EF and OF

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ProVobis said:
Correct. It is my understanding too that the Missal of 1962 was supposed to have been a culmination of those efforts as seen by St. John XXIII, who terminated that commission.
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Which would be another example that one Pope’s decisions do not bind the next Pope…
 
Ad_Orientem said:
There’s room for diversity, but when the liturgy is not strictly regulated, it is at the mercy of the celebrant and ministers. It easily becomes about us, about how creatively we can invent liturgy, how it can reflect our particular congregation, how entertaining it can be, how relevant it is to me, or how efficient and convenient we can make it for ourselves.
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I think we need to be careful here, when we start to ascribe motives to other people. None of us have the charism to read the hearts and minds of priest; to know that it “is about us” in their minds.
 
otjm said:
Which would be another example that one Pope’s decisions do not bind the next Pope…
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A Pope doesn’t bind himself, for that matter. Can remove excommunications, “clarify” earlier documents, rehire people he fired, etc.
 
Thank you, Brother Jay. You always know just what to say to calm the natives. :D:thumbsup:
 
OraLabora said:
Too few? No that’s not the issue. The issue is that currently, on parish liturgical committees, there seems to be too few members pushing for a properly-celebrated OF Mass. I’ve seen so many hokey innovations, it’s almost as if just celebrating Mass reverently according to the rubrics and with appropriate, singable music would be a major innovation in itself.
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I think what we have on parish liturgical committees are too few members who know the documents and too many members who rely on publications from for-profit agencies and “what they did in parishes X, Y, and Z when I was there last” to tell them what to do.

I served on Liturgy Committees for almost 15 years in at least 3 different parishes before I ever heard of the GIRM or other Church documents. No reference to those was ever made and many of the things we did were in direct violation of said documents. Keeping the members in the dark about these is a way for those with liturgical ‘agendas’ to work unopposed. That’s why my first request of new members when I was became chair of the committee in this parish was that they read the GIRM and the Constitution on the Sacred Liturgy.

Of course there are always those who, when you point out that something like singing a paraphrased Gloria is forbidden by the GIRM will say, “I don’t care” or “Oh, I’m sure God won’t mind if we do it anyway.” That’s not limited to the laity either. Personally, I don’t presume that God is OK with out and out disobedience.
 
Phemie said:
I think what we have on parish liturgical committees are too few members who know the documents and too many members who rely on publications from for-profit agencies and “what they did in parishes X, Y, and Z when I was there last” to tell them what to do.

I served on Liturgy Committees for almost 15 years in at least 3 different parishes before I ever heard of the GIRM or other Church documents. No reference to those was ever made and many of the things we did were in direct violation of said documents. Keeping the members in the dark about these is a way for those with liturgical ‘agendas’ to work unopposed. That’s why my first request of new members when I was became chair of the committee in this parish was that they read the GIRM and the Constitution on the Sacred Liturgy.

Of course there are always those who, when you point out that something like singing a paraphrased Gloria is forbidden by the GIRM will say, “I don’t care” or “Oh, I’m sure God won’t mind if we do it anyway.” That’s not limited to the laity either. Personally, I don’t presume that God is OK with out and out disobedience.
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Phemie, kudos to you and others for being faithful to GIRM. I’ve noticed that you frequently allude to them. Personally I’d go one step further and retranslate some of the wording from the Latin IGMR. For instance, if it says “oportet sit” translate it to MUST instead of SHOULD. People have a tendency to read allowances of all kinds on some of these things, when the intent is clear in the Latin and by the fact the Church went into a lot of trouble writing the instructions in the first place.
 
Phemie said:
I think what we have on parish liturgical committees are too few members who know the documents and too many members who rely on publications from for-profit agencies and “what they did in parishes X, Y, and Z when I was there last” to tell them what to do.

I served on Liturgy Committees for almost 15 years in at least 3 different parishes before I ever heard of the GIRM or other Church documents. No reference to those was ever made and many of the things we did were in direct violation of said documents. Keeping the members in the dark about these is a way for those with liturgical ‘agendas’ to work unopposed. That’s why my first request of new members when I was became chair of the committee in this parish was that they read the GIRM and the Constitution on the Sacred Liturgy.

Of course there are always those who, when you point out that something like singing a paraphrased Gloria is forbidden by the GIRM will say, “I don’t care” or “Oh, I’m sure God won’t mind if we do it anyway.” That’s not limited to the laity either. Personally, I don’t presume that God is OK with out and out disobedience.
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Boy, you got that right. People attend workshops and come home with all kids of crazy ideas. And of course, the parish wants to see results from paying their way to these things, and the leadership wants to see results.
I will add one more element:
Often committees believe that change to the way things are done will someone “invigorate” “change” (yes on purpose) or “liven up” the liturgy fro the supposed benefit of those who are fallen away.
This NEVER works. It only angers and disgusts, upsets, and divides those people who are faithful. The newbies come once, maybe for a whole month, but they soon tire of church (because they don’t’ really want to be there in the first place) and the parishioners are stuck with some new “innovation” that nobody is needing or wanting.
It’s awful. The rubrics are there for a reason.
Case in point: I was told by a Deacon just this week that our parish is a hand holding parish during the Our Father, and the fact that I don’t is hurtful and disruptive. (I’m an employee). I asked him if he wanted me to supply some documents about it. He backed down pretty quickly, but I got a long lecture about “family,” charity," and not hurting people’s feelings because of my own agenda. All because I didn’t walk across the aisle to hold someone’s hand. I stayed in my place and the woman next to me pried my folded hands apart. :rolleyes:
So no matter where you stand on the rules…someone is going to tell you that you’re doing it wrong. 🤷
 
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