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ProVobis
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“Friends” of the FSSPX inter alias.
EDITED: "Only Mass that counts is one intended for specific Sunday/HDO" is wrong
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tee_eff_em
Guest
So, for those who propose that Sunday begins on Saturday evening:
Does that mean that one may satisfy the obligation to assist at Mass either on the day itself (Saturday evening through Sunday 2400 hours), or the evening of the preceding day – Which would be … Friday evening???
tee
Does that mean that one may satisfy the obligation to assist at Mass either on the day itself (Saturday evening through Sunday 2400 hours), or the evening of the preceding day – Which would be … Friday evening???
tee
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ProVobis
Guest
Quae dies, dominici aut solis? Solis dies non est sabbatum.
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Vico
Guest
The Sunday itself is midnight to midnight. The previous day (from Saturday afternoon per the 1983 canon law) is allowed for fulfillment of the Sunday obligation. The celebration of the Sunday begins earlier than the Sunday itself.
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tee_eff_em
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That is the interpretation that I agree with*. But some seem to say that, according to *Dies Domini *of Pope St John Paul II, *Sunday * is a longer-than-24-hour-day, beginning with First Vespers.
tee
(* But I Am Not A Canon Lawyer)
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Vico
Guest
Yes, I am familiar with that and have encountered those that object to the English translation, but themselves do not translate it correctly. That document refers to Mass of Sunday celebrated on the day before. It is very clear in the Liturgical norms also that the liturgical day is midnight to midnight. Canons use midnight to midnight, and this allows for a normal understand of the day which may be 23, 24, or 25 hours long (approx: ignoring any leap seconds.)
Notice that the obligation for a holy day is fulfilled even when the celebration has not the readings of the holy day being fulfilled.
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ProVobis
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My interpretation FWIW:
Sabbatum -------------------------------------------> Dies Solis-(Dies festus) -------------------->
Sabbatum ------------------------->Dies Dominici * --------------------------------------------------->
You think this is hard? Read Newton’s Philosophiæ Naturalis Principia Mathematica
Sabbatum -------------------------------------------> Dies Solis-(Dies festus) -------------------->
Sabbatum ------------------------->Dies Dominici * --------------------------------------------------->
- per JPII … “Dies Dominici” = “Vespere diei” + “Ipso diei festo”
You think this is hard? Read Newton’s Philosophiæ Naturalis Principia Mathematica
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edward_george
Guest
Again, the encyclical of St. John Paul II “Dies Domini” is not a legislative document, unless you are referring to something else. In this event, please give a link to the document you’re talking about.My interpretation FWIW:
Sabbatum -------------------------------------------> Dies Solis-(Dies festus) -------------------->
Sabbatum ------------------------->Dies Dominici * --------------------------------------------------->
Can. 1248 — § 1. Praecepto de Missa participanda satisfacit qui Missae assistit ubicumque celebratur ritu catholico vel ipso die festo vel vespere diei praecedentis.
- per JPII … “Dies Dominici” = “Vespere diei” + “Ipso diei festo”
You think this is hard? Read Newton’s Philosophiæ Naturalis Principia Mathematica
A day is a day is a day. A day is a 24-hour period from midnight to midnight.
A liturgical celebration of a solemnity (including a Sunday) begins on the evening of the previous day with I Vespers. One may fulfill his obligation to attend Mass, as you rightfully quote, on the day itself or the evening of the previous day. If we did not think a day was a day was a day, we couldn’t say “the evening of the previous day” when referring to this obligation.
-ACEGC
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ProVobis
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if it matters, it’s an apostolic letter, but in any case, the Pope is the supreme interpreter of Canon Law. Fr David contends (and I agree with him), the English translator did the letter some injustice.
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=8902085&highlight=english+dominici#post8902085
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=11633175&highlight=english+dominici#post11633175
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=11821983&highlight=english+dominici#post11821983
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=11939135&highlight=english+dominici#post11939135
Personally I wish Catholics would stop calling it Sunday. The first day of the week should be called after the Lord (as it is in many other languages) and not after some pagan god. And that’s all I’m going to say on this thread.
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pnewton
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I never knew that this was ever an issue. The idea of misinformation boggles me. I mean who goes around telling others which Mass they should attend? I am afraid that if someone tried to tell me which Mass I could or could not go to in order to satisfy my obligation I would find so much humor in the inanity of the situation as to be rude.
One of my favorite lines in Scripture, from a sitcom point of view is in John 21 where after the resurrection Jesus it telling Peter what his life holds. Peter point at John and asks about him. Jesus asks him, “What’s it to you?” I have to think if we could see Jesus shake his head when we start fussing over others spiritual journey, he might tell us the same thing.
One of my favorite lines in Scripture, from a sitcom point of view is in John 21 where after the resurrection Jesus it telling Peter what his life holds. Peter point at John and asks about him. Jesus asks him, “What’s it to you?” I have to think if we could see Jesus shake his head when we start fussing over others spiritual journey, he might tell us the same thing.
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Vico
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However,
Propterea Missae liturgia nonnumquam “praefestivae” appellatae, quae vero reapse pleno iure “festiva” est, dominici diei est,…
translates to:
Because of this, the Mass liturgy sometimes is called “prefestive,” which however, really it is a full right “fest,” it is of the Lord’s day, …
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