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datritle
Guest
If there are a group of people in a parish who want the EF of the Mass, is a priest required to offer it?
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datritle
Guest
i’ve read summorum pontificum, but i needed clarification. yes, or no?
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Oneofthewomen
Guest
Yes, a group of the faithful can ask.
It does not mean that the answer has to be yes.
There are many things to take into account, so there is no simple answer.
Edited to add:
If you have a group who is interested, and a priest who is capable, the next step, I suppose would be talk with the Bishop’s office.
It does not mean that the answer has to be yes.
There are many things to take into account, so there is no simple answer.
Edited to add:
If you have a group who is interested, and a priest who is capable, the next step, I suppose would be talk with the Bishop’s office.
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Mrs_Sally
Guest
No, the priest can never be required to offer a Mass other than the Ordinary Form.
Should the pastor and the bishop try to accomodate a group asking in humility and for the betterment of their souls? Yes.
However, there are lots of variables beyond if the priest knows Latin which may make a request hard to accomodate.
If you are interested in the EF than ask in charity and humilty and after having prayed. Be respectful of your pastor and bishop and be patient.
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Moore11
Guest
Technically she is right. Practically there are some Bishops who refuse to offer it.
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superamazingman
Guest
In cases such as that, I would recommend sending copies of all correspondence to Rome, if the bishop refuses (or refuses, by his actions).
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Moore11
Guest
Sigh.
Nope. Of course that has been done. Rome does not override a Bishop. A Bishop has control of his flock as well as his priests and is well within his authority to instruct them not to offer it. Whatever his reason and however much we disagree.
It is so frustrating that most people do not understand that some of us live in places where we cannot have access to the EF and it is even more frustrating that they all think that all you have to do is write to Rome. There is a good thread detailing the situation well.
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=741454
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Mrs_Sally
Guest
Moore, On another thread Lomar has reminded me to pray for the SSPX (SO). I will add your intentions to those prayers. I think they go together!
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Moore11
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Yes! Thank you.
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TimothyH
Guest
No priest can be forced to provide other than what is ordinary. No individual priest is obligated to provide what is extraordinary. No diocicean priest is obligated to say the EF no matter who wants it. Any priest has the right to say no.
A priest can only celebrate mass two times per day unless he has permission from the Bishop. In a busy parish, you can’t pull a priest from a Mass with 800 people to service a group of 50. That’s unfair to the 800 who loose their Mass.
The priest has to know Latin. He cannot just recite it. He has to undersand it.
Many threads have discussed this. Check the links provided in other posts.
-Tim-
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moon1234
Guest
SP states that a Priest should accomidate them and if he is not able, then the Bishop is strongly encouraged to find someone.
There are not words that suggest it is “optional”. It suggests that is should be done. To say no is to defy the wishes of the Holy Father.
Despite what some have said here, Rome DOES trump the local Bishop in these matters. Rome HAS already brought in Priests from outside the diocese to serve people that are being refused by the local diocese.
You MUST put everything in writing and make sure you exhaust all local options before contacting Rome. Bishops do not like being on Rome’s radar. Despite what some believe some Bishops have been moved to less than desireable diocese if they are constantly on the Radar.
You goal though should be to work with your pastor and try and find a solution. See if they would be willing to allow another priest to say the EF Mass at 6pm? Many priests may be fine with this. Then you can contact the ICRSS, FSSP, etc. and request a priest to come.
There are not words that suggest it is “optional”. It suggests that is should be done. To say no is to defy the wishes of the Holy Father.
Despite what some have said here, Rome DOES trump the local Bishop in these matters. Rome HAS already brought in Priests from outside the diocese to serve people that are being refused by the local diocese.
You MUST put everything in writing and make sure you exhaust all local options before contacting Rome. Bishops do not like being on Rome’s radar. Despite what some believe some Bishops have been moved to less than desireable diocese if they are constantly on the Radar.
You goal though should be to work with your pastor and try and find a solution. See if they would be willing to allow another priest to say the EF Mass at 6pm? Many priests may be fine with this. Then you can contact the ICRSS, FSSP, etc. and request a priest to come.
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moon1234
Guest
This statement is false and has been stated so by the Ecclesia Dei commission. The priest only needs to know how to pronounce the latin. He does not need to be fluent in the language.
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superamazingman
Guest
not that i don’t believe you, but do you have the citation for that? I know some others that would really like to see that…
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moon1234
Guest
vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_commissions/ecclsdei/documents/rc_com_ecclsdei_doc_20110430_istr-universae-ecclesiae_en.html
Universae Ecclesia: 20b
b. Regarding the use of the Latin language, a basic knowledge is necessary, allowing the priest to pronounce the words correctly and understand their meaning.
There is no requirement to be fluent in Latin or a latin scholor. If a priest can pronounce Latin and can figure out what the words mean (dictonary) that is all that is required. He does not need to be able define every word from memory nor be able to hold a conversation in latin.
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Oneofthewomen
Guest
Does not this statment from UE state exactly what Tim did?
A priest must know how to pronounce the words, and have some idea of their meaning.
That said, no one has a right to the EF. One has the right to ask, but one is not guaranteed the right to have it. The law provides that a priest is not “obligated” to do anything that is “extraordinary”- therefore he needs no reason other than, “I’m sorry, I don’t want to.”
Some here may not like it, but that’s the way it is.
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TimothyH
Guest
You can’t accommodate a small group in giving them what is extraordinary by displacing what the Church has said is ordinary for a much larger group. A priest cannot simply cancel a very well attended ordinary form Mass so that a small group can attend an extraordinary form Mass. In such a case, the priest cannot accomodate it. It is not possible to accommodate it.
If the priest has 1) only celebrated one Mass that day or has permision from the Bishop to celebrate the extra Mass, and 2) there is a time slot to make it work or if the schedule can be adjusted so that it fits into the day, and 3) the priest knows Latin, then he can accommodate the EF Mass. If none of these conditions can be met, then the EF Mass cannot be accommodated. It’s that simple.
Its a question of justice. To cancel an OF Mass for 800 people so that 50 people can have the EF Mass might be an accommodation to the 50 but it is an injustice to the 800. Injustice is when you deny someone something that is theirs by right. The Church cannot deny 800 people what she herself has said they have a right to and which is ordinary in order to give 50 people what she herself has said is extraordinary. The 800 people have the right to attend an ordinary form Mass. To deny them this right is an injustice.
-Tim-
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ProVobis
Guest
Per Canon 249, all priests are supposed to be well-versed in Latin.
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Moore11
Guest
This is a common answer given to why some do not have access to an EF. But in my experience it is rarely the case. It is quite easily debunked by looking at the Masses offered that do cater to small groups. In our Parish we have:
5pm Sat. 8 AM, 10AM 1130 AM (folk mass, now how many people are really into folk music) 1PM (Spanish, ahhhh a Mass in another language) 5PM (lifeTeen, here you have a Mass that by it’s very name caters to a small population group of a 7 year range. talk about exclusive!)
Now in addition to this lets see the kinds of Masses that have been offered in our parish since there has been an EF (basque, if there ever were a more exclusive language than latin this is it…) Polish (there is not a large polish population here, I cannot think of one besides our former priest.) Portuguese, Heck, once a year we even leave the holy sanctuary to have Mass in a public park… Yet, no Latin Mass. none.
I have lived in 4 diocese and this has been the case in each of them. Though I do understand that the Diocese of Seattle offers a TLM now. Our Bishop has outsourced the Latin Mass to an FSSP parish 8 hours from the main population in a different time zone…
Priests have asked to say the latin mass but the reason given is that it would disrupt other parishes. You see, the goal is to have each parish be exactly the same so if Parish Y all of the sudden becomes conservative, parish x might lose some revenue. So at least in a 50 mile 8 parish radius every parish is stuck in the 1960s and 70s. And this goal has been achieved with stunning uniformity of folk Masses and cookie cutter liturgies.
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TimothyH
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Wait a minute…
Your post speaks first about all the different Masses which cater to small groups and then at the end you state that they are cookie cutter liturgies. Which is it, all different or cookie cutter?. I’m confused.
I thought the goal was one, stunningly uniform liturgy? Is that not the goal?
-Tim-
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