Educating myself into ignorance

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Well, I started reading this and find it similar to other sources I’ve read. I’ve lived quite a few life times in a short period of time, meaning that I lived a rough life. Because of the extremes in my life I’ve been through more therapy than the average person, not because I’m nuts, but because of the overload. Emotionally speaking it’s a wonder I’m alive, knowing the suicide attempts of people in my family and the one successful one my brother procured. I lived through a lot of abuse in my life from as far back as I can remember, which is pretty far back… as a toddler.
 
I just had a major epiphony today. I discovered that my sister, whom I’ve been worried about for so many years because of her living conditions and lack of normal luxuries most of us take for granted, was dirt poor. She just told me that her husband makes $200,000 / year. She has a GED and he might have a High School deploma. My other brother dropped out of High School and procured a GED as well and makes up to $300,000 / year. In case your wondering what they do or did to get there, they’re both tool pushers. My brother is a consultant now. My point is that I’ve spend a good portion of my life in college trying to overcome my inability to make a decent living and feel like I’ve shot of my foot, both feet.

I started thinking about this and have decided that my life is a joke for one. I’ve started rethinking what to teach my children, one on his way out the door in a few years. This reminds me of what I now perceive as the creation of Protestantism. The more educated we think we are the more we place ourselves in jeopardy of falling into Satan’s snare. What a trap. I’ve always thought that overly educated people I’ve known have been the least intelligent I’ve met. No offense. I’m right up there with them. Only, my education is much broader than most because of my thirst for knowledge. It has helped me in my faith, but not in providing for my family. I was conned into believing the more education I have the better off we would be. After countless attempts at climbing in my fields, GIS, Planning and/Civil Engineering, I’ve decided to throw in the towel and become a teacher. Only, I won’t con the kids. I’ll tell them like it really is and also show them the downsides. I’ve lived it.

Some of the most intelligent people I’ve known had little to no formal college. Some of the wisest also fit in the same group. It begs the question as to whether our ancestors, if peasants, were better off than we’re led to believe. Ignorance of scripture is ignorance of Christ. Well, maybe the ignorance is what protects us from killing our souls. Just another twisted thought of the day from yours truly. I feel so depressed.😃
I so agree with you. Education has ruined many.
 
Well, I **started reading this **and find it similar to other sources I’ve read. I’ve lived quite a few life times in a short period of time, meaning that I lived a rough life. Because of the extremes in my life I’ve been through more therapy than the average person, not because I’m nuts, but because of the overload. Emotionally speaking it’s a wonder I’m alive, knowing the suicide attempts of people in my family and the one successful one my brother procured. I lived through a lot of abuse in my life from as far back as I can remember, which is pretty far back… as a toddler.
Started reading what?
 
I took my time (i.e. 13 years) finishing my B.A. The day I did, I got an offer than I couldn’t have received otherwise. I don’t care about money so much as doing something I like doing, and an education has opened the the right doors for me.

You can be the most intelligent guy around, and be dedicated and hard-working, and hiring managers will still turn you down simply because you don’t have that sheepskin with your name on it. Not always, but it’s more the case now than ever.

Not to mention that whether you go to college or not, you should use your brain for all it’s worth. God didn’t give us intellect to wallow in ignorance.
 
I took my time (i.e. 13 years) finishing my B.A. The day I did, I got an offer than I couldn’t have received otherwise. I don’t care about money so much as doing something I like doing, and an education has opened the the right doors for me.

You can be the most intelligent guy around, and be dedicated and hard-working, and hiring managers will still turn you down simply because you don’t have that sheepskin with your name on it. Not always, but it’s more the case now than ever.

Not to mention that whether you go to college or not, you should use your brain for all it’s worth. God didn’t give us intellect to wallow in ignorance.
But he does give us vocations that we should do great in. Not everyone should be an academician.

As far as college is concerned, it’s supposed to round off the rough edges to create a more refined human being. Unfortunately it doesn’t always work that way. But a good education does provide for a more civilized atmosphere to work in without the roughneck mentality associate with working in the fields. Besides, only a handful of people get the privileged of promotion to such positions that I’ve mention in this thread.
 
You are equating success with how much money you make.
Your friend
Sufjon
This is an accute account of this situtation.

Moving on…Another is as mankind, we often through our own intellect turn this into self-admiration. IMHO the correct path isn’t to attach your spirit to the physical self, its to detach.

The question we all should ask ourself daily, “What has our own self admiration ever done for us?” I spend more time trying to lose the self than find it, never mind admire it. To respect yourself and love yourself correctly shouldn’t ascend to vanity.

We live in a world of illusion and all to aften call it reality. Man will worship hollywood idols, athlete’s, musicians etc. And ignore those with the real ability to elevate them.

Did you see what Marie Osmond did to her face through plastic surgury? Take a look and tell me what you think of the before and after. Now could you imagine the time spent in the mirror to come to these irrational conclusions at her age of what 52?

Education never ends, you only reach a level of proficiency in a specific area and gain aspects of knowledge in others. All too often one will then perceive that specific learned quality, as some piece of knowledge, that somehow makes “him” of more worth than another human being. Here, you then turned you intellect into vanity. This occurs for the simple reason that your specific talent may actually be of value for another. A marketable trade/education/value etc. You are not that marketable quality, the knowledge you gained in that specific area “is”. You are just another human being, that puts your pants on, one leg at a time. You through eductation, and often through great effort and determination, obtained a skill which you may just happen to be very proficient at. In other words the musician isn’t the instrument, thus without the instument what is he?

The longer one walks this path, the more difficult is the seperation. Of couse its not impossible. However, what happens is the intellect becames a defense, or a wall. And a very good one at that. It creates an impenetrable aura of denial, to add to this dillema, if you are able to avoid the controntation of this issue? Then you’ll be trapped as a prisoner of your own mind, for a God only knows how long.

These trials you speak of in your life, are in truth nothing to be ashamed of. Without a doubt they have much to do with the clarity of mind, you are obtaining. So in fact those trials however uncomfortable or horrific they may have been, in truth are santifying Grace. Of course I would assume their are many out here who would consider these shortcomings, some sort of defect. which then promotes them somehow to a higher natural status, well, in their mind anyway. More focus on self-admiration is all that is.

How often we become confused through “mans” rules and see incorrectly. If a trial turns to a Blessing, than how was it a Horror? How often does the so called Blessing of 6-figures turn into pure Horror? It won’t buy true happiness, true love, or one more second on this physical plain. In fact, if not in correct perspective or check, it will probly do just the opposite. So then complete opposites by mankinds rule’s are quickly incorrectly perceived. 🤷

And on and on the story of the mind and life go. These lessons we learn about the self in life. We also shouldn’t personalize them, this breaths more life into a issue. Thus it becomes a sacred secret hidden from the world. The best solution to your issue, is just what you are doing…Honest open communication. Their you receive honest, open, feedback. You’ll know truth when you hear it. It will reverberate in your mind.

If you feel you owe someone an apology, then do so. As humans we often carry way to much guilt by nature. No need to burden youself with extra. I’m not sure how that works with family, etc. Education also may come from practical experience, in fact their is no better teacher. Which sounds like the senerio with family/tools etc. They seemed to have perfected a skill without in-depth education, it certainly isn’t an unknown in the world. I don’t believe there’s much doubt to the value of education though.

Peace
 
a preview to Brain Vol. I Amazon.com has a “preview” section online.
I was going to inquire as to whether or not you believed that the Meta Model or Milton Model of communication was your preference. I was going to ask you if you saw as I did the understanding that “suppositions” as investigative tools to understanding the basis of NLP and understanding how communication works.

For instance…“we cannot not communicate”…

I was going to ask you if you saw the natural progression from NLP to Neurosemantics expanded in Vol II and abbreviated in the book “Movie Mind” by L. Michael Hall Ph.D. 🙂

I see that you could not discuss these issues based on what you have read…👍
 
Jack Bauer…being the wife of civil engineer I’ll only say…sometimes engineers over think things. 😃
 
Jack Bauer…being the wife of civil engineer I’ll only say…sometimes engineers over think things. 😃
The same can certainly be said about mechanical engineers, too. My husband is a machinist with 47 years of experience running almost every kind of ‘manual’ machine (not CNCs) in a shop, from Bridgeports, various milling machines, etc., to the giant engine lathes he runs now (2’ chuck with a 20’ bed… IIRC). While he might not be an engineer, he has to follow their blueprints and processes as they’re given to him.

Sometimes when he looks at the print and the methods specified by the engineers to do his steps in creating the part, he just scratches his head. While they may have a degree that says they’re proficient in putting their ideas down on paper, they really don’t have the practical hands-on experience of actually running the machines. As a result, sometimes their lofty ideas that look good to them on paper, are impossible to create using the methods that they think need to be done, in the order that they say they should. Sometimes he has to show them why he really can’t do what they want him to do. He might be really good at what he does (he is), but he really can’t perform actual machining miracles. 🤷 LOL
 
The same can certainly be said about mechanical engineers, too. My husband is a machinist with 47 years of experience running almost every kind of ‘manual’ machine (not CNCs) in a shop, from Bridgeports, various milling machines, etc., to the giant engine lathes he runs now (2’ chuck with a 20’ bed… IIRC). While he might not be an engineer, he has to follow their blueprints and processes as they’re given to him.

Sometimes when he looks at the print and the methods specified by the engineers to do his steps in creating the part, he just scratches his head. While they may have a degree that says they’re proficient in putting their ideas down on paper, they really don’t have the practical hands-on experience of actually running the machines. As a result, sometimes their lofty ideas that look good to them on paper, are impossible to create using the methods that they think need to be done, in the order that they say they should. Sometimes he has to show them why he really can’t do what they want him to do. He might be really good at what he does (he is), but he really can’t perform actual machining miracles. 🤷 LOL
My husband was a machinist for ten years before going to college to get his degree in engineering. Machinists are the same as engineers in how they think…they’re always right!
 
I just had a major epiphony today. I discovered that my sister, whom I’ve been worried about for so many years because of her living conditions and lack of normal luxuries most of us take for granted, was dirt poor. She just told me that her husband makes $200,000 / year. She has a GED and he might have a High School deploma. My other brother dropped out of High School and procured a GED as well and makes up to $300,000 / year. In case your wondering what they do or did to get there, they’re both tool pushers. My brother is a consultant now. My point is that I’ve spend a good portion of my life in college trying to overcome my inability to make a decent living and feel like I’ve shot of my foot, both feet.

I started thinking about this and have decided that my life is a joke for one. I’ve started rethinking what to teach my children, one on his way out the door in a few years. This reminds me of what I now perceive as the creation of Protestantism. The more educated we think we are the more we place ourselves in jeopardy of falling into Satan’s snare. What a trap. I’ve always thought that overly educated people I’ve known have been the least intelligent I’ve met. No offense. I’m right up there with them. Only, my education is much broader than most because of my thirst for knowledge. It has helped me in my faith, but not in providing for my family. I was conned into believing the more education I have the better off we would be. After countless attempts at climbing in my fields, GIS, Planning and/Civil Engineering, I’ve decided to throw in the towel and become a teacher. Only, I won’t con the kids. I’ll tell them like it really is and also show them the downsides. I’ve lived it.

Some of the most intelligent people I’ve known had little to no formal college. Some of the wisest also fit in the same group. It begs the question as to whether our ancestors, if peasants, were better off than we’re led to believe. Ignorance of scripture is ignorance of Christ. Well, maybe the ignorance is what protects us from killing our souls. Just another twisted thought of the day from yours truly. I feel so depressed.😃
In Job training, I’ve always thought of it as picking a field that I would like to be in.
That way I enjoy my life and become productive. Money was a consideration but
I felt I would be a better person if I liked what I did, and eliminate anything that would
not be of some help to others. And like you, I didn’t take any jobs that had excessive time away from my family. There have been some bad rought spots but everything
worked out fine.

I think what you are experiencing is one of those rough spots which will pass. I know
when I had them, it looked bleak. But for the most part, those bad spots were actually
a key to something better. I just didn’t know it at the time. Yours will pass too and
our dear Lord may have something better for you. After all He is right here with us.

Just a few thoughts.
 
My husband was a machinist for ten years before going to college to get his degree in engineering. Machinists are the same as engineers in how they think…they’re always right!
Hah! I think you’re right about that! Mine went to vocational school… to be an auto mechanic (loved working on cars). While he was still going to school, he got a job in a local machine shop, ‘pulling chips’ out of the machines full time, on the night-shift. It was grunt work, but he was in a position where he needed to work full time to support his Mom. As soon as he turned 18, they put him on a machine so he could make more money. By the time he graduated, he figured he was already making more than he could as a mechanic, and never looked back. With all of his experience, he probably could be an engineer, but the thought of having to learn trig, and having to work behind a desk in an office (wearing a suit??? :eek:), were not very appealing to him. At one point they wanted him to be a boss, but he didn’t want that headache, either. He’s comfortable where he is for now. He’ll be retiring in a couple of years, anyway. 😃
 
Hah! I think you’re right about that! Mine went to vocational school… to be an auto mechanic (loved working on cars). While he was still going to school, he got a job in a local machine shop, ‘pulling chips’ out of the machines full time, on the night-shift. It was grunt work, but he was in a position where he needed to work full time to support his Mom. As soon as he turned 18, they put him on a machine so he could make more money. By the time he graduated, he figured he was already making more than he could as a mechanic, and never looked back. With all of his experience, he probably could be an engineer, but the thought of having to learn trig, and having to work behind a desk in an office (wearing a suit??? :eek:), were not very appealing to him. At one point they wanted him to be a boss, but he didn’t want that headache, either. He’s comfortable where he is for now. He’ll be retiring in a couple of years, anyway. 😃
I just returned from an evening of engineers in a hotel ballroom. I just kept thinking of the brain power that was in that one room.

The place my husband worked as a machinist was terrible. He already had a broken finger and broken toe. Was complaining that the coolant and itty bitty metal bits were getting into his lungs…we couldn’t see him doing this for a lifetime and living very long. So we made the decision to have him go to school full time. I worked full time, he quit his job and went to school full time. Also took care of our daughter who was just a toddler at the time. It was a good decision. He’s at a desk job, has never owned a business suit in his life, but isn’t breathing coolant and metal bits. He’s in his fifties now, retirement isn’t too far off.

I’m self trained on the job as a systems administrator. Yes, we are the geek family! As a woman in a field of mostly men, and no degree, I have had times where I know having a degree would be better. As someone said, it opens doors to more options. Like Mr. Bauer here up and deciding to teach…you aren’t going to do that without a degree. But I am happy. I like what I do and where I work, and make decent wages so I have nothing to complain about. 🙂
 
In the current economy, higher education is not worth it because it is so expensive. One will not receive an equal return on their investment.

However, that being said, if one can afford it, and finds a reasonable value for the education, it most certainly is worth it.

Also, although in this economy, many of my friends with less education are making a lot more money than me, eventually, if the world does not end and the economy gets better, people with higher education will once again be making money and receive a fair return on their investment.

So yes, currently, expensive higher education is not worth it. But that does not mean the same will be true when the economy gets better.
 
about 8 years ago I had an opportunity to work as a junior CEO for a Mapping company in GIS. I chose a Senior Engineering job over that job with a lower salary in order to stay close to home. I made the choice. About 6 years ago my neighbor said he would get me on with an American company in logistics in the Middle East. I told him I’d rather have my M16 on my shoulder than to run around like a target. The pay would have been $140,000/yr. Believe me, I’m here by choice. I could have been a cold hearted husband and father and run off but chose to remain close to home.

I left an engineering job to become a teacher. So, I made my own bed. I’m not unhappy for those of you that have missed the point of my post. I’m shocked that my sister [you don’t know my sister] and her husband. She quit school because she got pregnant. Her husband used to struggle from job to job. She lives on their property in a very small home and has these drawings of a dream home add on. The way she talks is like they don’t know where their next check is going to come from to pay for groceries. At one point I was trying to find a way to help them [boy do I feel foolish now]. It’s amazing. I happy for them. It’s been rough. Leaving home for so long is not my idea of a good living though. It’s money in the bank and guys like that usually play hard, which requires lots of money. I thought his parents were helping them. WOW! Blew my mind.

Anyway. I’m still mind boggled over it. Ever heard of the story about the Attorney that hired a plumber? The plumber gives the attorney the bill for his work and says, ‘man with money like this I’d do better becoming a plumber.’ The plumber said, that why I left my law firm and became a plumber. 😃 I’m grateful that my sister actually does have a little security that I never realized she had. Of course, money isn’t everything.
That story probably holds true today more so than ever. Attorneys really do not make much money anymore. Some do, just like celebrities make a lot of money. But the rest, like the many qualified acotrs and actresses who never reach celebrity status, do not make much.
 
But he does give us vocations that we should do great in. Not everyone should be an academician.

As far as college is concerned, it’s supposed to round off the rough edges to create a more refined human being. Unfortunately it doesn’t always work that way. But a good education does provide for a more civilized atmosphere to work in without the roughneck mentality associate with working in the fields. Besides, only a handful of people get the privileged of promotion to such positions that I’ve mention in this thread.
Sure, there are some people who, for whatever reason(s), are just not qualified for college or the fields a degree would prepare them for. I met a number of unprepared students and a whole lot of slackers during my time in school.

Having said that, unless the ‘working class’ wants to work in retail or move to a developing country, their opportunities are becoming more and more limited every year. The jobs that people with minimal education used to do are largely overseas today.
 
I was going to inquire as to whether or not you believed that the Meta Model or Milton Model of communication was your preference. I was going to ask you if you saw as I did the understanding that “suppositions” as investigative tools to understanding the basis of NLP and understanding how communication works.

For instance…“we cannot not communicate”…

I was going to ask you if you saw the natural progression from NLP to Neurosemantics expanded in Vol II and abbreviated in the book “Movie Mind” by L. Michael Hall Ph.D. 🙂

I see that you could not discuss these issues based on what you have read…👍
You’re already talking over my pay grade, doctor.😉 But I do find the discussion of it interesting.
 
The same can certainly be said about mechanical engineers, too. My husband is a machinist with 47 years of experience running almost every kind of ‘manual’ machine (not CNCs) in a shop, from Bridgeports, various milling machines, etc., to the giant engine lathes he runs now (2’ chuck with a 20’ bed… IIRC). While he might not be an engineer, he has to follow their blueprints and processes as they’re given to him.

Sometimes when he looks at the print and the methods specified by the engineers to do his steps in creating the part, he just scratches his head. **While they may have a degree that says they’re proficient in putting their ideas down on paper, they really don’t have the practical hands-on experience of actually running the machines. **As a result, sometimes their lofty ideas that look good to them on paper, are impossible to create using the methods that they think need to be done, in the order that they say they should. Sometimes he has to show them why he really can’t do what they want him to do. He might be really good at what he does (he is), but he really can’t perform actual machining miracles. 🤷 LOL
That’s why wise engineers consult the field experts. The one’s that go around acting like they know better because they have a degree and/or a license are the ones that get into trouble. The license just makes the engineer a marked man or otherwise “the fall guy/gal”.
 
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