EDITED: Liturgy and the Sacraments: Translations and languages

[Loewinsohn]

Hi:

Now that a revised English version of the Mass has been established, I wonder if there are other language versions being prepared. If so, is the Latin version going to be revised also? With respect to the pre-vatican 2 Latin version (with its well made translations into many languages), is it going to remain sidelined?

Respectfully,
Ernest

 

[YoungTradCath]

Hi:

Now that a revised English version of the Mass has been established, I wonder if there are other language versions being prepared. If so, is the Latin version going to be revised also? With respect to the pre-vatican 2 Latin version (with its well made translations into many languages), is it going to remain sidelined?

Respectfully,
Ernest

The other languages are getting new translations, yes. However, the other languages’ new translations are not going to be as drastic as is the new English translation, because other languages mostly “got it right the first time,” so to speak. Their new translations will be very similar to their current translations. Only the English was markedly different from the original Latin from which it came; the other languages’ translations have been very similar to the Latin from the start. We were the only different ones.

No, the Latin is not going to be revised. The Latin is where we got our new translation from in the first place. A group of people took the Latin original and translated it into English. You don’t change the Latin based off of translations, you change translations based off of the Latin. The Latin, in fact, has remained quite constant for 440 years or so, since the pre-Vatican II mass came out in 1570.

For example, the Latin Gloria before Vatican II and after Vatican II is exactly the same. The same can be said for the Kyrie (which is actually Greek), the Nicene Creed, the Pater Noster, the Sanctus, and the Agnus Dei. Also, the Roman Canon (First Eucharistic Prayer) in Latin is exactly the same (except for the addition of Joseph to the little litany of saints).

 

[Digitonomy]

No, the Latin is not going to be revised.

Actually, the Latin was revised (although minimally), and it was the promulgation of this Latin third typical edition of the novus ordo missal that provided the opportunity to overhaul the English, for the English third edition.

 

[PrayForMeStJude]

Actually, the Latin was revised (although minimally), and it was the promulgation of this Latin third typical edition of the novus ordo missal that provided the opportunity to overhaul the English, for the English third edition.

Yes, that is actually why the new translation was so delayed. The Vatican told the English speaking bishops to wait for the third addition of the missal. Technically, our new translation is the first time the third edition was translated, NOT a revision of past translations.

 

[YoungTradCath]

Actually, the Latin was revised (although minimally), and it was the promulgation of this Latin third typical edition of the novus ordo missal that provided the opportunity to overhaul the English, for the English third edition.

I meant that in the most general way. The changes were so minimal that I just didn’t mention them. I know the release of the editio typica tertia is what forced a new missal to be translated, but I didn’t want to get all technical.

 

[JGMendes4049]

Also, the Roman Canon (First Eucharistic Prayer) in Latin is exactly the same (except for the addition of Joseph to the little litany of saints).

Joseph was added to the Canon by John XXIII, so it too was the same pre– and post–Vatican II.

 

[puzzleannie]

Hi:

Now that a revised English version of the Mass has been established, I wonder if there are other language versions being prepared. If

the Latin does not need to change, it is the official version, The English version was changed to bring it in line with the Latin. The reason this is so important is that many translations into other non-Western languages are made from the English (because it is easier to find translators who know English and the new language, than those who know Latin and the new language). So it is critical that the English be correct. Other translations into Western languages are closer to the Latin and will not change,.

 

[Digitonomy]

Other translations into Western languages are closer to the Latin and will not change,.

Hmmm… I’m not sure that’s entirely true. Here is a paragraph from February at the German Liturgical Institute website, in Google-mangled translation:

The Catholic International Press Agency kipa based in Freiburg (Switzerland) reported on 02.21.2011 to:

"Reservations from Germany
The new German missal texts are to be governed by the will of the German bishops did not differ significantly from the previously existing texts. The chairman of the German Bishops Conference, Archbishop Robert Zollitsch, said last fall, the previous texts were enough already the Roman demands for an authentic translation of the Latin texts.
The bishops are opposed, the change in the priests and faithful liturgical texts approved without a fundamental need through new translations and jeopardizing their acceptance in the communities. This also applies to the words in the conversion. Here are the German bishops that the theologically correct statement would maintain “for all” and not by the horizontal version is closer to the Latin text is replaced by “for many.”

Here is an interview with a Swiss liturgical expert from the same site in March.
And here is a news brief from that site also in March:

Once we are in the last autumn General Assembly with the Ordinary Mass - a central part of the Missal - have engaged us now the archbishop of Cologne, Cardinal Joachim Meisner, president of the competent Episcopal Commission Ecclesia celebrans and Chairman of the Liturgical Commission of the progress Work on the Roman Missal of 2002 informed. For their latest draft translation of the Missal, the Commission has sought since last autumn when the bishops in the German language area suggestions and proposals for further processing. Now the next step is to review all of the draft texts are verified coherently. The aim is that the future German missal given a form which is in the German style appealing and suitable for liturgical use. According to the Vatican instruction Liturgiam Authenticam - - Only when these works are finalized, we will make all parts of the Missal for a total approval. This includes the texts with which we’ve already dealt with in previous Assemblies (“the basic order of the Roman Missal” and “Ordinary Mass”).

Meanwhile, the Francophones are apparently hard at work as well:

The art of celebrating the Mass is the official translation of the new edition authentic overview of the Roman Missal (Institutio Generalis Romani Missale), published in Latin in 2002. This document is the introduction to the third typical edition of the Roman Missal which translation is being prepared …

Likewise, in Spain the same process is occurring:

This important criterion, together with the 2002 publication of the third edition of “typical” Latin of the Roman Missal, made in practice, is to abandon the idea of a mere review and will consider the advisability of a new official release Missal in Spanish using the guidelines and standards Liturgiam Authenticam Instruction…

Thus, in the Plenary Assembly XCV (April 2010), after explaining to members of the EEC the work printed in a large dossier offering concrete examples of the amendments accepted, CEL called the vote required by the text set Instruction “Liturgiam Authenticam” as a prelude to sending the text to the Congregation for the mandatory “recognitio” this being approved. But for its part, had notified the CCDDS dated September 27, 2006 and October 17 of that year above decisions concerning the Eucharistic epiclesis formulations, to the cheers after the consecration and the words of the consecration of Chalice, “which will appear in the next translation of the Roman Missal.” Terrible loss for many, the debate “pro multis” “pro omnia.”

From the Spanish Bishops’ Conference website itself, this brief statement from April 2010, which I left in Spanish because I found it interesting that they called it the Castillian version:

El obispo de León y Presidente de la Comisión Episcopal de Liturgia, Mons. D. Julián López Martín, ha presentado la versión castellana de la “III Edición Típica Latina Emendata” del Misal Romano, que ha obtenido la aprobación de conjunto. La Comisión de Liturgia ha quedado comprometida a la inclusión de las observaciones hechas desde la última Asamblea Plenaria.

 

[ProVobis]

Now that a revised English version of the Mass has been established, I wonder if there are other language versions being prepared.

I understand the Italian bishops have voted not to change the per tutti (“for all”) in the Italian translation.

 

[YoungTradCath]

I understand the Italian bishops have voted not to change the per tutti (“for all”) in the Italian translation.

Because the competent Congregation only asked the bishops’ conferences to translate “pro multis” more correctly. It did not demand it. And until it does, there will be conferences which will not oblige the pleasantries.

 

[PrayForMeStJude]

I understand the Italian bishops have voted not to change the per tutti (“for all”) in the Italian translation.

Because the competent Congregation only asked the bishops’ conferences to translate “pro multis” more correctly. It did not demand it. And until it does, there will be conferences which will not oblige the pleasantries.

Too bad for them only one Italian bishop really counts…

 

[YoungTradCath]

Too bad for them only one Italian bishop really counts…

Lol.

 

[ProVobis]

With respect to the pre-vatican 2 Latin version (with its well made translations into many languages), is it going to remain sidelined?

If your question is whether the Latin version can be used in the Mass, the answer is that Latin can be substituted for the vernacular, in part or entirely. The Vatican has always made that clear; in fact it has encouraged Jubilate Deo “to achieve unity and spiritual harmony with their brothers and with the living tradition of the pastunity.”

adoremus.org/JubilateDeo.html

 

[PrayForMeStJude]

If your question is whether the Latin version can be used in the Mass, the answer is that Latin can be substituted for the vernacular, in part or entirely. The Vatican has always made that clear; in fact it has encouraged Jubilate Deo “to achieve unity and spiritual harmony with their brothers and with the living tradition of the pastunity.”

adoremus.org/JubilateDeo.html

I think it would be more accurate to say that the vernacular can be substituted for Latin, as Latin remains the official language of the liturgy.