C
cyprian
Guest
That’s because their catechesis goes something like this
saved
waiting
saved
saved
not much to know when you don’t know the truth
ONE GOD , ONE LORD, ONE SPIRIT, ONE CHURCH
ONE LITERACY STANDARD
MANY OPINIONS
- Status
saved
waiting
saved
saved
not much to know when you don’t know the truth
ONE GOD , ONE LORD, ONE SPIRIT, ONE CHURCH
ONE LITERACY STANDARD
MANY OPINIONS
D
davy39
Guest
I live in the Toledo, Ohio diocese. In our newspaper, the Catholic Chronicle, the Bishops own brother, who is also a priest, published rants and comments that the Church must ordain women to survive. He said it is now fair and the church is practicing discrimanation against women. I don’t know how they could publish this. It made my blood boil.
A
Anna_Elizabeth
Guest
Bishop Kinney is (and always has been), extremely liberal. Most recently he was the instigator of a Parliamentary mini coup at the bishops’ fall meeting, in which he and a few friends managed to seat Bishop Trautman as head of the liturgy committee. Bishop Trauman is famous as an advocate of inclusive language and freedom from “those people in Rome” telling us how we should worship.
I was under the impression that Catholic periodicals were now (post the America incident), supposed to explain Catholic teaching and not reach for popularity by inviting anti-doctrinal editorials.
Maybe this St. Cloud house organ is no longer considered a Catholic periodical!
Anna
I was under the impression that Catholic periodicals were now (post the America incident), supposed to explain Catholic teaching and not reach for popularity by inviting anti-doctrinal editorials.
Maybe this St. Cloud house organ is no longer considered a Catholic periodical!
Anna
C
Catholic29
Guest
Oh wow!!!
I can’t believe such an awesome response I have gotten so far in this thread, when I find out about such abuses like this on the web, you can find someone somewhere who is willing to do something about them.
Thank you all for taking an interest in this, especially Lux_et_veritas
And yes, Bishop Kinney sadly is a known proponent of the “Spirit” of Vatican II, who emphasizes pastoralism all too often at the expense of orthodoxy, and collegiality over obedience to the Magisterium. He is to put it short a people pleaser.
Here is a link to yet another outrage, which is crying for action: forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=64036 :crying:
I can’t believe such an awesome response I have gotten so far in this thread, when I find out about such abuses like this on the web, you can find someone somewhere who is willing to do something about them.
Thank you all for taking an interest in this, especially Lux_et_veritas
And yes, Bishop Kinney sadly is a known proponent of the “Spirit” of Vatican II, who emphasizes pastoralism all too often at the expense of orthodoxy, and collegiality over obedience to the Magisterium. He is to put it short a people pleaser.
Here is a link to yet another outrage, which is crying for action: forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=64036 :crying:
L
Lux_et_veritas
Guest
I have to give it a little time, but I do plan on sending it to the CDF if there is no retraction publicly, or if nothing comes in the mail. I’ll rest it on the back burner for now.
Certainly the Vatican knows about stuff like this, but they cannot investigate something they don’t have a report on.
Certainly the Vatican knows about stuff like this, but they cannot investigate something they don’t have a report on.
A
Awoman
Guest
Thank God for those who are willing to authentically voice their thoughts and concerns for ALL people…women and men. Many blessings to ALL believers who hope for what our Baptism calls us to.
A
Agomemnon
Guest
Is this with Bishop Blair who was installed just last year??
Basically my view is that most of the Toledo diocese is in schism (or even worse). My hopes are that somehow this will be reversed.
I’ve read the Catholic Chronicle…so far my view is that it is a waste of paper. I read one where they spoke of stem celll research. I was more confused after reading it as to what the Church’s teaching was.
I guess Amchurch is still in charge of the paper
D
davy39
Guest
No, this wasn’t Bishop Blairs brother. It is the auxillary bishops (Bishop Donnelly) brother, who is also a priest in the city of Toledo. It seems to me that the paper in the last few years has become more liberal than it was. I think we have big problems here. Maybe Bishop Blair can get things worked out. I pray that he can.
D
Della
Guest
Apart from the idiotic comments in the article I noticed that the very reason the priesthood exists, to bring the Eucharist to the faithful, was never mentioned. I wouldn’t be surprised if the author doesn’t believe in transubstantiation. To make no mention of the fact that the ministerial priesthood is a sacramental office tells me, sadly enough, all I need to know.
L
Lux_et_veritas
Guest
Well, people, I got my reply from Bishop Kinney.
It was quite a lengthy letter so I can only summarize pieces of it. I have added some comments of my own in paranthesis).
A) He acknowledges that the diocesan newspaper endorsed a theological position that is not in harmony with the official teaching of the Catholic Church.
B) He goes on to acknowledge that the Holy See has made its position known through pronouncements and clearly outlined its theological reasoning.
C) He does not review the Editorial prior to print (and this is quite proper as he is suppose to be ablet to trust his editor, as opposed to micromanaging).
D) Acknowledges that Interim Editor Joe Young has a great love for the people of the diocese and he believes it was not Joe’s intent to lead people astray. He then goes on to state that Joe had exercised a great lapse of judgment. (I also believe this to be true IF this person is not as knowledgeable about how things truly work within the Catholic Church, such as through poor catechesis, which is why he belongs in a role that has supervision - so that he can learn).
E) He notes that on July 21, the new editor addressed this issue within a larger editorial. Here is that letter and you will note that she addresses the comments by Joe Young further down near the end stcdio.org/Visitor/newassets/new_editorial.htm
Followup comments of my own:
I do not know this Bishop personally. I am grateful that he replied so quickly (about 1 month) and was in agreement that the editorial was out of sync with Catholic teaching. I won’t pass judgment any further than this because that is not my job. I am satisfied with how he addressed it, while I am less than enthusiastic about the bulk of the editorial on July 21. But I am also glad to see that the new Editor has also pointed out that the editorial was not in sync with Catholic teaching.
I simply disagree with her point that the Diocesan newspaper should not be used to convey catechism. I’m of the opinion that it should be used not only to report news, but to reference Catholic doctrine, teachings, canon law, scripture, fathers of the church, etc when discussing certain topics so that people understand how opinions of the news are formed. Simply referencing a line in the Catechism is enough to prompt people to look it up - those who wish to, if the desire is to bring along those who want to come. But it sounds like this paper has other ideas.
It was quite a lengthy letter so I can only summarize pieces of it. I have added some comments of my own in paranthesis).
A) He acknowledges that the diocesan newspaper endorsed a theological position that is not in harmony with the official teaching of the Catholic Church.
B) He goes on to acknowledge that the Holy See has made its position known through pronouncements and clearly outlined its theological reasoning.
C) He does not review the Editorial prior to print (and this is quite proper as he is suppose to be ablet to trust his editor, as opposed to micromanaging).
D) Acknowledges that Interim Editor Joe Young has a great love for the people of the diocese and he believes it was not Joe’s intent to lead people astray. He then goes on to state that Joe had exercised a great lapse of judgment. (I also believe this to be true IF this person is not as knowledgeable about how things truly work within the Catholic Church, such as through poor catechesis, which is why he belongs in a role that has supervision - so that he can learn).
E) He notes that on July 21, the new editor addressed this issue within a larger editorial. Here is that letter and you will note that she addresses the comments by Joe Young further down near the end stcdio.org/Visitor/newassets/new_editorial.htm
Followup comments of my own:
I do not know this Bishop personally. I am grateful that he replied so quickly (about 1 month) and was in agreement that the editorial was out of sync with Catholic teaching. I won’t pass judgment any further than this because that is not my job. I am satisfied with how he addressed it, while I am less than enthusiastic about the bulk of the editorial on July 21. But I am also glad to see that the new Editor has also pointed out that the editorial was not in sync with Catholic teaching.
I simply disagree with her point that the Diocesan newspaper should not be used to convey catechism. I’m of the opinion that it should be used not only to report news, but to reference Catholic doctrine, teachings, canon law, scripture, fathers of the church, etc when discussing certain topics so that people understand how opinions of the news are formed. Simply referencing a line in the Catechism is enough to prompt people to look it up - those who wish to, if the desire is to bring along those who want to come. But it sounds like this paper has other ideas.
C
Catholic29
Guest
Wow!
I don’t think I have seen more action done within the first 30 posts of a thread than I have seen of most with 300 or more.
I am also amazed that Bishop Kinney responded so quickly, even that he would of at all. But I am sure that his paper will now be to a certain degree more in fidelity (one would hope anyway) with Magisterial teaching, and that they will consult with clergy or someone with a bit more education in Catholic doctrine, before they publish some off-the-cuff editorial that roams within the territory of Church teaching. Though it is clear that Interim Editor Joe Young was at least a victim of the poor catechesis that had invaded many parishes and Catholic schools following Vatican II.
I don’t think I have seen more action done within the first 30 posts of a thread than I have seen of most with 300 or more.
I am also amazed that Bishop Kinney responded so quickly, even that he would of at all. But I am sure that his paper will now be to a certain degree more in fidelity (one would hope anyway) with Magisterial teaching, and that they will consult with clergy or someone with a bit more education in Catholic doctrine, before they publish some off-the-cuff editorial that roams within the territory of Church teaching. Though it is clear that Interim Editor Joe Young was at least a victim of the poor catechesis that had invaded many parishes and Catholic schools following Vatican II.
L
Lux_et_veritas
Guest
The letter from Bishop Kinney says something about other letters coming in. I’m not sure if he meant to the editor, to himself, or to both. However, he stated that the vast majority voiced displeasure with the editorial. He said a sampling would be included, but I’m not sure if he meant in the July 21 paper or a later one. Letters to the editor do not seem to be included on the website, at least as far as I can see on this topic. Maybe they are forthcoming.
F
fix
Guest
I read the editorial and I disagree with much of it. The writer seems to leave out very important facts regarding the obligation of a so-called Catholic paper.
Publishing editorials that contradict teaching and go without correction is no service to the truth. Error has no rights.
L
Lux_et_veritas
Guest
Here is how Patricia Lynn Morrison, the new editor addressed the issue. For me, it was more of a “yes, but…” The “yes” that what Joe Young said was contradictory to Catholic teaching was in the first two paragraphs (barely), then the “but…” comes in the third paragraph posted here.
The publication in this diocesan newspaper of an editorial encouraging the ordination of women – an action which was construed by many as the viewpoint of the diocese or of Bishop Kinney – was clearly ill-advised and an error in judgment.
As a Catholic and diocesan publication, the St. Cloud Visitor accepts the church’s judgment that it does not have the authority to ordain women. We have the obligation to make that clear to our readers.
At the same time, our role as a Catholic newspaper is to analyze current events, help Catholics understand the difficult issues of the day and provide them with a forum for adult thought and discussion. We would not be fulfilling that aspect of our mission if we closed off all discussion. Many Catholics still struggle with aspects of church teaching, amid great pain or anger at the church they love. We cannot ignore that reality – or the voices of those members of our faith community.
In my opinion, statements like this do not help people through their anger, but actually work to justify the anger. The anger is not justified. Often there is some other sin at the root of the anger - such as pride. Contempt itself, for legitimate authority can be sinful as discussed in this webpage on the topic of obedience (reverence for authority).
opusangelorum.org/English/Obedience.html
There can be no better example than the one I found in this thread on another forum, where a man blames the priests for chasing people away from the Catholic Church. Needless to say, he got a well-earned admonishment from the priest. If the man responded with contempt for the words of the priest, then the priest is not responsible. He told it like it is. If the man truly was interested in following God and God’s truth, he hopefully took a deep look inside at his own thinking based on the priest’s words.
forum.catholic.org/viewtopic.php?t=15678
When we struggle with a teaching or a doctrine, we need to approach the Church with humility and ask God to help us to understand that teaching. But, if we approach the Church with intent to drive change to accomodate ourselves, then it simply isn’t going to do any good. People need to sometimes hear what they don’t want to hear.
If anyone has found the “Readers Reaction” or can share some of it with us in the forum here I would appreciate it. I do believe that they will once again be inundated with mail based on my own reaction to the latest editorial.
The publication in this diocesan newspaper of an editorial encouraging the ordination of women – an action which was construed by many as the viewpoint of the diocese or of Bishop Kinney – was clearly ill-advised and an error in judgment.
As a Catholic and diocesan publication, the St. Cloud Visitor accepts the church’s judgment that it does not have the authority to ordain women. We have the obligation to make that clear to our readers.
At the same time, our role as a Catholic newspaper is to analyze current events, help Catholics understand the difficult issues of the day and provide them with a forum for adult thought and discussion. We would not be fulfilling that aspect of our mission if we closed off all discussion. Many Catholics still struggle with aspects of church teaching, amid great pain or anger at the church they love. We cannot ignore that reality – or the voices of those members of our faith community.
In my opinion, statements like this do not help people through their anger, but actually work to justify the anger. The anger is not justified. Often there is some other sin at the root of the anger - such as pride. Contempt itself, for legitimate authority can be sinful as discussed in this webpage on the topic of obedience (reverence for authority).
opusangelorum.org/English/Obedience.html
There can be no better example than the one I found in this thread on another forum, where a man blames the priests for chasing people away from the Catholic Church. Needless to say, he got a well-earned admonishment from the priest. If the man responded with contempt for the words of the priest, then the priest is not responsible. He told it like it is. If the man truly was interested in following God and God’s truth, he hopefully took a deep look inside at his own thinking based on the priest’s words.
forum.catholic.org/viewtopic.php?t=15678
When we struggle with a teaching or a doctrine, we need to approach the Church with humility and ask God to help us to understand that teaching. But, if we approach the Church with intent to drive change to accomodate ourselves, then it simply isn’t going to do any good. People need to sometimes hear what they don’t want to hear.
If anyone has found the “Readers Reaction” or can share some of it with us in the forum here I would appreciate it. I do believe that they will once again be inundated with mail based on my own reaction to the latest editorial.
F
fix
Guest
The bishop is ultimately responsible for that paper. What I read in no way can be reconciled with the authentic notion of freedom. It is heterodoxy and is given cover by calling it “adult” and “balanced” when it reality it is subtle rebellion.
- Status