EDITED TITLE: Do Catholics Really Worship Mary?

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The first link you posted says that Mary was entrusted to John at the cruxifiction.an earlier poster claimed that Mary was becoming the mother of us all at that point.so,which is it?
Both, in the literal sense of Scripture, it was John, but in the spiritual sense of Scripture, SAINT John represented all of us @ the foot of the Cross.

As catholic, we have what is known as the Four Senses of Scripture

Literal: what the human author intended
Analogical: how it pertains to Christ
Anagodical: how it pertains to the Church
moral: how it pertains to us, Christians, living today

you can read more about it here
 
I suppose we can bestow honor and glory on whomever we decide,but my burning question is why is Mary seen as being worthy of worship/prayer?I do praise her for her part in Gods plan.I do not see a scriptural basis for attempting to call on her for intercession.inThe Bible ,Jesus is identified as our High Priest and Mediator,and our Passover as well.and when God sought human intercession,He ‘looked for a man who would stand in the gap’.I believe He expects intercession to come from us for each other.but we have to go to Jesus as mediator.
recall Job 42:7-11
And after the Lord had spoken these words to Job, he said to Eliphaz the Themanite : My wrath is kindled against thee, and against thy two friends, because you have not spoken the thing that is right before my, as my servant Job hath.
Take unto you therefore seven oxen, and seven rams, and go to my servant Job, and offer for yourselves a holocaust : and my servant Job shall pray for you : his face I will accept, that folly be not imputed to you : for you have not spoken right things before me, as my servant Job hath.
So Eliphaz the Themanite, and Baldad the Suhite, and Sophar the Naamathite went, and did as the Lord had spoken to them, and the Lord accepted the face of Job.
The Lord also was turned at the penance of Job, when he prayed for his friends. And the Lord gave Job twice as much as he had before.
And all his brethren came to him, and all his sisters, and all that knew him before, and they ate bread with him in his house : and bemoaned him, and comforted him upon all the evil that God had brought upon him. And every man gave him one ewe, and one earring of fold
 
I suppose we can bestow honor and glory on whomever we decide,but my burning question is why is Mary seen as being worthy of worship/prayer?I do praise her for her part in Gods plan.I do not see a scriptural basis for attempting to call on her for intercession.inThe Bible ,Jesus is identified as our High Priest and Mediator,and our Passover as well.and when God sought human intercession,He ‘looked for a man who would stand in the gap’.I believe He expects intercession to come from us for each other.but we have to go to Jesus as mediator.
Tcelt7,

Please, Tcelt7, as been stated over and over on these threads, Catholics do NOT worship the Blessed Virgin. Again, if you do not understand this, well o.k., but please do not say that Catholics worship her. That would be blasphemy. Please respect the Catholic position on this matter.

Having said that, Catholic theology on the Incarnation of the Word of God is a very deep subject, something that non-Catholics have a very hard time understanding because it is not part of their faith tradition. It’s no slam on you, it’s just the way it is. Suffice it to say, if you REALLY want answers to questions, from the Catholic perspective, you have to start with the fact the Mary is the Mother of God.

Tomster

Do not be afraid, speak out, and refuse to be silenced; I am with thee, and none shall come near to do thee harm; I have a great following in this city. Acts 18: 9-10
 
Hello
can someone out there please give an explanation as to why Mary is seen worthy of worshipping/praying to? just an honest question from a non-catholic…
To use your terminology, why do you claim that Mary is not worthy of worshipping, and not worthy of praying to? We need to understand your exact objections before continuing.
 
Thanks for the reply.why do you believe in asking Mary to intercede for you?does the Bible say that Mary is the “queen of saints and angels”? the adoration of Mary…i can understand that,but not the intercession…
I think you need to clear up one thing first.

Do you, as a protestant, ever ask another person (living) to pray for or with you?

If the answer is no then no explanation given by Catholics will make sense to you.

However, if the answer is yes. Then the understanding should be simple. Its the same thing.

I assume if you were to ask someone to pray for/with you it would be someone you respected. Same thing. Catholics greatly respect Mary because of who she is and her special relationship with Jesus.

The only difference might be is that Catholics believe that humans can still pray for/with you even after they have left this earth. We believe God bestows on all saints (all those who go to heaven) with the ability to “hear” prayers of those still living on earth and continue to pray to God.
 
Hello
can someone out there please give an explanation as to why Mary is seen worthy of worshipping/praying to? just an honest question from a non-catholic…
We do not worship Mary.

Mary is the mother of Christ. Christ honored his mother. We honor her too.
 
Tcelt7,

I realize this is not exactly a consistent source of coherent Catholic teaching for you and that you seem to be honestly asking your questions.

I have a source that might help.

This MP3 Bible study on The Communion of Saints by my friend John Martignoni is very good. The notes are here, so you can follow along and even print them up.

In this case your questions seem to overlap this topic and the Blessed Virgin, so you might want to give this one a listen as well. The notes for it are here. Please feel free to PM or e-mail me through CAF with any questions you have after checking them out. I’ll be happy to discuss them with you. I know you are used to Bible studies and this may be exactly what you are looking for.
Pax tecum,
 
I think you need to clear up one thing first.

Do you, as a protestant, ever ask another person (living) to pray for or with you?

If the answer is no then no explanation given by Catholics will make sense to you.

However, if the answer is yes. Then the understanding should be simple. Its the same thing.

I assume if you were to ask someone to pray for/with you it would be someone you respected. Same thing. Catholics greatly respect Mary because of who she is and her special relationship with Jesus.

The only difference might be is that Catholics believe that humans can still pray for/with you even after they have left this earth. We believe God bestows on all saints (all those who go to heaven) with the ability to “hear” prayers of those still living on earth and continue to pray to God.
O.K. I suppose it can’t be proven that those in Heaven can not join with us on earth in a prayer,however,I believe it is a matter of who has the God given authority to occupy here.Jesus was addressing people around Him when He spoke on the prayer of agreement.I’m not out to slam anybody,and I apologise to any I have offended.you call Mary ‘the Mother of God’.that is the Catholic perspective,I suppose.I call Mary the Mother of Jesus.but the Bible never relates anything about God hearing from those in Heaven.it relates Him dealing with those still here on Earth.if you say you don’t worship her,I accept what you say.
I have another question for another thread concerning the priesthood...
 
Catholics worship Mary
No We don’t
Yes you do
No We don’t
Yes you do…etc.

That accusation can be easily flattened.

Catholics love Mary as a human being, as a mother. They feel quite free to “call her blessed” (Luke 1.48) with a “loud voice,” (Luke 1.41), just as the Holy Spirit instructed (same passage).

For those who say Mary is dead and can’t hear it, I have some words straight from the mouth of Jesus–“God is God of the Living, NOT of the Dead.”

If Moses and Elijah put in an appearance on Mount Tabor and chatted with Jesus about his ministry (as Scripture records), then I’d highly posit that these men were “in the know” through God’s power and not “dead.” Moreover, if the martyrs beneath the altar in the book of Revelation (6:9-11) are appealing to God about things going on across the earth and asking God when he was going to take action, then I’d highly posit that they are NOT dead, either.

Really: to “worship” Mary would require that the intellect makes a firm decision to believe that Mary is Divine or that she created the world. Even the most uneducated catholic, I believe, does not make that kind of intellectual decision. Thus, Mary cannot be worshipped unless a person claims, with full intellect, that she is divine. Case closed.

Otherwise, Mary is loved and appreciated with the same sort of devotion one renders to one’s own beloved mother, for example. Jesus doesn’t get “jealous” or “green with envy” when we “love” our own mothers. There’s no passage in Scripture that forbids us to “love” his own Mother, who was explicitly given to christians as their own mother, as well.

Protestants often make the grave mistake of treating Mary as if she were a mere “vessel” – which is the same thing as saying she was a Petrie Dish that God used and threw away. They also often make the mistake of believing that God “woke-up” one day, yawned, decided it was time to “send his Son to earth,” and then started looking, at random, for the proper “gal” to serve as a temporary incubator.

It is written that God knows each of us from the very moment of conception…“from the womb”…and that God has a plan and mission for each of us and prepares us according to our free will and cooperation with his grace.

God didn’t just “pick” Mary out of some Galileean “line-up.” She was destined, prepared, and graced to be the MOTHER of the Divine Word. Not a temporary “holding-tank.” She gave human nature to the utter, omnipotent “DIVINE,” according to her free will, faith, and cooperation–even to the point of possibly losing her own life, her husband, and her entire world.

Mary’s faith was the ‘contact point’ for the greatest event that ever happened in this universe or any other, the greatest miracle in that thing we humans call “time”-- the Divine becomes part of matter, part of the material “existence.” It gives me the shivers simply to think about the astonishing, mind-blowing reality of it. And Protestant literalists so often toss Mary aside the way they foolishly think that God “tossed her aside” after demanding temporary use of her reproductive organs.

She raised him. Educated him. Nursed him. Shared her own faith with him. LIVED with Jesus for 30 years as mother first in faith, and THEN in flesh. Her grace (given lavishly by God: Luke 1.28) and her free response to that saving grace, made it possible for all of humanity (and creation) to be redeemed by Jesus. It was the greatest “collaborative effort” that could ever possibly be effected or even imagined, through all ages, all times, all places, all possibilities.

Also, if Protestants want to bully Catholics for having sacred artwork, then they had best be prepared to throw their Bibles into the garbage cans. Why? Because every single letter, on every single page, in every single Bible in the world, is an IMAGE. It’s created “material” of ink, made by human beings. Every letter. Do these letter-images convey truth and inspiration? Yes. Just as sacred art does. Protestants should also be ready to throw-out all of their family photo-albums and cherished “films.” All are images.
 
Please, fellow Catholics. I’ve tried to explain this before: simply switching the word “veneration” for “worship” isn’t going to convince the Protestants. That’s a deceptive tactic that just switches one word for another. The important thing is to discuss the difference between what we give God and what we give Mary, (ie, the differences between latria and [hyper]dulia). “Worship” is just a word, and replacing it with “venerate” is just a word game. The important thing is what we MEAN by it.
On one level I’m right there with you. The problem with coming right out and admitting we worship and pray to any Saint is that most Protestants either cannot, or refuse to recognize that what they consider to be ironclad definitions of “prayer” and “worship” are in reality merely the connotations which they have attributed to those terms. Worship in Protestantism has, for the most part, developed into a purely spiritual (i.e. non-physical) act. For them the highest form of worship is prayer. Because of this lack of physicality in worship, Pentecostalism is becoming more and more popular, as well as (sometimes) raucous worship music and choruses even in the more conservative Protestant churches. They innately recognize that true worship of God involves not just our intellect or our spirit but our physical bodies as well. Something we as Catholics not only recognize but happily practice. I visualize the power which the Holy Spirit brings to our worship as being akin to a vast river and the liturgy as the riverbed and banks. In that sense, we as Christians can participate as fully as possible, indeed we immerse ourselves in worship, in that river. But without a liturgy to guide it, that river it becomes a disastrous and destructive flood.
I think I’ve digressed enough. Sorry all. :o

Peace,
+N
 
Catholics worship Mary
No We don’t
Yes you do
No We don’t
Yes you do…etc.

That accusation can be easily flattened.

Catholics love Mary as a human being, as a mother. They feel quite free to “call her blessed” (Luke 1.48) with a “loud voice,” (Luke 1.41), just as the Holy Spirit instructed (same passage).

For those who say Mary is dead and can’t hear it, I have some words straight from the mouth of Jesus–“God is God of the Living, NOT of the Dead.”

If Moses and Elijah put in an appearance on Mount Tabor and chatted with Jesus about his ministry (as Scripture records), then I’d highly posit that these men were “in the know” through God’s power and not “dead.” Moreover, if the martyrs beneath the altar in the book of Revelation (6:9-11) are appealing to God about things going on across the earth and asking God when he was going to take action, then I’d highly posit that they are NOT dead, either.

Really: to “worship” Mary would require that the intellect makes a firm decision to believe that Mary is Divine or that she created the world. Even the most uneducated catholic, I believe, does not make that kind of intellectual decision. Thus, Mary cannot be worshipped unless a person claims, with full intellect, that she is divine. Case closed.

Otherwise, Mary is loved and appreciated with the same sort of devotion one renders to one’s own beloved mother, for example. Jesus doesn’t get “jealous” or “green with envy” when we “love” our own mothers. There’s no passage in Scripture that forbids us to “love” his own Mother, who was explicitly given to christians as their own mother, as well.

Protestants often make the grave mistake of treating Mary as if she were a mere “vessel” – which is the same thing as saying she was a Petrie Dish that God used and threw away. They also often make the mistake of believing that God “woke-up” one day, yawned, decided it was time to “send his Son to earth,” and then started looking, at random, for the proper “gal” to serve as a temporary incubator.

It is written that God knows each of us from the very moment of conception…“from the womb”…and that God has a plan and mission for each of us and prepares us according to our free will and cooperation with his grace.

God didn’t just “pick” Mary out of some Galileean “line-up.” She was destined, prepared, and graced to be the MOTHER of the Divine Word. Not a temporary “holding-tank.” She gave human nature to the utter, omnipotent “DIVINE,” according to her free will, faith, and cooperation–even to the point of possibly losing her own life, her husband, and her entire world.

Mary’s faith was the ‘contact point’ for the greatest event that ever happened in this universe or any other, the greatest miracle in that thing we humans call “time”-- the Divine becomes part of matter, part of the material “existence.” It gives me the shivers simply to think about the astonishing, mind-blowing reality of it. And Protestant literalists so often toss Mary aside the way they foolishly think that God “tossed her aside” after demanding temporary use of her reproductive organs.

She raised him. Educated him. Nursed him. Shared her own faith with him. LIVED with Jesus for 30 years as mother first in faith, and THEN in flesh. Her grace (given lavishly by God: Luke 1.28) and her free response to that saving grace, made it possible for all of humanity (and creation) to be redeemed by Jesus. It was the greatest “collaborative effort” that could ever possibly be effected or even imagined, through all ages, all times, all places, all possibilities.

Also, if Protestants want to bully Catholics for having sacred artwork, then they had best be prepared to throw their Bibles into the garbage cans. Why? Because every single letter, on every single page, in every single Bible in the world, is an IMAGE. It’s created “material” of ink, made by human beings. Every letter. Do these letter-images convey truth and inspiration? Yes. Just as sacred art does. Protestants should also be ready to throw-out all of their family photo-albums and cherished “films.” All are images.
You seem to think you know how all Protestants feel about Mary.you do not,no more than I know the heart of all catholics concerning idol worship,angel worship,Mary worship,ETC…I have NEVER regarded Mary as a ‘petrie dish that God used and threw away’…that is offensive.why are you so defensive and angry?is this a forum or what? as far as artwork,who said anything about that? I happen to love biblical artwork,and have a great sense of respect for the architectual beauty of many catholic churches/cathedrals. if all Catholics were like you,there would probably be even more protestants here in America.
 
Catholics worship Mary
No We don’t
Yes you do
No We don’t
Yes you do…etc.

That accusation can be easily flattened.

Catholics love Mary as a human being, as a mother. They feel quite free to “call her blessed” (Luke 1.48) with a “loud voice,” (Luke 1.41), just as the Holy Spirit instructed (same passage).

For those who say Mary is dead and can’t hear it, I have some words straight from the mouth of Jesus–“God is God of the Living, NOT of the Dead.”

If Moses and Elijah put in an appearance on Mount Tabor and chatted with Jesus about his ministry (as Scripture records), then I’d highly posit that these men were “in the know” through God’s power and not “dead.” Moreover, if the martyrs beneath the altar in the book of Revelation (6:9-11) are appealing to God about things going on across the earth and asking God when he was going to take action, then I’d highly posit that they are NOT dead, either.

Really: to “worship” Mary would require that the intellect makes a firm decision to believe that Mary is Divine or that she created the world. Even the most uneducated catholic, I believe, does not make that kind of intellectual decision. Thus, Mary cannot be worshipped unless a person claims, with full intellect, that she is divine. Case closed.

Otherwise, Mary is loved and appreciated with the same sort of devotion one renders to one’s own beloved mother, for example. Jesus doesn’t get “jealous” or “green with envy” when we “love” our own mothers. There’s no passage in Scripture that forbids us to “love” his own Mother, who was explicitly given to christians as their own mother, as well.

Protestants often make the grave mistake of treating Mary as if she were a mere “vessel” – which is the same thing as saying she was a Petrie Dish that God used and threw away. They also often make the mistake of believing that God “woke-up” one day, yawned, decided it was time to “send his Son to earth,” and then started looking, at random, for the proper “gal” to serve as a temporary incubator.

It is written that God knows each of us from the very moment of conception…“from the womb”…and that God has a plan and mission for each of us and prepares us according to our free will and cooperation with his grace.

God didn’t just “pick” Mary out of some Galileean “line-up.” She was destined, prepared, and graced to be the MOTHER of the Divine Word. Not a temporary “holding-tank.” She gave human nature to the utter, omnipotent “DIVINE,” according to her free will, faith, and cooperation–even to the point of possibly losing her own life, her husband, and her entire world.

Mary’s faith was the ‘contact point’ for the greatest event that ever happened in this universe or any other, the greatest miracle in that thing we humans call “time”-- the Divine becomes part of matter, part of the material “existence.” It gives me the shivers simply to think about the astonishing, mind-blowing reality of it. And Protestant literalists so often toss Mary aside the way they foolishly think that God “tossed her aside” after demanding temporary use of her reproductive organs.

She raised him. Educated him. Nursed him. Shared her own faith with him. LIVED with Jesus for 30 years as mother first in faith, and THEN in flesh. Her grace (given lavishly by God: Luke 1.28) and her free response to that saving grace, made it possible for all of humanity (and creation) to be redeemed by Jesus. It was the greatest “collaborative effort” that could ever possibly be effected or even imagined, through all ages, all times, all places, all possibilities.

Also, if Protestants want to bully Catholics for having sacred artwork, then they had best be prepared to throw their Bibles into the garbage cans. Why? Because every single letter, on every single page, in every single Bible in the world, is an IMAGE. It’s created “material” of ink, made by human beings. Every letter. Do these letter-images convey truth and inspiration? Yes. Just as sacred art does. Protestants should also be ready to throw-out all of their family photo-albums and cherished “films.” All are images.
It would help if you read the original post first and try to address what the person is asking. I believe pretty much everything you say but you make even me nervous.
 
He’s telling the truth. Why should the truth make you nervous?
 
It would help if you read the original post first and try to address what the person is asking. I believe pretty much everything you say but you make even me nervous.
I did read the OP. The implied accusation is that we worship Mary. And there is the implied accusation that prayer is worship as well, which I did not addrress. Nervous?
 
I did read the OP. The implied accusation is that we worship Mary. And there is the implied accusation that prayer is worship as well, which I did not addrress. Nervous?
Nervous, because the tone I got from your response was not consistent with the OP question. The original question was not accusatory but looking for clarification.

Since we don’t worship Mary I think the veracity of your response is counter productive in convincing someone that we don’t. Your point is likely to get lost on the person you are trying to educate.
 
Nervous, because the tone I got from your response was not consistent with the OP question. The original question was not accusatory but looking for clarification.

Since we don’t worship Mary I think the veracity of your response is counter productive in convincing someone that we don’t. Your point is likely to get lost on the person you are trying to educate.
I have posted this treatise a number of times here without one single complaint until now. I have it saved in word doc so I can reproduce it a will. A forum search on “Petrie Dish” will reveal this. No complaints until now. :confused:
 
I have a question:

I personally do not (anymore) pray the rosary because of the hail Marys. I think that most of the prayer is biblical my only concern is “holy Mary Mother of God prayer for us sinners”. I believe she’s a saint absolutely. I believe she is the theotokos (sp?) the Mother of God, but to ask her to prayer for us, can she hear all these people praying? Isn’t that like omniscience being able to hear all those different people at the same time? I have not recieved an answer to this question by anyone yet.

Just a question.
 
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