Ecumenism with Lutherans

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(You probably didn’t know this, but Don_Ruggero is a priest. We should type accordingly…)
 
The official teachings of Lutheranism are incompabitable with Catholicism, regardless of whether they take their beliefs to the logical conclusion. Luther was intelligent enough to know what his doctrine really meant, which is why he personally lived a wretchedly sinful life and relied on the State to keep dissenters in line.

If his followers try to pretend their beliefs don’t mean what they do, that is their business, but they are mistaken.

So whether or not the Lutherans are as bad as Luther is irrelevant. They are incompatible with Catholicism until they reject the core tenants lf their belief system. According to the historical understanding, salvation is closed for the majority of them and it is uncharitable to pretend otherwise.
 
Well, many Lutherans actually consider themselves to be Catholics who adhere to the Augsburg Confession. They believe that Catholics pray to saints for intercession, although St. Paul writes that the one Intercessor between God and man is the Man Jesus Christ. I’m not sure if that necessarily equates to " worship," although some might argue that such prayers give saints a non- Biblical role. This link addresses the Confessional Lutheran view of saintly intercession: http://www.bookofconcord.org/smalcald.php#invocationofsaints
 
NuclearReceptor said:
Pointing out errors and hoping that all may one day see that the Catholic Church was and is the Church from Pentecost is not hateful rhetoric.

Silencing of truth, uncomfortable truth, is not charity.

Speaking of “hateful towards others”: the political correctness has gotten us to remain silent when the homosexual and transgender agenda are taking over civil society, and sometimes, in various Christian communities. Opposing ideas are not hateful.

No one, at least here, hates Protestants. What we do hate is the fracture caused by a heretic. What we do hate is the fact that so many in the past and present remain separated because the error has continued to propagate.

What we hate is seeing our friends and family members deprived of the Sacraments, life of the Church, liturgy, because of error (obviously not of their own making).
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Really? Here on CAF? I’ve read some pretty hateful speech on these boards in a couple of the more active threads the passed week. If those posters don “hate protestants”, they have a funny way of showing it…¯_(ツ)_/¯

Could they just be trolls…I suppose.
 
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How can Lutherans all of a sudden get it right about (not) praying to saints and Holy Order of the Priesthood when the Church had been practicing those from the beginning?

And not just the Catholic Church, but the Orthodox Church.

That means for 1500 years, everyone was wrong, until Protestants showed up and corrected 1500 year old errors.
 
“From Conflict to Communion” is available on the Vatican’s website for your reading pleasure. That should tell you something.
 
Ah, but was it really from the beginning, or was it an innovation that Martin Luther saw and sought to weed out of the Church? The Lutheran Confessions contend that in the early years of the church, the saints were quite properly commemorated for their examples of holiness and only gradually this turned to invocation. Our embrace of the Three Ecumenical Creeds show our own continuity with the Original, Undivided Church. Luther wanted to reform the Church according to Biblical principles. We’re neither Calvinists nor Anabaptists. We hold to the traditions that have been passed down to us, while holding them up to an unchanging standard, which we see in the Book of Concord. Lutheran Church - Missouri Synod - Christian Cyclopedia
 
LutheranScholar said:
although St. Paul writes that the one Intercessor between God and man is the Man Jesus Christ.
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So, no praying (interceding) for one another? Go directly to Jesus Christ and bypass not only the Church Militant’s intercessory powers, but particularly the most efficacious, the Church Triumphant’s as well?
 
The foundation of good works is an active faith, gifted to believers by the Holy Spirit. James 2:24 wonderfully highlights our cause in that ones works manifest one’s faith. It’s quite true that faith without an outward manifestation of works is dead. It’s false that our works effect in any way our salvation, which was won by Jesus Christ by His life, death and Resurrection.
 
Is it mandatory to pray to Saints? Is it mandatory that we pray to Mary? Why don’t we just go right to the Source and pray as Jesus taught us to pray in the Lord’s prayer?

I understand Catholic issues with commemorating the Reformation - I probably would feel the same way. I’ve been on CAF for a long time and have not been convinced of the dogmas and doctrines that have evolved over the years. I stay with the LCMS because I understand the teachings and, after years in Baptist and other non-denominational churches heard the grace of being justified by faith alone. I love my Lord and know that I will be celebrating eternal joy with all of my Christian friends - Catholics, EO, Baptist etc.

I’m sorry I went a bit off topic.

Blessings all!

Rita
 
The Trinity dwells in all believers. What better way to assist the progress of the Church Militant than to appeal directly to the Church’s Head?
 
Is it mandatory to eat well? Is it mandatory to exercise?

One can survive on cheetos and carrots and 1% milk. One can survive sitting on a couch all day. Is it a good idea?
 
LutheranScholar said:
It’s false that our works effect in any way our salvation
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“What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him?
You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone” James 2:14,22 ESV

Notice the words “save” and “justified”. Let Scripture speak for itself.
 
LutheranScholar said:
The Trinity dwells in all believers. What better way to assist the progress of the Church Militant than to appeal directly to the Church’s Head?
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So, then why go through the Church Militant if you can “appeal directly to the Church’s Head”?
 
The Lutheran Church in New York hosted the Ecumenical service of Repentance and Thanksgiving in honor of the 500th Anniversary of the Reformation. It was attended by dozens of Church leaders, as you can see. I believe they used the Liturgy that was created by the Joint Commission of Lutheran/RC relations. Both Lutherans and Catholics expressed sorrow and repentance for acts committed against each other in the past 500 years, and expressed commitment to honor each other as brothers and sisters in Christ. (Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
 
AugustTherese said:
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LutheranScholar:
Luther wanted to reform the Church according to Biblical principles
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What about that “Biblical principle” of James 2:24?
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We must use Scripture to interpret Scripture. What James says in 2:24 is very valid and he’s warning us that our faith is not valid if we do not have works.

But if we go to Ephesians, Paul states:
Ephesians 2:8-9 ESV /
For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

God bless!

Rita
 
Maybe I should have been more specific. Does the Catholic Church say one MUST pray to saints and Mary?

I would say that praying to Jesus and God our Father through the Holy Spirit would be like eating steak.

Love the conversation!

Rita
 
AugustTherese said:
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LutheranScholar:
The Trinity dwells in all believers. What better way to assist the progress of the Church Militant than to appeal directly to the Church’s Head?
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So, then why go through the Church Militant if you can “appeal directly to the Church’s Head”?
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And the church’s Head is Christ, no?

Rita
 
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