EDITED: Eucharist for [disturbed persons]?

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InspiritCarol

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A while back a very disturbed woman glommed on to our church.
In the interest of charity (she seemed harmless in her delusions) we made room for her.
As time has passed though, it has become abundantly clear that, though this woman espouses Catholicism, she is very disordered in what she perceives Catholicism to be.

To get to the point; a voice in her head that she calls “god” tells her to do things; calls her his “Prophet”; etc. Our pastor has communication problems; so so others have tried to gently share with her CCC 65-73; our retired priest responded to one of her predictions that the voice she was listening to was from the devil and she must not listen to it. She avoids him now but still receives the Communion.

Mind you, no-one thinks she’s possessed; she’s just very, very sick and pathetic.

It was due to this obvious illness that it never occurred to any of us to prevent her from receiving Communion. I recently found out that she has been going around town telling everyone that’s open or doing anything on Sunday that they are “going to hell”. Last Sunday she “predicted” my death because I moved the piano back away from the altar where “god” had told her to move it. She sent me a very threatening email wherein (among other sick things) she glories in the death of a child when someone else “came against god’s church” aka her.

I got a temporary stalking order after she came at me and will follow through on obtaining the permanent one. This brings me to my dilemma.

Several parishioners who have a misplaced sympathy for this sick woman; think I am being cruel in that by obtaining this stalking order; since there’s only one Mass at this little Mission, I am effectively cutting the poor crazy lady off from the sacraments she loves so well.

At first, I started trying to formulate ways for her to receive outside of Mass here; but then it occurred to me that perhaps she should have been cut off from communion long ago.

More succinctly: can a clearly deranged/mentally incapacitated person receive the Eucharist; despite publicly positing anti-Catholic claims as being not only very Catholic, but straight from God; and despite going directly against the ministers in the Church?
 
I have no idea. Do you know what kind of teaching in the faith she has received? Is she actually baptized? Just being crazy doesn’t mean you can’t receive the Eucharist if you are actually Catholic. Her mental state would potentially mitigate her culpability for any sins. However, if she is actually dangerous, if may be to her benefit for the authorities to recognize that and hopefully get her the medical help she needs whatever her faith.

If she is not actually Catholic, it is better that she not receive the Echarist until she is properly received into the church. In the meantime, she may be better off in another faith community - particularly if they have the means to get her the help she needs.
 
This is entirely NOT your concern. The sacraments are the realm of the priest, not laity. Basically, butt out.

Regarding your safety, you do what you think necessary. Regarding whether or not she receives the sacraments-- NOT your business.
 
InspiritCarol said:
A while back a very disturbed woman glommed on to our church.
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My best advice to you is to: 1. involve law enforcement whenever this women makes any real threats against you, in person or via email; and 2. leave her sacramental life to her and her priest. It’s not anyone else’s purview.

Luna
 
Try to understand that mental illness is an just that, an illness. [edited] Pray for her, and if appropriate seek healthcare for her.
 
1ke said:
This is entirely NOT your concern. The sacraments are the realm of the priest, not laity. Basically, butt out.

Regarding your safety, you do what you think necessary. Regarding whether or not she receives the sacraments-- NOT your business.
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Ah - I so COMPLETELY agree with you.

Problem: we have a wonderful priest that does his best with what he has … but his English is awful … and let’s just leave it at that.

You see, while I am not saying: do not receive. Because she threatened my life and my family; the law is absolutely on my side. The way a “stalking order” works is she can not come within sight of me or she goes to jail (where she’ll get help). - So by my very presence at the only Mass, she can not come.

Some, who are not entirely informed, **think I am sinning by indirectly preventing her reception of the Eucharist.

I am taking this part as a lesson in humility. I can not tell all as it would be spreading poison and turn into gossip (though she has no hesitation about this).

I am *not *sinning by protecting my family (and the rest of the congregation if they only knew). I only wondered if the mere fact that she considers herself on par with Isaiah and is teaching falsehoods about the Catholic Church openly and publicly would make it so that she should not receive Communion de facto; regardless of her clear disassociation with reality.

I am trying very hard to be kind about the Pastor’s inability to handle this. It is very disappointing.

Thanks for prayers. (BTW).
 
asd72 said:
Try to understand that mental illness is an just that, an illness. [edited] Pray for her, and if appropriate seek healthcare for her.
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[edited]

The issue is the public nature of her “ministry”.
She goes door to door in town telling people “truths” about the Catholic Church and her role as “God’s Prophet”. She thinks the Virgin Mary appears to her, tells her things which she then reports to all who will listen.

Is this not far more egregious than being …say… openly homosexual and attempting to receive Communion?

Yes it is, but I think the fact that she is mentally disturbed removes any culpability on her part, however, is the Pastor to step up to the plate on this; or is the Eucharist just something for anyone to receive if they think they are worthy?

Just wondering if anyone had encountered this sort of thing before.

The police explained to me that the only way to get her healthcare is for her to defy the “stalking order”.

-Prayers appreciated-
 
InspiritCarol said:
You see, while I am not saying: do not receive. Because she threatened my life and my family; the law is absolutely on my side. The way a “stalking order” works is she can not come within sight of me or she goes to jail (where she’ll get help). - So by my very presence at the only Mass, she can not come.
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the way it works is you have to tell the police she was at Mass,otherwise unless you have a cop stationed at your parish they would not know.
 
april32010 said:
the way it works is you have to tell the police she was at Mass,otherwise unless you have a cop stationed at your parish they would not know.
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She wants me dead and has brought a large knife to Mass. I have a stack of threatening emails. She threatened the church to the police that responded last week.

Again - not stable - very dangerous- has it in for me. There is no way on Earth I wouldn’t call the police in this small town, but they are, in fact, poised to respond to this very real threat on Sunday. She has become a town pariah all in the name of “Catholicism”.
 
[edited]

I’m just a bit stressed over this.

To add to that, a very dear friend of mine once told me that there are two kinds of people in this world: crazy and boring.

She emphatically added that I was not boring.

This chick makes being a little quirky no fun anymore. She’s the real deal and I am afraid; getting no help from my Pastor; and feeling a bit martyred because I’m not telling the town how very scary she is.
 
For example, she got a key to the church. She’d find out when I was going to be there, show up early let herself in and sit and stare at me while I tried to prepare.

I was told to just ignore her.

She called me multiple times a day to tell me how I was letting God down and sent me emails about how she would never stop bothering me and even more disturbing things.

I shared all these with the pastor. They are poison and not to be shared with the general public. … I was told to delete the emails and ignore her.

I thank God that I did not delete my evidence of her obsession.

…

It hurts so much that any in the congregation would plead on her behalf.
 
Have you thought of contacting Social Services or try to find out if she has any relatives that can be called (not you personally but perhaps someone in the parish). We had a woman or was mentally disturbed in our parish and the Outreach coordinator called the police and social service and one day they came and forcibly took her to the hospital psych ward for observation then got in touch with a relative out of state and had her sent there.

She is mentally ill and needs help and no amount of ignoring is going to help her. Neither is a restraining order. If the pastor is doing nothing to protect his parishioners then contact the diocese. Forget about the question as to whether or not she should receive communion, the question is does this woman need mental health services.
 
Your Diocese should be involved in this matter. When a restraining order keeps someone from Mass, the Canon Lawyer at your Diocese is supposed to be involved to make sure that everyone is abiding by the law of the Church.
 
[edited] certainly sick. Ministering to the sick is an important spiritual work of mercy. It is not for you to condemn her as a crazy heretic. Your Christian duty is to ensure that she receives the medical treatment she needs. Discuss it with your priest - he is supposed to have had training in dealing with sick people.
 
Luvtosew said:
Just wondering how she got your email and telephone number.🙂
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🤷
Most people actively involved with parish ministries have their contact info listed in the bulletins…I would imagine that’s where this woman obtained that info. A parish directory tends to have home addresses listed, too.
 
If she’s mentally unstable and threatening you (which is obvious she is, hence the restraining order), see if local law enforcement can’t pick her up (as a danger to you and herself) and have her put in a 72-hour hold for mental evaluation at the hospital. She can get started on the help she obviously needs, a Eucharistic Minister or Catholic Chaplain can bring her the Eucharist that others think she’s denied of because of you, and hopefully she can get put into a long-term place to get some help!
 
InspiritCarol: I am concerned for your safety! Is there any other Mass you and your family could go to? Other than that I would think anyone in your town would recognize her as insane. I wouldn’t worry about whether she should be receiving the Eucharist or not, just try to stay out of her path.:twocents:
 
InspiritCarol said:
A
More succinctly: can a clearly deranged/mentally incapacitated person receive the Eucharist; despite publicly positing anti-Catholic claims as being not only very Catholic, but straight from God; and despite going directly against the ministers in the Church?
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you don’t say if you are the priest in this case. He and he alone decides who receives communion. Period. Personally I think you are doing the greatest kindness toward this person because you have taken an action that may get her some badly needed help. Enabling is not charity and that is what the other misguided people are doing.
 
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