(Edited Title) Feminist Christians & logic…

[jcrichton]

The Hebrew word for “spirit” (the spirit God moved on the face of the waters…) is ruah, which is feminine. I have no idea about girlie names but it was very clear that the spirit of God was referred to with feminine nouns in Hebrew. Now I don’t know about calling the Holy Spirit Sophia, that seems blasphemous to me…because in French, Spanish and many other languages there are words that are feminine…inanimate objects like table or chair and such (not sure about those but my son assures me that many “objects” are masculine or feminine) and obviously that doesn’t mean the table is a girl. Just because there’s a history in Hebrew of the Spirit of God having a feminine noun to describe it doesn’t mean that the Holy Spirit is female. I stick with what the Church says to call the Triune God and people can keep their annoying inclusive language to themselves.

Lorrie

Hi, Lorrie!

…your son is correct unlike English many languages are gender biased (the noun is either masculine or feminine and its corresponding article must also agree with the gender (la mesa, la silla).

Though it is understood that the Hebrew word for spirit is feminine, when Jesus introduces the Holy Spirit (the other Paraclete) Jesus employs a masculine pronoun–those who are so enlightened and wise that seek to stroke their ego (as they claim the right to refer to God in any term they deem technically correct) forget what happens to those who are wise in the world (1 Corinthians 1:19-25).

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[jcrichton]

Feminist Christians? Isn’t that a contradiction in terms? After all God is a pure spirit, doesn’t have a physical body or gender?

…so does that mean that while Jesus calls the Father …well… Father… and while He uses a masculine pronoun to refer to the other Paraclete… Christians can chose to call the Father and the Holy Spirit by any term they prefer?

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[jcrichton]

How about calling the Holy Spirit, “Holy Spirit”?

…nah… that’s too domestic… wait a few decades when He is being call anything else… then it would be eventful and avant-guard!

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[jcrichton]

that indeed would be my vote! I was just thinking of a way of trying to stop this feminist dead in her tracks on her own bad logic.

…just refer her to Jesus’ take on it (St. John 14, 15, 16)!

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[jcrichton]

Ok, first off God is male, has always been male, and will always be male in origin. He is not called the Heavenly Father for no reason. God is not an essence or an angel, He is a supernatural being.He is not a diety, not a meditation or imagined feminine natured being. God is male. Christ was and is male, therefore the Holy Spirit is male.
You cannot have different sexes assigned to one triune God. If the three are one, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, then they are all male. It makes no sense to assign a feminine soul to Jesus who was God Incarnate and a male. That denies God’s true nature. God cannot and will not deceive or pretend to be something that He is not. God therefore is not female, and should never be assigned a feminine title. The bible states this very clearly, over and over again in Scripture and verse.

Peace to you,

:clapping::clapping::clapping:

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[jcrichton]

Assuming we accept your premise:
Doesn’t that mean that men are automatically more Godly?

…only if you believe that all humans were Created equal but some more equal than others…

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[jcrichton]

I think the problem is the premise is faulty. The Father is male, and Christ is male. That does not meant that God is aligned with males. The Bible says that male and female were both created in God’s image. Not just one or the other. God is neither male nor female, but God. The Holy Spirit IS the love that exists in the Holy Trinity, and has many female attributes. Nothing wrong with acknowledging that and it does not take away from the ‘maleness’ of the Father or the Son.

…as far as God being a spiritual being and having no gender… you are correct.

…as far as female attributes being attributed to God… you are also correct.

But the issue is not what seems technically correct or the many attributes that God has… the issue is that God has Revealed Himself in a Masculine persona… it is Yahweh God, Himself, that Calls Himself the Father of Israel… it is God Himself, the Word, that chose to become Incarnate as a Man… it is the Word, the Light of the world, that sends to us the Paraclete and speaks of Him in the third person singular (He)…

Who will correct God by letting Him know that, technically, He has no right to a Male Gender? :juggle:

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[Irishgal49]

Hi, Lorrie!

…your son is correct unlike English many languages are gender biased (the noun is either masculine or feminine and its corresponding article must also agree with the gender (la mesa, la silla).

Though it is understood that the Hebrew word for spirit is feminine, when Jesus introduces the Holy Spirit (the other Paraclete) Jesus employs a masculine pronoun–those who are so enlightened and wise that seek to stroke their ego (as they claim the right to refer to God in any term they deem technically correct) forget what happens to those who are wise in the world (1 Corinthians 1:19-25).

Maran atha!

Angel

Thank you Angel,

I do know a lot of Hebrew but am not so good with Greek and the New Testament language. It is important to hear how Jesus refers to the Holy Spirit. What He says goes, end of discussion in my book.

 

[AngryAtheist8]

I think the problem is the premise is faulty. The Father is male, and Christ is male. That does not meant that God is aligned with males. The Bible says that male and female were both created in God’s image. Not just one or the other. God is neither male nor female, but God. The Holy Spirit IS the love that exists in the Holy Trinity, and has many female attributes. Nothing wrong with acknowledging that and it does not take away from the ‘maleness’ of the Father or the Son.

Actually it kinda does, at least according to Catholicism.
Only men can be priests, because Jesus was a man.

 

[AngryAtheist8]

Hi, Lorrie!

…your son is correct unlike English many languages are gender biased (the noun is either masculine or feminine and its corresponding article must also agree with the gender (la mesa, la silla).

Though it is understood that the Hebrew word for spirit is feminine, when Jesus introduces the Holy Spirit (the other Paraclete) Jesus employs a masculine pronoun–those who are so enlightened and wise that seek to stroke their ego (as they claim the right to refer to God in any term they deem technically correct) forget what happens to those who are wise in the world (1 Corinthians 1:19-25).

Maran atha!

Angel

So even the Holy Spirit is masculine.
Why am I not surprised?

 

[AngryAtheist8]

…as far as God being a spiritual being and having no gender… you are correct.

…as far as female attributes being attributed to God… you are also correct.

But the issue is not what seems technically correct or the many attributes that God has… the issue is that God has Revealed Himself in a Masculine persona… it is Yahweh God, Himself, that Calls Himself the Father of Israel… it is God Himself, the Word, that chose to become Incarnate as a Man… it is the Word, the Light of the world, that sends to us the Paraclete and speaks of Him in the third person singular (He)…

Who will correct God by letting Him know that, technically, He has no right to a Male Gender? :juggle:

Maran atha!

Angel

The fact of the matter is:

If God is male (or at least masculine),

And

the more like God (the more Godly) you are the better you are

Then based on that logic men are better than women.

This is not a new idea, frankly this concept enjoyed a great deal of acceptance in the West up until recently (when woman gained the social, political, and economic power so that their opinions started to matter, and no one in politcs wanted to be accused of being anti-woman).

I do not accept that idea (frankly I think its stupid) but its more internally consistent than claiming that God is Male, so only Males can be priests (because their more like God) but women are still somehow just as Godly and good.

 

[jcrichton]

Actually it kinda does, at least according to Catholicism.
Only men can be priests, because Jesus was a man.

…well no… because Yahweh God chose males as Priests and Jesus, the Incarnate Word, chose males as His Disciples/Apostles… and the Church, Guided by the Holy Spirit, instituted the various Doctrines and Offices–Bishops, Presbyters, and Deacons were elected only from the male Believer.

Human love to reinvent things in their own image and likeness (you know, like little gods); so it is not surprising that many non-Catholic Christians have followed in the ways of the pagans that existed prior, during and after Christ’s Incarnation; they choice to elect both sexes into the Priesthood was socially and religiously embraced…

…your fight, my friend, is not against the Vatican… it is against God Himself!

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[jcrichton]

So even the Holy Spirit is masculine.
Why am I not surprised?

The question is why aren’t you surprised that confused Believers think that God is made in their image and not the other way around!

If you read the Sacred Scriptures you will know the Truth and the Truth will set you free!

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[jcrichton]

The fact of the matter is:

If God is male (or at least masculine),

And

the more like God (the more Godly) you are the better you are

Then based on that logic men are better than women.

This is not a new idea, frankly this concept enjoyed a great deal of acceptance in the West up until recently (when woman gained the social, political, and economic power so that their opinions started to matter, and no one in politcs wanted to be accused of being anti-woman).

I do not accept that idea (frankly I think its stupid) but its more internally consistent than claiming that God is Male, so only Males can be priests (because their more like God) but women are still somehow just as Godly and good.

…I think that you are mixing two issues… even in cultures where they have a multitude of deities (Roman Empire as an example) females are treated as a lower caste citizen (check Islam, Hindu, and most secular cultures of past and present).

If you are honest and seek the truth, you will find that it was the Catholic Church that fought for human and social rights the world over… and it was the Church who supported the female right to be valued as important as the male counterpart…

God did not institute a male only Priesthood to oppress females… that’s anti-Christian propaganda akin to those “bleeding hearts” that are so concerned for the people that died in the Old Testament times without the benefit of Jesus’ Redemption…

Conversely, hollowood has perpetrated the worse oppression on females since the beginning of time… and the masses just soup it all up…

…your personal struggle is that you believe that there should be equality on everything in order for both sexes to be granted respect… God does not measure our worth by mere human attributes (sex, race, wealth, intellect…); since He is not a respecter of man God will not abide by our exterior pretenses–the Church cannot Teach otherwise!

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[AngryAtheist8]

…well no… because Yahweh God chose males as Priests and Jesus, the Incarnate Word, chose males as His Disciples/Apostles… and the Church, Guided by the Holy Spirit, instituted the various Doctrines and Offices–Bishops, Presbyters, and Deacons were elected only from the male Believer.

Human love to reinvent things in their own image and likeness (you know, like little gods); so it is not surprising that many non-Catholic Christians have followed in the ways of the pagans that existed prior, during and after Christ’s Incarnation; they choice to elect both sexes into the Priesthood was socially and religiously embraced…

…your fight, my friend, is not against the Vatican… it is against God Himself!

Maran atha!

Angel

So you DO believe men are better than women then?

 

[AngryAtheist8]

The question is why aren’t you surprised that confused Believers think that God is made in their image and not the other way around!
If you read the Sacred Scriptures you will know the Truth and the Truth will set you free!

Maran atha!

Angel

Because people have created gods in their own image since the beginning of history perhaps

 

[AngryAtheist8]

…I think that you are mixing two issues… even in cultures where they have a multitude of deities (Roman Empire as an example) females are treated as a lower caste citizen (check Islam, Hindu, and most secular cultures of past and present).

If you are honest and seek the truth, you will find that it was the Catholic Church that fought for human and social rights the world over… and it was the Church who supported the female right to be valued as important as the male counterpart…

God did not institute a male only Priesthood to oppress females… that’s anti-Christian propaganda akin to those “bleeding hearts” that are so concerned for the people that died in the Old Testament times without the benefit of Jesus’ Redemption…

Conversely, hollowood has perpetrated the worse oppression on females since the beginning of time… and the masses just soup it all up…

…your personal struggle is that you believe that there should be equality on everything in order for both sexes to be granted respect… God does not measure our worth by mere human attributes (sex, race, wealth, intellect…); since He is not a respecter of man God will not abide by our exterior pretenses–the Church cannot Teach otherwise!

Maran atha!

Angel

When?
How?

 

[AngryAtheist8]

…I think that you are mixing two issues… even in cultures where they have a multitude of deities (Roman Empire as an example) females are treated as a lower caste citizen (check Islam, Hindu, and most secular cultures of past and present).

If you are honest and seek the truth, you will find that it was the Catholic Church that fought for human and social rights the world over… and it was the Church who supported the female right to be valued as important as the male counterpart…

God did not institute a male only Priesthood to oppress females… that’s anti-Christian propaganda akin to those “bleeding hearts” that are so concerned for the people that died in the Old Testament times without the benefit of Jesus’ Redemption…

Conversely, hollowood has perpetrated the worse oppression on females since the beginning of time… and the masses just soup it all up…

…your personal struggle is that you believe that there should be equality on everything in order for both sexes to be granted respect… God does not measure our worth by mere human attributes (sex, race, wealth, intellect…); since He is not a respecter of man God will not abide by our exterior pretenses–the Church cannot Teach otherwise!

Maran atha!

Angel

If you believe *that *you obviously know little of history (or current events).
There are still places in the world where rape victims are put to death and women are essentially owned by their fathers or husbands (such as the Middle East).

 

[jcrichton]

So you DO believe men are better than women then?

Yes, men are better than women… at certain things; conversely, women are better than men… at certain things; since we were both Created in the image of Yahweh God (and since God does not differentiate on physical appearance/attributes) in Him we find the greatest equalizer: men and women are equal in God’s Mind… so the fact that the sexes have different attributes and abilities does not negate the fact that both, man and woman, enjoy the same indeniable right given to us by the Creator.

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[lucklove]

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