Educational Background Non Denom Pastors

[PetraG]

I’ve just been drawn to the preaching which are available online. Their sermons are relatable…

A reasonable question for anyone listening to Sunday preaching is what difference it makes to the listener.
Are you looking for someone who forms your conscience correctly and an overall connection with the worship that orients you towards acting in grace? If not, it doesn’t make a lot of difference whether you intellectually
or emotionally “relate” or not.

We are cautioned in the Gospels that “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven.” (Matt. 7:21) Even if we’re going to Holy Mass itself and are listening to a gifted homilist, that doesn’t guarantee that the seed sown will bear fruit.

I love this story, related by Fred Rogers (the famous “Mr Rogers”) about how important openness is:
“I remember so keenly one of the times I learned how individually the Spirit can work. It was years ago, and Joanne [this was Rogers’ wife] and I were worshiping in a little church with friends of ours, another husband and wife. We were on vacation, and I was in the middle of my homiletics course at the time.”

“During the sermon I kept ticking off every mistake I thought the preacher — he must have been 80 years old — was making. When this interminable sermon finally ended, I turned to my friend, intending to say something critical about the sermon. I stopped myself when I saw the tears running down her face.”

“She whispered to me, ‘He said exactly what I needed to hear.’ That was a seminal experience for me. I was judging and she was needing, and the Holy Spirit responded to need, not to judgment.”

 

[Wannano]

Their head pastor sounds pretty educated but the guy I’ve been talking to, not as much.

I have heard some awful boring preaching from highly educated men and some very stimulating and thoughtful presentations of Biblical truth from not so educated men.

The Apostle Peter seemed to have positive results, but for all I know maybe he had a PhD.

 

[TC3033]

Their sermons are relatable, whereas a homily is rarely something I can identify with or even remember.

Wife and I actually had this conversation on Sunday. Most of the time we walk out of church wondering what the heck he was talking about or he shames people so hard we walk out asking what the heck he was really talking about. My wife also loves the minister at my non-denom church and his sermons.

 

[ltwin]

Well, I’m thinking about going to another service there, but are their pastors even educated nearly as well as our priests are?

It depends. Some pastors of non-denominational churches may have seminary training. However, many do not. They may have trained under another pastor or have been entirely self-taught.

 

[guanophore]

As many of you know, I checked out a non denominational church awhile back. Well, I’m thinking about going to another service there,

What would be your goal?

I’ve just been drawn to the preaching which are available online. Their sermons are relatable, whereas a homily is rarely something I can identify with or even remember.
They also have a wonderful, upbeat band, lights, fog machine and 3 or 4 large screen. It’s lively and modern.

I can relate to some painful homilies. Fortunately there are always good ones online. Sometimes I listen to a favorite reflection before I go to Mass.

You are right that those Churches really do have better entertainment . It is something I miss too. It is better than going to a concert, because God is the focus.

Of course, the chances of me leaving the Church and converting to this other church is slim since, unless I change my mind, their beliefs don’t line up with mine with regard to the Bible.

I would say the biggest risk of those relatable, lively sermons is that they are laced with heresies. The better I know my Catholic faith, the more they stick out at me. I can’t even me in the room when they are preaching on TV anymore.

I tend to lean toward the belief that the Bible is not a science book or history book camp.

The Bible is actually a library of books, some of which are intended to be literal history (like Chronicles, for example) from the perspective of the people of God who lived that history. There are also parts that are amazingly congruent with scientific discovery. Poetry, memoirs, liturgy, etc. there is a broad range of literature. I, too, had a really hard time with that fundamentalist perspective.

Unfortunately this is all too common. Some ministers are well prepared, but there is a preponderance that are not.

Major denominations have criteria that must be met before a person is ordained or commissioned for the role but these ecclesial communities that are unaffiliated with denominations make their own standards. For some, it is just a sense that a person feels called to the work.

The authority issue and accountability is why most Protestants avoid the Catholic Church, but when an issue arises, instead of there being a Bishop to approach, the individual or family just moves to a different congregation. This is not what Jesus taught about resolving problems in the Church.

 

[Wannano]

Hope1960:

Their sermons are relatable, whereas a homily is rarely something I can identify with or even remember.

Wife and I actually had this conversation on Sunday. Most of the time we walk out of church wondering what the heck he was talking about or he shames people so hard we walk out asking what the heck he was really talking about. My wife also loves the minister at my non-denom church and his sermons.

Half of your post instantly disappeared in front of my eyes!

 

[TC3033]

Ya…I thought too many details on Sunday’s homily that may have given my area away.

 

[guanophore]

if the preaching is superior to your homilies, one has to ask how much good is the superior level of training?

This is a good point. The primary role of the priest is sacramental, not necessarily homiletical. All priests/deacons get training in this, but not all are gifted in this area. Some do not have administrative gifts, so do not run a parish well, even if they have had training.

During the Reformation, the central focus on the ministers moved from the altar to the pulpit. While Catholics are always gleeful to get a good preacher, the focus for us is on the sacrifice of the Mass.

 

[Wannano]

Hope1960:

As many of you know, I checked out a non denominational church awhile back. Well, I’m thinking about going to another service there,

What would be your goal?

I’ve just been drawn to the preaching which are available online. Their sermons are relatable, whereas a homily is rarely something I can identify with or even remember.
They also have a wonderful, upbeat band, lights, fog machine and 3 or 4 large screen. It’s lively and modern.

I can relate to some painful homilies. Fortunately there are always good ones online. Sometimes I listen to a favorite reflection before I go to Mass.

You are right that those Churches really do have better entertainment . It is something I miss too. It is better than going to a concert, because God is the focus.

Of course, the chances of me leaving the Church and converting to this other church is slim since, unless I change my mind, their beliefs don’t line up with mine with regard to the Bible.

I would say the biggest risk of those relatable, lively sermons is that they are laced with heresies. The better I know my Catholic faith, the more they stick out at me. I can’t even me in the room when they are preaching on TV anymore.

I tend to lean toward the belief that the Bible is not a science book or history book camp.

The Bible is actually a library of books, some of which are intended to be literal history (like Chronicles, for example) from the perspective of the people of God who lived that history. There are also parts that are amazingly congruent with scientific discovery. Poetry, memoirs, liturgy, etc. there is a broad range of literature. I, too, had a really hard time with that fundamentalist perspective.

Unfortunately this is all too common. Some ministers are well prepared, but there is a preponderance that are not.

Major denominations have criteria that must be met before a person is ordained or commissioned for the role but these ecclesial communities that are unaffiliated with denominations make their own standards. For some, it is just a sense that a person feels called to the work.

The authority issue and accountability is why most Protestants avoid the Catholic Church, but when an issue arises, instead of there being a Bishop to approach, the individual or family just moves to a different congregation. This is not what Jesus taught about resolving problems in the Church.

Interesting, I quite often see Catholics telling a poster they should try another Catholic parish.

 

[Wannano]

Ya…I thought too many details on Sunday’s homily that may have given my area away.

It looked interesting!

 

[Hope1960]

I’ve looked several times online for the college this “Student Pastor” received his Bachelors degree from and still can’t find it. I did find a page with a list of maybe 25 schools on it, titled Religious Colleges in Missouri and found the seminary our priests have often graduated from. Makes me wonder if it was just some online course, but even that would be listed, somewhere. Hmmmm.

 

[TC3033]

It was…

Maybe I’ll get brave.

 

[Augustinian]

As many of you know, I checked out a non denominational church awhile back. Well, I’m thinking about going to another service there, but are their pastors even educated nearly as well as our priests are?

“non denominational” clergy aren’t required to have any education at all- at least here in America. Theoretically, anyone can set up a church, call themselves a minister or evangelist or a bishop. Although the negative side is that they have to convince people to attend.

Different denominations have different requirements for certification or ordination. Some require more, some less.

 

[guanophore]

I do wonder why virtually every homily I’ve heard in my life is so unrelatable.

I does seem odd. Do you have the same experience with the USCCB?

Maybe this is your call to start practicing Lectio Divina?

One thing that helps me is to pray for the homilist. I occasionely go to a Mass that has an elderly Philipino priest and I can only understand about every fifth word. I pray for him, myself and reflect quietly on the readings.

 

[Hope1960]

My friend whom I usually go to Mass with and I were talking about this, too, after Mass on Saturday. After the homily she whispered that it was good, and I told her that the second half was ok but I had absolutely no idea what he was talking about for the first half of it.

 

[lanman87]

As many of you know, I checked out a non denominational church awhile back. Well, I’m thinking about going to another service there, but are their pastors even educated nearly as well as our priests are?

It depends. In most evangelical denominations and larger non-denominational churches the pastor is expected to have seminary training. However, in poorer and rural churches that may not always be the case.

In the area I grew up in it was very rural and not many people attended college at any level. As a result most young men that felt a “call” to preach/pastor would be mentored by an older pastor. This could go on for several years. The young man would be occasionally asked to preach and studied doctrine and church leadership under the older pastor. At some point, the older pastor would recommend the younger pastor to a church that was in need of a Pastor and the young man would then take that position. It was usually in a small rural church.

Some of the most gifted preachers I’ve ever heard were not formally educated. They just spoke from a love of Christ and zeal for leading the flock in love and service of Christ. I’ve also heard Pastors with doctorates of Theology that spoke using such big words and ideas that everyone tuned out.

 

[Hope1960]

I does seem odd. Do you have the same experience with the USCCB?

Maybe this is your call to start practicing Lectio Divina?

One thing that helps me is to pray for the homilist. I occasionely go to a Mass that has an elderly Philipino priest and I can only understand about every fifth word. I pray for him, myself and reflect quietly on the readings.

I’ve never listened to the USCCB podcasts. The Lectio Divina sounds nice.

 

[Wannano]

Hope1960:

As many of you know, I checked out a non denominational church awhile back. Well, I’m thinking about going to another service there, but are their pastors even educated nearly as well as our priests are?

It depends. In most evangelical denominations and larger non-denominational churches the pastor is expected to have seminary training. However, in poorer and rural churches that may not always be the case.

In the area I grew up in it was very rural and not many people attended college at any level. As a result most young men that felt a “call” to preach/pastor would be mentored by an older pastor. This could go on for several years. The young man would be occasionally asked to preach and studied doctrine and church leadership under the older pastor. At some point, the older pastor would recommend the younger pastor to a church that was in need of a Pastor and the young man would then take that position. It was usually in a small rural church.

Some of the most gifted preachers I’ve ever heard were not formally educated. They just spoke from a love of Christ and zeal for leading the flock in love and service of Christ. I’ve also heard Pastors with doctorates of Theology that spoke using such big words and ideas that everyone tuned out.

This and to be fair, I was in attendance at Mass where the homily left me spellbound. It was so completely like the sermons I hear in my “heretical” church that had the Priest given it in my church I believe the people would have given a standing ovation. Delivery and content.

 

[guanophore]

I quite often see Catholics telling a poster they should try another Catholic parish.

Indeed, the difference being that the doctrine and liturgy is the same all over the world. In the non-denom realm, there are variances across the board. Sometimes these are minor, sometimes not. I have heard them called “doctrinal distinctives” also, which I think is the same as heterodoxy?

 

[Wannano]

Wannano:

I quite often see Catholics telling a poster they should try another Catholic parish.

Indeed, the difference being that the doctrine and liturgy is the same all over the world. In the non-denom realm, there are variances across the board. Sometimes these are minor, sometimes not. I have heard them called “doctrinal distinctives” also, which I think is the same as heterodoxy?

I am a non-Catholic and have heard some awful preaching over here too.