Editor of Minnesota diocesan newspaper wants female ordination

[Catholic29]

by Joseph Young
Visitor Interim Editor

The church should begin seriously discussing the possibility of ordaining women as priests.

Is it a matter of necessity?

No. True, an influx of feminine “fathers” ( I guess we would call them mothers) would make the Eucharist – which we call “the source and summit” of our Catholic faith – more accessible to the Catholic masses.

But no, the church would survive without women priests.

Is it then a matter of justice?

No. Granted, in a world where U.S. presidents rub shoulders with Margaret Thatcher and Condoleezza Rice, our American sense of workplace justice tells us that if a woman can perform a job as well as a man, she should be given the opportunity to do so.

But, of course, the church is not “the world.” It is, indeed, countercultural. It doesn’t cotton to God-forgotten secularism (except in rare instances, such as bingo and pull-tabs). And, it doesn’t feel any great need to be an equal opportunity employer.

So no, Lady Justice will not fling her blindfold aside in disgust if the church does not ordain women (although “Lady Catholic Social Justice” might be tempted to do so).

Why, then, should women who discern a call from God to the priesthood be allowed to answer it?

It is simply a matter of making our church the best church it can be.

The all-male hierarchy, by definition and demographics, can live up to only half its potential. Consider all the feminine wisdom, judgment, expertise and talent that goes untapped, the gifts that languish unopened. Think of the legions of remarkable women who have left the church to become ordained ministers in other Christian denominations.

That is not to say that the church benefits not a whit from women’s gifts. Many women minister and serve in many church roles, including a parish life coordinator in the St. Cloud Diocese (see story on page 3). Still, there is that stained-glass ceiling women bump up against.

In 1994, Pope John Paul II issued an “Apostolic Letter on Reserving Priestly Ordination to Men.” In 1995, Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, now Pope Benedict XVI, echoed that letter, stating “that the church has no authority whatsoever to confer priestly ordination on women.”

The time has come for a few good bishops to question that lack of authority, or at least to get the ball of conversation rolling.

The Catholic Church claims to possess the fullness of the Christian faith. But with priests of only one gender, it is a stained-glass only half-full. And some might say half empty. stcdio.org/visitor/newassets/new_editorial.htm :banghead:

The diocese should can this guy (at least he is Interim), but it is known that many in this diocese dissent from Church teaching, even its bishop has been known to be lax at times.

 

[Lux_et_veritas]

:bigyikes:

When you put this up, I had no idea it was a Catholic newspaper. I thought it was a secular editor.

I would report this, sending a letter to the local Bishop and then to the CDF after you get a reply, or don’t get a reply (could take a few months).

In fact, maybe a whole lot of us should mail the Bishop and CDF. That is the only way this kind of garbage is going to stop. Now that it is on the web and open to the world, I don’t see it as strictly a duty of those in Minnesota.

 

[mosher]

I agree … JPII stated that this matter is closed to discussion.

 

[JKirkLVNV]

When you put this up, I had no idea it was a Catholic newspaper. I thought it was a secular editor.

I would report this, sending a letter to the local Bishop and then to the CDF after you get a reply, or don’t get a reply (could take a few months).

In fact, maybe a whole lot of us should mail the Bishop and CDF. That is the only way this kind of garbage is going to stop. Now that it is on the web and open to the world, I don’t see it as strictly a duty of those in Minnesota.
[/quote]

Unless I am much mistaken, the local ordinary is the sole legal publisher of a local diocesan paper. I should be very surprised if he doesn’t know. Of couse, maybe he thinks all sides should have a hearing. I think that’s a bad idea, but he’s the Bishop.

 

[Lux_et_veritas]

Who is the Bishop of this Diocese that St. Cloud falls into?

I plan to write him and I hope some others disturbed by the dissent in this article will do the same. I’m a lay person with limited knowledge of scavenging Papal and Church documents and I found this in a matter of seconds on the web!

Reference this from Pope John Paul II in the May 22, 1994 :

APOSTOLIC LETTER
ORDINATIO SACERDOTALIS
OF JOHN PAUL II
TO THE BISHOPS OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH
ON RESERVING PRIESTLY ORDINATION
TO MEN ALONE

Wherefore, in order that all doubt may be removed regarding a matter of great importance, a matter which pertains to the Church’s divine constitution itself, in virtue of my ministry of confirming the brethren (cf. Lk 22:32) I declare that the Church has no authority whatsoever to confer priestly ordination on women and that this judgment is to be definitively held by all the Church’s faithful.

Full Text of the Apostolic Letter: vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/apost_letters/documents/hf_jp-ii_apl_22051994_ordinatio-sacerdotalis_en.html

**For anyone wanting to claim that this “teaching” from Pope John Paul II is not infallible, please read this: **

:banghead:

Women’s Ordination: It’s Infallible

*The teaching that the sacrament of holy orders can be conferred only on a baptized male is an infallible teaching of the Catholic faith which has been passed down since the time of Jesus. Of necessity, this has been clearly re-stated in recent documents of the Magisterium. We here present the two most important documents, **Ordinatio Sacerdotalis *and the CDF’s response to a question concerning it, both of which were writter or ordered by Pope John Paul II. For further background we have also included a letter by Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger concerning the CDF reply and the document 1976 CDF document Inter Insignores, which goes into the reasons for a male priesthood.

Full Text here: cin.org/users/james/files/w-ordination.htm

Once again, if someone would please pass along to me the name and address of the Bishop and the name of the Diocese I would be glad to tell him how I felt about the article written by the interim editor of their local Catholic newspaper, found on the world wide web.

 

[CatholicCid]

Lux_et_veritas, after a quick look at the given address… Here is what I found…

The Newspaper is in the Diocese of St. Cloud, MN
The Bishop is Bishop John F. Kinney

Bishop John F. Kinney was appointed the ninth bishop of the Diocese of St. Cloud on May 9, 1995. He was formally installed on July 6, 1995.

The Planning Office is listed
214 Third Avenue South, PO Box 1248
Saint Cloud, MN 56302-1248
(320) 251-2340
Fax: (320) 251-0470\

Here’s their site: stclouddiocese.org/

I couldn’t find an address to write the Bishop at.

I probably will write if as well if one is found.
(Didn’t try google yet)

 

[Kay_Cee]

“Think of the legions of remarkable women who have left the church to become ordained ministers in other Christian denominations.”

Well, I tried. I tried and I tried. But no matter how hard I try, I just can’t think of heretics as remarkable women.

 

[OutinChgoburbs]

<<It is simply a matter of making our church the best church it can be.>> Gee, like the Army?

You know, from that standpoint, it hasn’t helped the Army all that much to have women in combative ranks. I think of the prison situation in Iraq, and that was ultimately headed by a woman who had no combat experience, and really hsould not have been over there in the first place. And as far as Protestant denominations, a female clergy hasn’t helped them all that much. I think of all those Episcopal priest-couples, where both have divorced their former spouses, and set up shop as Mama and Papa Clergy, with a harsh, liberal agenda in their parish.

Maybe this guy would like to join the Army- or even the Protestants.

I know- bad logic. But his editorial has even less logic than my silly little post.

Listen Mr. Young, up there in the Great White North- I like my priests male and celibate. Most people like their priests male and celibate. Perhaps I’ve been singularly lucky, but I can generally find a lot of good in priests who like being priests. Besides, it seems to me to be a male role, this confecting and fathering- which is NOT mothering.

 

[Lux_et_veritas]

“Think of the legions of remarkable women who have left the church to become ordained ministers in other Christian denominations.”

Well, I tried. I tried and I tried. But no matter how hard I try, I just can’t think of heretics as remarkable women.

Oh, I love it!!!

And, a few women always seem to think they are talking for all of us women…NOT!

 

[Lux_et_veritas]

Well, I dont got it at the USCCB.org website under Bishops, then by state. Here it is…

I’m not only writing him, but I will follow up with the CDF.

Diocese of St. Cloud
Most Reverend John F. Kinney
214 Third Avenue, South
P.O. Box 1248
St. Cloud, MN 56302

 

[Lux_et_veritas]

My letter has been sent. :banghead:

Anyone else?

I acknowledged why I was writing from Michigan: Because local newspapers are no longer local when they appear on the world-wide-web.

I also only sent it to him directly, not to the CDF or anyone else.

My reasoning is simple: It would be prudent and charitable to give him a chance to deal with it. He may already be doing that. I don’t see a need to burden the CDF’s workload with something that could be addressed. However, I did express in my letter than a public rallying cry for open dissent deserves a public retraction/correction with an explanation as to how it is wrong.

I went on to say that we need our editors challening US not the Magisterium.

IMHO, it flies in the face of Catholicism to challenge a teaching that has been declared a “deposit of the faith” and “infallible” as shown in the Responsum ad Dubium provided by Cardinal Ratzinger in 1995 when the question was asked. He affirmed it to be infallible. It states:

This teaching requires definitive assent, since, founded on the written Word of God, and from the beginning constantly preserved and applied in the Tradition of the Church, it has been set forth infallibly by the ordinary and universal Magisterium (cf. Second Vatican Council, Dogmatic Constitution on the Church Lumen Gentium 25, 2). Thus, in the present circumstances, the Roman Pontiff, exercising his proper office of confirming the brethren (cf. Lk 22:32), has handed on this same teaching by a formal declaration, explicitly stating what is to be held always, everywhere, and by all, as belonging to the deposit of the faith.

Full text here: cin.org/users/james/files/w-ordination.htm#responsum

 

[Kielbasi]

A lot of Catholics are of this opinion, but it isn’t likely to happen very soon. Pope John Paul was very committed against the ordination of women and Pope Benedict was a John Paul-appointee before his election to the papacy.

I wouldn’t worry about it, newspapers in the American midwest have very little influence on Catholic policies that are made in Rome.

And people are certainly entitled to have incorrect opinions as well as correct ones.

 

[cyprian]

Poorly cathecised Catholics who know nothing about their faith. Truly sad.

 

[Kielbasi]

Poorly cathecised Catholics who know nothing about their faith. Truly sad.

Nothing particularly peculiar to Catholics here, there are plenty of religiously illiterate Baptists and Jews and Mormons and Presbyterians who know nothing of their faiths as well.

 

[Desert_82]

“The Church should begin seriously discussing the ordination of women as priests”

After reading that letter I have another another suggestion the church should seriously consider.

http://www.rotten.com/library/history/inquisition/inquisition2.gif

 

[Kielbasi]

After reading that letter I have another suggest another thing the church should seriously consider.

http://www.rotten.com/library/history/inquisition/inquisition2.gif

If you would want to institute criminal penalties for heresy, you’d have to have Catholicism as the official religion of a state, but the only nation state where Catholicism is the official religion is Vatican City in 2005.

If you want to push forward capital punishment, that is extraordinarily unlikely for heresy or any other offense. John Paul was highly opposed to CP, and Benedict was one of his major appointees. Like the advocates of the ordination of women, you’ll have to wait.

 

[Kielbasi]

After reading that letter I have another suggest another thing the church should seriously consider.

http://www.rotten.com/library/history/inquisition/inquisition2.gif

If you would want to institute criminal penalties for heresy, you’d have to have Catholicism as the official religion of a state, but the only nation state where Catholicism is the official religion is Vatican City in 2005.

If you want to push forward capital punishment, that is extraordinarily unlikely for heresy or any other offense. John Paul was highly opposed to CP, and Benedict was one of his major appointees. Like the advocates of the ordination of women, you’ll have to wait.

 

[mosher]

Kielbasi:

If you would want to institute criminal penalties for heresy, you’d have to have Catholicism as the official religion of a state, but the only nation state where Catholicism is the official religion is Vatican City in 2005.

If you want to push forward capital punishment, that is extraordinarily unlikely for heresy or any other offense. John Paul was highly opposed to CP, and Benedict was one of his major appointees. Like the advocates of the ordination of women, you’ll have to wait.

Lichtenstein is also a Catholic Country … and a few South American countries are. But I agree with St. Thomas on the execution of heretics. I will leave it at that and make people look up what Thomas said if they are interested.

 

[Lux_et_veritas]

Kielbasi:

A lot of Catholics are of this opinion, but it isn’t likely to happen very soon. Pope John Paul was very committed against the ordination of women and Pope Benedict was a John Paul-appointee before his election to the papacy.

I wouldn’t worry about it, newspapers in the American midwest have very little influence on Catholic policies that are made in Rome.

And people are certainly entitled to have incorrect opinions as well as correct ones.

Please read the documents from the Holy See I pasted above for proof of what I state below.

We are talking about a diocesan newspaper, not the New York Times. It’s ok for the New York Times to have such an opinion, but it is not ok for a diocesan newspaper to cry out for dissent.

Why would it be considered dissent? Because it is stated above, in 1995, that** it requires assent**.

We are talking about a church teaching that, in 1995, was declared to be “in the deposit of faith” (Magisterium).

We are talking about a church teaching that, in 1995, was declared infallilble.

It is un-Catholic to stand there on a Sunday, professing the Credo, all the while thumbing one’s nose at the Magisterium, which is what this article does. It challenges a “few good bishops” to go up against the Magisterium. The Holy Spirit does not guide the Bishops to go against the very teaching institution that we profess to believe is guided by the Holy Spirit. Therefore, such behavior is distrustful of the Holy Spirit to guide that insitution.

---

Contrary to what some of our Catholic brethren may think, the Holy Spirit does not require protestors, dissenting editorials, rainbow sashes, or any other such things to move the Catholic Church. It’s high time that Catholics start understanding this and start focusing on letting go of their wants in order to obey the teachings in heart, soul, and mind.

 

[Lux_et_veritas]

Kielbasi:

Nothing particularly peculiar to Catholics here, there are plenty of religiously illiterate Baptists and Jews and Mormons and Presbyterians who know nothing of their faiths as well.

Ignorance by others is no excuse to be ignorant ourselves. Such an attitude belongs to the “Everyone Else is Doing it” doctrine. Or shall I say, “not doing it”.

Maybe if people spent a little less time watching TV there would be just a little more time for prayer and losing that ignorance.

It’s time our church leaders challenge us to “un-busy” our lives so that we have time to learn. We have way too many things going on, half of which are not entirely necessary. There are needs and wants. In our corner of the world we have no idea what it means to simply “need”. Lets pray the good Lord doesn’t decide to teach us the hard way.