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twinc
Guest
are the present rivers tigris and euphrates the ones that flowed through the garden of Eden - twinc
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Tyuiop411
Guest
That’s were i would bet it was, but i don’t spend much time worrying about where it was after all it’s gone now.
C
COPLAND_3
Guest
Here is what I wrote in my commentary on Genesis
This is found here litteralchristianlibrary.wetpaint.com/page/Gen.+Chapter+2
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Joe_Kelley
Guest
Especially I think it highly unlikely that the rivers retained their courses through Noah’s flood.
J
juliamajor
Guest
Name given to the “earthly paradise” occupied by Adam and Eve before their fall through sin. The word “Eden,” perhaps an Assyrian loan-word, is of the same root as the Assyrian “edinu,” synonymous with “ṣeru” (= field, depression; compare the Arabic “zaur,” which is the name still given to the country south of Babylon and extending to the Persian Gulf; the nomadic tribes inhabiting it were called by the Assyrians “sabe edini”) (see Delitzsch, “Wo Lag das Paradies?”). Its connection with the Hebrew word is of later origin. Sprenger (“Das Leben und die Lehre des Mohammad,” ii. 507) explains it through the Arabic “'adn.”
Views of Delitzsch.
The writer of the Biblical story of Eden (Gen. ii.-iii.) is evidently describing some place which he conceives to be on the earth; hence the exact details: “God planted a garden eastward, in Eden,” etc. Many attempts have been made to determine the precise geographical location. The most ancienttradition, going back to Josephus and followed by most of the Church Fathers, makes Havilah equivalent to India, and the Pison one of its rivers, while Cush is Ethiopia and the Gihon the Nile. A very popular theory places Eden in Babylonia. Calvin made the Shaṭṭal-'Arab—formed by the union of the Tigris and Euphrates—the river that “went out of the garden”; but it is now known that in ancient times the two rivers entered the Persian Gulf separately. Friedrich Delitzsch also places Eden in the country around Babylon and south of it, a country which was so beautiful in its luxuriant vegetation and abundant streams that it was known as “Kar-Duniash,” or “garden of the god Duniash.” Rawlinson even tried to show the identity of the names “Gan-Eden” and “Kar-Duniash.” This region is watered practically by the Euphrates alone, which is here on a higher level than the Tigris. The Pison and the Gihon are identified with two canals (they may originally have been river-beds) which branch out from the Euphrates just below Babylon. The former, to the west, is the Pallacopas, upon which Ur was situated, and Havilah is thus identified with the portion of the Syrian desert bordering on Babylonia, which is known to have been rich in gold. The latter, Gihon, is the Shaṭṭ al-Nil, which passes the ruins of the ancient Erech, while Cush is the Mat Kashshi, or the northern part of Babylonia proper. Curiously enough, this region was also called “Meluḥa,” which name was afterward transferred to Ethiopia. Other Assyriologists (e.g.,Haupt, “Wo Lag das Paradies?” in “Ueber Land und Meer,” 1894-95, No. 15) do not credit the Biblical writer with the definiteness of geographical knowledge which Delitzsch considers him to have had.
The Gilgamesh Epic.
A very natural theory, which must occur to any one reading the Babylonian Gilgamesh epic, connects Eden with the dwelling of Parnapishtim, the Babylonian Noah, at the “confluence of streams.” This is supposed to have been in the Persian Gulf or Nar Marratim (“stream of bitterness”), into which emptied the four rivers Euphrates, Tigris, Kercha, and Karun (compare Jensen, “Kosmologie der Babylonier,” p. 507, and Jastrow, “Religion of the Babylonians and Assyrians,” p. 506). It is probable, however, that the story as given in the Bible is a later adaptation of an old legend, points of which were vague to the narrator himself, and hence any attempt to find the precise location of Eden must prove futile. Indeed, the original Eden was very likely in heaven, which agrees with the view on the subject held by the Arabs. Gunkel, in his commentary on Genesis, also adopts this view, and connects the stream coming out of Eden with the Milky Way and its four branches.
The El-Amarna Tablets.
Though there is no one Babylonian legend of the Garden of Eden with which the Biblical story can be compared as in the case of the stories of the Creation and of the Flood, there are nevertheless points of relationship between it and Babylonian mythology. On one of the tablets found at Tell el-Amarna, now in the Berlin Museum, occurs the legend of Adapa. Adapa, the first man, is the son of the god Ea, by whom he has been endowed with wisdom, but not with everlasting life. He lives in Eridu, and cares for the sanctuary of the god. One day while fishing in a calm sea the south wind suddenly arises and overturns his boat. In his anger Adapa fights with the south wind and breaks his wings so that he can not blow for seven days. Anu, the god of heaven, hearing of this, summons Adapa before him. Ea gives his son instructions as to his behavior before Anu; among other things he tells him: “Bread of death will they offer thee: eat not of it. Water of death will they bring thee: drink not of it.” Adapa does as he is told, but the bread and water Anu causes to be placed before him are of life, not of death. Thus Adapa loses his chance of eternal life. He puts on the garment, however, which is offered him, following Ea’s instructions. In this story the bread of life is parallel to the tree of life in the Biblical story. It is probable that the water of life also formed a part of the original story, and that the river of Eden is a trace of it. In Ezek. xlvii. 6-12 and, with some variation, in Rev. xxii. 1, 2 mention is made of a “river of water of life, . . . and on either side of the river was there the tree of life,” showing that the water of life was associated with the tree of life.
Read more: jewishencyclopedia.com/view.jsp?artid=39&letter=E&search=Eden#ixzz0af82Y1OL
Views of Delitzsch.
The writer of the Biblical story of Eden (Gen. ii.-iii.) is evidently describing some place which he conceives to be on the earth; hence the exact details: “God planted a garden eastward, in Eden,” etc. Many attempts have been made to determine the precise geographical location. The most ancienttradition, going back to Josephus and followed by most of the Church Fathers, makes Havilah equivalent to India, and the Pison one of its rivers, while Cush is Ethiopia and the Gihon the Nile. A very popular theory places Eden in Babylonia. Calvin made the Shaṭṭal-'Arab—formed by the union of the Tigris and Euphrates—the river that “went out of the garden”; but it is now known that in ancient times the two rivers entered the Persian Gulf separately. Friedrich Delitzsch also places Eden in the country around Babylon and south of it, a country which was so beautiful in its luxuriant vegetation and abundant streams that it was known as “Kar-Duniash,” or “garden of the god Duniash.” Rawlinson even tried to show the identity of the names “Gan-Eden” and “Kar-Duniash.” This region is watered practically by the Euphrates alone, which is here on a higher level than the Tigris. The Pison and the Gihon are identified with two canals (they may originally have been river-beds) which branch out from the Euphrates just below Babylon. The former, to the west, is the Pallacopas, upon which Ur was situated, and Havilah is thus identified with the portion of the Syrian desert bordering on Babylonia, which is known to have been rich in gold. The latter, Gihon, is the Shaṭṭ al-Nil, which passes the ruins of the ancient Erech, while Cush is the Mat Kashshi, or the northern part of Babylonia proper. Curiously enough, this region was also called “Meluḥa,” which name was afterward transferred to Ethiopia. Other Assyriologists (e.g.,Haupt, “Wo Lag das Paradies?” in “Ueber Land und Meer,” 1894-95, No. 15) do not credit the Biblical writer with the definiteness of geographical knowledge which Delitzsch considers him to have had.
The Gilgamesh Epic.
A very natural theory, which must occur to any one reading the Babylonian Gilgamesh epic, connects Eden with the dwelling of Parnapishtim, the Babylonian Noah, at the “confluence of streams.” This is supposed to have been in the Persian Gulf or Nar Marratim (“stream of bitterness”), into which emptied the four rivers Euphrates, Tigris, Kercha, and Karun (compare Jensen, “Kosmologie der Babylonier,” p. 507, and Jastrow, “Religion of the Babylonians and Assyrians,” p. 506). It is probable, however, that the story as given in the Bible is a later adaptation of an old legend, points of which were vague to the narrator himself, and hence any attempt to find the precise location of Eden must prove futile. Indeed, the original Eden was very likely in heaven, which agrees with the view on the subject held by the Arabs. Gunkel, in his commentary on Genesis, also adopts this view, and connects the stream coming out of Eden with the Milky Way and its four branches.
The El-Amarna Tablets.
Though there is no one Babylonian legend of the Garden of Eden with which the Biblical story can be compared as in the case of the stories of the Creation and of the Flood, there are nevertheless points of relationship between it and Babylonian mythology. On one of the tablets found at Tell el-Amarna, now in the Berlin Museum, occurs the legend of Adapa. Adapa, the first man, is the son of the god Ea, by whom he has been endowed with wisdom, but not with everlasting life. He lives in Eridu, and cares for the sanctuary of the god. One day while fishing in a calm sea the south wind suddenly arises and overturns his boat. In his anger Adapa fights with the south wind and breaks his wings so that he can not blow for seven days. Anu, the god of heaven, hearing of this, summons Adapa before him. Ea gives his son instructions as to his behavior before Anu; among other things he tells him: “Bread of death will they offer thee: eat not of it. Water of death will they bring thee: drink not of it.” Adapa does as he is told, but the bread and water Anu causes to be placed before him are of life, not of death. Thus Adapa loses his chance of eternal life. He puts on the garment, however, which is offered him, following Ea’s instructions. In this story the bread of life is parallel to the tree of life in the Biblical story. It is probable that the water of life also formed a part of the original story, and that the river of Eden is a trace of it. In Ezek. xlvii. 6-12 and, with some variation, in Rev. xxii. 1, 2 mention is made of a “river of water of life, . . . and on either side of the river was there the tree of life,” showing that the water of life was associated with the tree of life.
Read more: jewishencyclopedia.com/view.jsp?artid=39&letter=E&search=Eden#ixzz0af82Y1OL
J
juliamajor
Guest
Further, in the Biblical story, as in the Adapa legend, man is prevented from eating the food of life through being told that it means death to him. “In the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die” (Gen. ii. 17); and it is Ea, who has formed man, who is the means of preventing him from attaining life everlasting, just as it is God who removes man from out of Eden “lest he put forth his hand and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever” (ib. iii. 22). Jastrow (l.c.) remarks that the Hebrew story is more pessimistic than the Babylonian, since God even begrudges man knowledge, which the Babylonian god freely gives him. Adapa, who has been endowed with knowledge, puts on the garment given him by Anu, and Adam and Eve, after eating of the tree of knowledge, make for themselves garments of fig-leaves.
Schrader (“K. A. T.” ii. 1, 523) calls attention to the possibility of associating the name “Adam” with “Adapa.” The “garden of God,” situated on the mountain, in Ezek. xxviii. 13, 14, and the tall cedar in Ezek. xxxi. 3, may have some connection with the cedar-grove of Khumbaba in the Gilgamesh epic and with the high cedar in the midst of the grove. In this connection may be mentioned the attempt to associate Eden with the mountain in Iranian mythology, out of which rivers flow, or with the Indian mountain Maru with the four rivers (Lenormant). Jensen (“Keilschriftliche Bibliothek,” vi.) places the “confluence of the streams” in the Far West, and associates the island with the Greek Elysium.
Snake and Cherubim.
The snake in the story is probably identical with the snake or dragon in the Babylonian story of the Creation. In the British Museum there is a cylinder seal which has been supposed by Delitzsch, among others, to represent the Babylonian story of Eden (see illustration, Jew. Encyc. i. 174). The seal represents two figures, a male and a female, seated on opposite sides of a tree, with handsstretched toward it; behind the woman is an up-right snake. This picture alone, however, is hardly sufficient basis for believing that the Babylonians had such a story. The cherubim placed to guard the entrance to Eden are distinctly Babylonian, and are identical with the immense winged bulls and lions at the entrances to Babylonian and Assyrian temples. See Cherub.
Bibliography: Guttmacher, Optimism and Religionism in the Old and New Testaments, pp. 243-245, Baltimore, 1903.E. G. H. M. W. M.
—In Rabbinical Literature:
The Talmudists and Cabalists agree that there are two gardens of Eden: one, the terrestrial, of abundant fertility and luxuriant vegetation; the other, celestial, the habitation of righteous, immortal souls. These two are known as the “lower” and “higher” Gan Eden. The location of the earthly Eden is traced by its boundaries as described in Genesis.
Identification of the Four Rivers.
The Midrash (Gen. R. xvi. 7) identifies the “four heads” of the rivers with Babylon (Pison), Medo-Persia (Gihon), Greece (Hiddekel), Edom-Rome (Perat), and regards Havilah as Palestine. The Targum Yerushalmi translates “Havilah” by “Hindiki” (“Hindustan,” or India), and leaves “Pison” untranslated. Saadia Gaon, in his Arabic translation, renders “Pison” the Nile, which Ibn Ezra ridicules, as “it is positively known that Eden is farther south, on the equator.” Naḥmanides coincides in this view, but explains that the Pison may run in a subterranean passage from the equator northward. Obadiah of Bertinoro, the commentator of the Mishnah, in a letter describing his travels from Italy to Jerusalem in 1489, relates the story of Jews arriving at Jerusalem from “Aden, the land where the well-known and famous Gan Eden is situated, which is southeast of Assyria.” Jacob Safir, who visited Aden in 1865, describes it in his “Eben Sappir” (ii.3) as sandy and barren, and can not posssibly indorse the idea of connecting Aden with the Eden of Genesis. The opinions of the most eminent Jewish authorities point to the location of Eden in Arabia. The “four heads” or mouths of the rivers(= seas) are probably the Persian Gulf (east), the Gulf of Aden (south), the Caspian Sea (north), and the Red Sea (west). The first river, Pison, probably refers to the Indus, which encircles Hindustan, confirming the Targum Yerushalmi. The second river, Gihon, is the Nile in its circuitous course around Ethiopia, connecting with the Gulf of Aden. The third river, Hiddekel, is the Tigris, which has its course in the front () of Assur (= Persia), speaking from the writer’s point of view in Palestine. Some explain the difficulty of finding the courses of the rivers by supposing that since the Deluge these rivers have either ceased to exist, entirely or in part, or have found subterranean outlets. Indeed, the compiler of the Midrash ha-Gadol expresses himself as follows: “Eden is a certain place on earth, but no creature knows where it is, and the Holy One, blessed be He! will only reveal to Israel the way to it in the days of the king Messiah” (Midr. ha-Gadol, ed. Schechter, col. 75).
Read more: jewishencyclopedia.com/view.jsp?artid=39&letter=E&search=eden#ixzz0af9FLLCC
Schrader (“K. A. T.” ii. 1, 523) calls attention to the possibility of associating the name “Adam” with “Adapa.” The “garden of God,” situated on the mountain, in Ezek. xxviii. 13, 14, and the tall cedar in Ezek. xxxi. 3, may have some connection with the cedar-grove of Khumbaba in the Gilgamesh epic and with the high cedar in the midst of the grove. In this connection may be mentioned the attempt to associate Eden with the mountain in Iranian mythology, out of which rivers flow, or with the Indian mountain Maru with the four rivers (Lenormant). Jensen (“Keilschriftliche Bibliothek,” vi.) places the “confluence of the streams” in the Far West, and associates the island with the Greek Elysium.
Snake and Cherubim.
The snake in the story is probably identical with the snake or dragon in the Babylonian story of the Creation. In the British Museum there is a cylinder seal which has been supposed by Delitzsch, among others, to represent the Babylonian story of Eden (see illustration, Jew. Encyc. i. 174). The seal represents two figures, a male and a female, seated on opposite sides of a tree, with handsstretched toward it; behind the woman is an up-right snake. This picture alone, however, is hardly sufficient basis for believing that the Babylonians had such a story. The cherubim placed to guard the entrance to Eden are distinctly Babylonian, and are identical with the immense winged bulls and lions at the entrances to Babylonian and Assyrian temples. See Cherub.
Bibliography: Guttmacher, Optimism and Religionism in the Old and New Testaments, pp. 243-245, Baltimore, 1903.E. G. H. M. W. M.
—In Rabbinical Literature:
The Talmudists and Cabalists agree that there are two gardens of Eden: one, the terrestrial, of abundant fertility and luxuriant vegetation; the other, celestial, the habitation of righteous, immortal souls. These two are known as the “lower” and “higher” Gan Eden. The location of the earthly Eden is traced by its boundaries as described in Genesis.
Identification of the Four Rivers.
The Midrash (Gen. R. xvi. 7) identifies the “four heads” of the rivers with Babylon (Pison), Medo-Persia (Gihon), Greece (Hiddekel), Edom-Rome (Perat), and regards Havilah as Palestine. The Targum Yerushalmi translates “Havilah” by “Hindiki” (“Hindustan,” or India), and leaves “Pison” untranslated. Saadia Gaon, in his Arabic translation, renders “Pison” the Nile, which Ibn Ezra ridicules, as “it is positively known that Eden is farther south, on the equator.” Naḥmanides coincides in this view, but explains that the Pison may run in a subterranean passage from the equator northward. Obadiah of Bertinoro, the commentator of the Mishnah, in a letter describing his travels from Italy to Jerusalem in 1489, relates the story of Jews arriving at Jerusalem from “Aden, the land where the well-known and famous Gan Eden is situated, which is southeast of Assyria.” Jacob Safir, who visited Aden in 1865, describes it in his “Eben Sappir” (ii.3) as sandy and barren, and can not posssibly indorse the idea of connecting Aden with the Eden of Genesis. The opinions of the most eminent Jewish authorities point to the location of Eden in Arabia. The “four heads” or mouths of the rivers(= seas) are probably the Persian Gulf (east), the Gulf of Aden (south), the Caspian Sea (north), and the Red Sea (west). The first river, Pison, probably refers to the Indus, which encircles Hindustan, confirming the Targum Yerushalmi. The second river, Gihon, is the Nile in its circuitous course around Ethiopia, connecting with the Gulf of Aden. The third river, Hiddekel, is the Tigris, which has its course in the front () of Assur (= Persia), speaking from the writer’s point of view in Palestine. Some explain the difficulty of finding the courses of the rivers by supposing that since the Deluge these rivers have either ceased to exist, entirely or in part, or have found subterranean outlets. Indeed, the compiler of the Midrash ha-Gadol expresses himself as follows: “Eden is a certain place on earth, but no creature knows where it is, and the Holy One, blessed be He! will only reveal to Israel the way to it in the days of the king Messiah” (Midr. ha-Gadol, ed. Schechter, col. 75).
Read more: jewishencyclopedia.com/view.jsp?artid=39&letter=E&search=eden#ixzz0af9FLLCC
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