.
 
False ecumenism would speculate that the Orthodox do not have to accept Catholic dogma. As Fr. Corapi likes to say, you must believe everything that Holy Mother Church proposes for your belief.

If you want an idea of false ecumenism, go read some of Fr. Neuhaus’ thoughts on the topic. I like to call it the NeuChurch and the NeuReligion. Somewhere I read an article called the New House of Fr. Neuhaus.

Essentially, the false ecumenists propose a ‘union’ in which Protestants do not have to accept Catholic dogma. It is sort of like a federation of Christian sects (a real union of the holy and unholy!)

Another false ecumenism says that Catholics can learn from non-Catholic spirituality. While we may be able to gather some things from the personal experiences of non-Catholics, everything for our salvation is present right here in the Church.
Peace,
Ryan
 
Ryan, can you refer me to a specific article by Fr. Neuhaus? I’ve never seen him support anything in which someone could deny Catholic dogma in a united Christianity.

In any case, as long as one abides by Vatican II and JPII on ecumenism, they’re in good shape.
 
Well here we even do certain biblestudies together. Had a great one about a few psalms and one about Mary Magdalene.
We have a ecumenical service of Pentecost here with all different protestant churches here. And I do like it that way.
Doesn´t mean I want to miss out on mass though.

Emmy
 
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Fortiterinre:
Why would they have to give up their “post-schism saints”?
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Because outside the Church there is no salvation. Most of those people are probably in hell.
 
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