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NuclearReceptor
Guest
When did I say that?
It was a question, not an accusation . But a lurker might come to that conclusion by what you’ve written, ISTM.When did I say that?
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NuclearReceptor
Guest
None of them required us to commemorate the protestant revolt. (If they did, please let me know.)
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But the last two popes called for these commemorations. B XVI visited Lutheran churches and seminaries in advance of this.None of them required us to commemorate the protestant revolt. (If they did, please let me know.)
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theCardinalbird
Guest
I thought we were comparing the Church and Luther. Considering you said that Lutherans wish me to see Rome’s errors, I said that the errors of Luther are worse then the Church’s errors (if the Church ever made any errors). Sorry for not making it clearReally? Based on what evidence?
Was Luther worse than Zwingli for accepting the real presence?
Was Luther worse than the Anabaptists for promoting infant baptism, baptismal regeneration, private confession to a priest?
Was Luther worse than Calvin when he rejected iconoclasm?
What makes you think Luther was the worst?
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josh987654321
Guest
The Dubia suggests otherwise unfortunately.I have seen absolutely no compromise by the Catholic Church on doctrine.
I agree, but Martin Luther was a heretic and schismatic (albeit the Church may have been corrupted at the time making things easier for him, he still held heresy and schismed), so in order to come back to the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church they have to let him go.It isn’t a good idea to start that kind of dialogue by calling names like heretic. Dialogue doesn’t get off to a good start if both sides begin with, “you must recant.”
Holding joint services for Martin Luther’s 500th anniversary unfortunately sends all the wrong messages, do either of us not care/understand that they are celebrating while we mourn and vice versa?
God Bless You
Thank you for reading
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josh987654321
Guest
Again, who is saying this?
But if you can let Luther go, then why still be Lutheran and why celebrate his 500th anniversary?And these?
God Bless You
Thank you for reading
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josh987654321
Guest
If the Catholic Church did this on it’s own, and didn’t hold joint services, it would be a totally different story, but holding joint services changes it entirely, since we are mourning (or should be) while the others are celebrating Martin Luther’s 500th anniversary. Using the word ‘commemorate’ just brushes this truth under the rug and creates much scandal and confusion when joint services are held between Catholics and Lutherans on Luther’s 500th anniversary.But the last two popes called for these commemorations.
God Bless You
Thank you for reading
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Debbie_Kono
Guest
Do we have a list of “essentials”? I know I’ve asked Protestant apologists for either an essential or non-essential list and I’m still waiting for it.All in the Church must preserve unity in essentials.
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pnewton
Guest
This is might carry more weight if words like “heresy” were not bandied around so carelessly.Using the word ‘commemorate’ just brushes this truth under the rug
The way and method in which the Catholic faith is expressed should never become an obstacle to dialogue with our brethren.
The quote was from Unitatis Redintegratios, adopted at the Vatican II Council. A good example would be the way the joint declaration was crafted.Do we have a list of “essentials”?
No, there is no list.
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StarMapp
Guest
Yeah, at 1:30 am I should sign off, sorry. I agree with you, but after the second paragraph I was addressing the critics and should have opened a second post.
cause/effect
It started with toying with ideas that a perfect Church could have dialogue with an imperfect one(or on deviant theology). This was our “ouijia board”, as if compromise on our end was possible, or a meeting of minds on all points critical to De Fide was possible. The answer is no, we Catholics are open to teach(Mater et Majestra) to those whom the Holy Spirit has opened their eyes to learn and thus start suggesting conversion. We are mandated to call them and present possibilities for their change. Jump to this forum and other discussions and we have Catholics disagreeing with Catholics and the disgrace of accusations and critiques on points of allowed responsibilities,procedures and ritual. I feel we need to go back to the cause and repair the damage by announcing the good news that the Church is still open to deliver the Truth to those receptive to change.
The truth is what the opponents really want to learn even if they don’t realize it, and their souls really desire the Church to stand firm in this sea of confusion. If we lack confidence and unity in ourselves, how can we expect them to feel confidence in us. We recall the possessed person who was grateful that Jesus did not give up on him even when he was on the receiving end of his lashing out and verbal abuse. So it is with these future brothers in Faith, our new Catholics.
cause/effect
It started with toying with ideas that a perfect Church could have dialogue with an imperfect one(or on deviant theology). This was our “ouijia board”, as if compromise on our end was possible, or a meeting of minds on all points critical to De Fide was possible. The answer is no, we Catholics are open to teach(Mater et Majestra) to those whom the Holy Spirit has opened their eyes to learn and thus start suggesting conversion. We are mandated to call them and present possibilities for their change. Jump to this forum and other discussions and we have Catholics disagreeing with Catholics and the disgrace of accusations and critiques on points of allowed responsibilities,procedures and ritual. I feel we need to go back to the cause and repair the damage by announcing the good news that the Church is still open to deliver the Truth to those receptive to change.
The truth is what the opponents really want to learn even if they don’t realize it, and their souls really desire the Church to stand firm in this sea of confusion. If we lack confidence and unity in ourselves, how can we expect them to feel confidence in us. We recall the possessed person who was grateful that Jesus did not give up on him even when he was on the receiving end of his lashing out and verbal abuse. So it is with these future brothers in Faith, our new Catholics.
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spedteacherita
Guest
Exactly!! With the negative posts about who we are (Lutherans, Protestants, etc) I cannot even begin to consider learning more closely what the Catholic Church teaches. None of us as Christians can teach Christ to others if we are continually hammering them with hateful comments. Learn about others, why they live the way they do, why they believe as they do, show charity with each other - maybe dialogue will bring the change.Yeah, at 1:30 am I should sign off, sorry. I agree with you, but after the second paragraph I was addressing the critics and should have opened a second post.
cause/effect
It started with toying with ideas that a perfect Church could have dialogue with an imperfect one(or on deviant theology). This was our “ouijia board”, as if compromise on our end was possible, or a meeting of minds on all points critical to De Fide was possible. The answer is no, we Catholics are open to teach(Mater et Majestra) to those whom the Holy Spirit has opened their eyes to learn and thus start suggesting conversion. We are mandated to call them and present possibilities for their change. Jump to this forum and other discussions and we have Catholics disagreeing with Catholics and the disgrace of accusations and critiques on points of allowed responsibilities,procedures and ritual. I feel we need to go back to the cause and repair the damage by announcing the good news that the Church is still open to deliver the Truth to those receptive to change.
The truth is what the opponents really want to learn even if they don’t realize it, and their souls really desire the Church to stand firm in this sea of confusion. If we lack confidence and unity in ourselves, how can we expect them to feel confidence in us. We recall the possessed person who was grateful that Jesus did not give up on him even when he was on the receiving end of his lashing out and verbal abuse. So it is with these future brothers in Faith, our new Catholics.
Blessings!
Rita
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LutheranScholar
Guest
Quite right. That actually seems to be a majority opinion of the people in the Lutheran Church- Missouri Synod whom I’ve spoken to about the matter. As soon as Rome adopts a quia subscription to the Augsburg Confession, we’ll talk. Until then, all bets are off. Of course, there are Lutherans that hold Pope Leo X responsible for the disintegration of Western Christianity into a multitude of denominations, so there really are many issues to discuss.
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NuclearReceptor
Guest
We remember these historical events…we don’t commemorate them as beneficial events.
We remember them and express condolence that we remain separated due to errors propagated by a heretic.
We remember them and express hope for eventual unity.
In no way is there a reason to commemorate these events as happy events.
We remember them and express condolence that we remain separated due to errors propagated by a heretic.
We remember them and express hope for eventual unity.
In no way is there a reason to commemorate these events as happy events.
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NuclearReceptor
Guest
Luther was a heretic — the Church does not teach Protestants are formal heretics. Luther taught heretical things that went against very fundamental beliefs of the Christian faith.
The objective fact of his heresy is not “hateful”.
Calling out the errors of anti-vaxxers is not “hateful”. It’s fact that can save a child from unnecessary suffering, possibly even death.
The objective fact of his heresy is not “hateful”.
Calling out the errors of anti-vaxxers is not “hateful”. It’s fact that can save a child from unnecessary suffering, possibly even death.
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R_H_Benson
Guest
Upset that the posters you disagree with or who don’t support your agenda aren’t banned on the spot anymore? I’m sorry. This is a forum of discussion where you will meet opposition. It appears the moderators are allowing more freedom and more voices to be heard, thank God. I suggest you take a look at the new forum rules. You will notice that the moderators so far have been fair in enforcing them.I can certainly see that the moderators of the old forum are well and truly missed in this new forum.
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spedteacherita
Guest
Yes, in the RCC’s view Luther was a heretic.I’m not really talking about 500 years ago - that can’t be changed.Luther was a heretic — the Church does not teach Protestants are formal heretics. Luther taught heretical things that went against very fundamental beliefs of the Christian faith.
The objective fact of his heresy is not “hateful”.
Calling out the errors of anti-vaxxers is not “hateful”. It’s fact that can save a child from unnecessary suffering, possibly even death.
What I’m talking about is now
I’m talking about the hateful rhetoric towards Non-Catholics now and from Non-Catholics toward Catholicism. We all love our Lord Jesus and look forward to His return and to everlasting life with Him. Christians in general are hateful toward others who live lifestyles that don’t conform with doctrines, dogmas or Biblical teachings. Love, charity and understanding of others’ positions will go a much further to get someone to listen to you.
Blessings,
Rita
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NuclearReceptor
Guest
Pointing out errors and hoping that all may one day see that the Catholic Church was and is the Church from Pentecost is not hateful rhetoric.
Silencing of truth, uncomfortable truth, is not charity.
Speaking of “hateful towards others”: the political correctness has gotten us to remain silent when the homosexual and transgender agenda are taking over civil society, and sometimes, in various Christian communities. Opposing ideas are not hateful.
No one, at least here, hates Protestants. What we do hate is the fracture caused by a heretic. What we do hate is the fact that so many in the past and present remain separated because the error has continued to propagate.
What we hate is seeing our friends and family members deprived of the Sacraments, life of the Church, liturgy, because of error (obviously not of their own making).
Silencing of truth, uncomfortable truth, is not charity.
Speaking of “hateful towards others”: the political correctness has gotten us to remain silent when the homosexual and transgender agenda are taking over civil society, and sometimes, in various Christian communities. Opposing ideas are not hateful.
No one, at least here, hates Protestants. What we do hate is the fracture caused by a heretic. What we do hate is the fact that so many in the past and present remain separated because the error has continued to propagate.
What we hate is seeing our friends and family members deprived of the Sacraments, life of the Church, liturgy, because of error (obviously not of their own making).
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NuclearReceptor
Guest
Do Lutherans believe Catholics worship saints?
The Confession rejects even saints as intercessors to God.
The Confession rejects even saints as intercessors to God.
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