Ecumenism with Lutherans

  • Thread starter Thread starter whyeyeman
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Joe1 said:
The Lutherans must recant the heresy that contradicts the teachings of the one true Catholic Apostolic Church, and then return to the Church that Martin Luther abandoned all those years ago. The Holy Catholic Apostolic Church must not change its teachings to unify itself with the Lutherans. Rather the Lutherans must change. We all know that there was one Church that Christ created, and that is the Catholic Church. The Lutherans left, and now must return.
Click to expand...
Yes. How well do you think this approach to ecumenism has Worked for the last 500 years?
I’ve heard numerous Lutherans who hold the same view in reverse
 
Yes, it seems like a facade.

We’re supposed to pretend our differences don’t matter that much.

We’re supposed to pretend the Catholic Church and Lutheran ecclesial community are at parity.

We’re supposed to pretend heresies aren’t that dangerous to souls.

What concrete points are there to dialog about? Is more talking going to bring Protestants back home?

It’s like having committees to have discussions about what to talk about.

What’s the course of action to take to bring about the return of our separated brethren?
 
It seems like Catholics have an exceptionally low level of confidence in their Church leaders.
Over the last 60 years, I have seen absolutely no compromise by the Catholic Church on doctrine.
I don’t think serious Lutherans have that intent. Most theologians on both sides recognize that compromise is not the way to unity. Convergence is. Allowing the Spirit to guide both sides together.
It isn’t a good idea to start that kind of dialogue by calling names like heretic. Dialogue doesn’t get off to a good start if both sides begin with, “you must recant.”
 
Last edited:
NuclearReceptor said:
We’re supposed to pretend our differences don’t matter that much.

We’re supposed to pretend the Catholic Church and Lutheran ecclesial community are at parity.

We’re supposed to pretend heresies aren’t that dangerous to souls.
Click to expand...
I have not once seen the Vatican express this. I am not aware that joint services included the Eucharist.
Specifically, and preferably with a link, who in Catholic leadership is asking you to do these?
 
We’re commemorating Luther.

Joint declarations…sure, I guess we can agree that we have similarities.

But we’re commemorating Luther.

The Catholic Church is commemorating Luther.

For what purpose?

To signal to Protestants that we don’t think he caused terrible harm to the Catholic Church?

To say he wasn’t a catalyst for a spiritual bubonic plague?

To imply he was just misunderstood and now everything is in the past so don’t worry?

Conversion of Protestants necessarily requires rejection of Luther. You cannot be Catholic and accept Luther’s teachings.

It’s like we’re trying to row a boat to get to the other side but loading the boat with heavy rocks.
 
We’re commemorating Luther.

Shining a light on him.

Putting him in a place to be remembered and respected as a doer of good.

To extend an olive branch, we’re brushing aside all the damage he has done and basically saying he was a noble person worth commemorating.

And the Lutheran response possibly? “See, the Catholic Church now recognizes that Luther was right in his actions. We’re all the same Christians at the end. There’s no real big difference between them and us.”
 
JonNC said:
Over the last 60 years, I have seen absolutely no compromise by the Catholic Church on doctrine.
Click to expand...
So when the church brushes over the doctrines of cooperation with grace in order to produce a document saying that we have a common understanding of salvation, this is not compromising doctrine?
 
JonNC said:
Yes. How well do you think this approach to ecumenism has Worked for the last 500 years?

I’ve heard numerous Lutherans who hold the same view in reverse
Click to expand...
I figured. But eventually and hopefully they will see Luther’s Heresy
 
whyeyeman said:
40.png
JonNC:
Over the last 60 years, I have seen absolutely no compromise by the Catholic Church on doctrine.
Click to expand...
So when the church brushes over the doctrines of cooperation with grace in order to produce a document saying that we have a common understanding of salvation, this is not compromising doctrine?
Click to expand...
Please be specific. Where has the Vatican brushed over the doctrines of the Catholic Church? If you are speaking of the JDDJ, there are lots of Lutherans who feel the LWF sold out on the doctrine of Justification
 
NuclearReceptor said:
We’re commemorating Luther.

Shining a light on him.

Putting him in a place to be remembered and respected as a doer of good.

To extend an olive branch, we’re brushing aside all the damage he has done and basically saying he was a noble person worth commemorating.

And the Lutheran response possibly? “See, the Catholic Church now recognizes that Luther was right in his actions. We’re all the same Christians at the end. There’s no real big difference between them and us.”
Click to expand...
Again, who in leadership has said these things?
 
Yes. The joint declaration on justification said that we both believe we are saved by grace, brushing over the fact that we differ on whether it is a man’s choice wether or not to cooperate with this grace.
 
whyeyeman said:
Yes. The joint declaration on justification said that we both believe we are saved by grace, brushing over the fact that we differ on whether it is a man’s choice wether or not to cooperate with this grace.
Click to expand...
By whose judgment, from a Catholic perspective, is this true? The Vatican?
 
Actions have foreseeable consequences.

Hint Hint Nod Nod. Sweep things under the rug.

They say without verbalization.
 
Joe1 said:
40.png
JonNC:
And there are Lutherans that pray you will see Rome’s errors
Click to expand...
Well when we talk about errors. I think Luther takes the cake
Click to expand...
Really? Based on what evidence?
Was Luther worse than Zwingli for accepting the real presence?
Was Luther worse than the Anabaptists for promoting infant baptism, baptismal regeneration, private confession to a priest?
Was Luther worse than Calvin when he rejected iconoclasm?

What makes you think Luther was the worst?
 
See, this is what I don’t get.

All this dialog alone accomplishes what?

Will remembering Luther change the minds of hardcore Lutherans?

Or is time and resources better spent deconstructing Luther’s heresies so that using the faculties of the mind enlightened by the Spirit, those living in unintended error may come to see the truth that was expressed since the beginning by the Church (e.g., Sacraments, priesthood, etc)?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top